DYNAMITE BULLET?

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Topic:

Topic author: rhmc24
Subject: DYNAMITE BULLET?
Posted on: 07/02/2009 5:11:41 PM
Message:

Reading a book of histories of Oklahoma good & bad guys, mention is made of making and use of 'dynamite bullets' in which the lead of the bullet is hollowed out and filled with dynamite that exploded when the bullet struck. Does anyone know of any factual evidence of such a thing? I'm skeptical because of things in the book I know to be in error.

Some of my own background lore lends possibility of credibility. As a kid about 1930 my Dad hired a man I watched do some blasting he did cutting sticks of dynamite in quarters for small shots. Dynamite was made by nitroglycerin-soaked fullers earth rolled up in waxed paper. It looked like a dull beige-colored cheese and seemed to have similar consistency. It could easily be pushed in to a small hole. Nitro is a very unstable fluid looking like pale motor oil. I remember riding thru the oil field often being pointed out something handing on a telegraph wire, said to be part of the driver of a nitro truck that blew up there couple years before. It was a great break thru when Nobel mixed it with fullers earth to make safe-to-handle dynamite. Info and comments appreciated.

EDIT - The story had this happening in 1890s, a "dynamite bullet" impacted behind the perp's barrier, causing him to move out.
2nd EDIT - Rufus Buck gang of 5 surrounded by 3 posse groups, 'dynamite bullet' fired by posseman Shansey, captured and 5 hanged 7/01/1896, Ft. Smith AR.

Replies:

Reply author: beantownshootah
Replied on: 07/02/2009 6:05:26 PM
Message:

Historically speaking, explosive bullets have been manufactured and do exist, eg:

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/jp-explosive-bullets/index.html

I see no reason *in theory* why you couldn't manufacture one filled with dynamite (as opposed to some other explosive, for example), and given the history of pyromaniacs and gun nuts, you have to figure at some point *somebody* tried this.

Still, there are numerous practical problems here.

First of all, you can't squeeze much explosive in the typical pistol or rifle bullet.

Getting the thing to actually blow up on impact would probably require its own primer/detonator stuck in the explosive cavity as well, and that presents all sorts of safety issues with these sorts of rounds in storage and transport.

Lastly, I'd imagine the manufacture of such rounds is illegal, given laws against destructive devices and such. (Though that's not going to stop some people).

Reply author: Laredo Lefty
Replied on: 07/02/2009 7:01:45 PM
Message:

Years ago I tested exploding handgun ammo for my department, not for duty ammo but for ofcr education. If I recall they were made by "Velet".

These rounds had a hollow point bullet with an enlarged cavity filled with probably gunpowder and capped with a primer, then sealed on the tip.

They would pretty reliably POP on hard metal targets but not on soft.

Reply author: aap2
Replied on: 07/02/2009 7:07:50 PM
Message:

As Beantown states, explosive bullets are nothing new. I remember buying WW2 surplus 8mm explosive tip rounds that made a bright blue flash when they hit, I have seen 50 cal explosive bullets that were used as spotting rounds; historically Jacob Snider had a muzzle-loading rifle designed to shoot explosive bullets for blowing up ammo wagons back during the Civil War. I think that the explosive was mercury fulminate. I would not want to ram one of those down a fouled bore....

Reply author: glabray
Replied on: 07/02/2009 7:30:59 PM
Message:

When using dynamite to blow a ditch, only the first stick has a cap. The others go off from the concussion of the one a few feet away. With a bullet's impact there certainly would be enough concussion but the force of the bullet's impact might disperse the dynamite before it has a chance to go off. Let us know if it works!

Reply author: Txs
Replied on: 07/02/2009 8:25:39 PM
Message:

This seems good in theory, but for a couple of reasons doesn't work well in the real world.

It's not as if you could transform a bullet into a grenade by filling it's hollowpoint with explosive. A small arms bullet would only be capable of holding a tiny amount of explosive.

Bullets with such a small charge that's designed to detonate on impact result in shallow wounds and are actually less effective than one of standard construction.

'Exploding bullets' of different types have been around for many years but for the reasons stated remain the stuff of armchair commandos.

Reply author: quickmajik
Replied on: 07/02/2009 9:07:39 PM
Message:

Considering old dynomite was either nitro and clay or nitro and saw dust, to me atleast it would seem the sudden shock of going from static to 1100 or more fps would blow the the nitro in the bullets cavity before it left the guns barrel.

Reply author: 11b6r
Replied on: 07/02/2009 10:40:38 PM
Message:

As the folks have said- fantasy. There HAVE been several designs of exploders- Civil war used at least 2 different designs intended to be fired at artillery ammunition limbers- one had a short fuse the ignited when round fired, other had a 22 short blank inserted into the nose. Both had charge of black powder in a sizable cavity.

The old style "straight" dynamites were nitroglycerin mixed with kieselgehr (diatomaceous earth) and later with sawdust, etc. Strength varied- usually low of 40% to high of 80% nitro (that was yer ditching dynamite) Sensitivity would either be so low would not go bang except hitting a metal plate at 90 degrees, or so high would go bang on firing.

BTW, there WAS a brief period when there was an artillery piece known as a dynamite gun- Propellant powder pushed a piston that drove projectile out of gun. Projectile looked sorta like a small torpedo, was loaded with a form of dynamite. When other explosives (picric acid, TNT, etc) became available, they faded away. Navy even had one ship that main battery was 3 dynamite guns- steam propelled shell.

Reply author: Hawk Carse
Replied on: 07/02/2009 11:45:12 PM
Message:

The Gun and its Development, by W.W. Greener describes a variety of explosive rifle shells. The "detonating compound" was carefully chosen to stand the launch from a black powder express rifle, but still detonate upon impact with, say, dangerous game.

Reply author: beantownshootah
Replied on: 07/03/2009 2:43:41 PM
Message:

To address a few of the points made above, the question was about dynamite, which is a particular type of explosive made with nitroglycerin and a stabilizer (eg sawdust, diatomaceous earth, etc).

In the 19th century, there weren't so many available, but nowadays there are explosives significantly more powerful than dynamite.

So to some extent, these could overcome some of the limitations associated with small arms limited payloads. Obviously bigger rounds (eg shotgun slugs, .50 cal rounds, etc) can hold more explosive.

And to be clear, the point of explosive bullets is NOT for use against people (ordinary bullets work just fine in that application, plus are far cheaper and safer), but against hardened targets and such.

For example large caliber (ie non small arm) HEAT rounds (high-explosive anti-tank) are used to penetrate the hardened steel armor on tanks.

Reply author: partisan
Replied on: 07/03/2009 2:55:26 PM
Message:

Dynamite will NOT explode from a hard blow! There HAS to be an igniter!

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