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 7.65x51 AMMO Question

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
roybme Posted - 03/25/2010 : 01:10:05 AM
I recently picked up some 7.65x51 ammo NATO headstamped "DAG93LO406". I know that it is of German manufacture in 1993, but that is about all. The bullet is 147 a grain FMJBT with a cupronickle jacket and is highly magnetic. It supposedly has a “encapsulated DMIII bullet” whatever that means. Since cupronickle is not very magnetic, I wonder if this stuff is AP, or has a steel or iron core. Can someone clue me in to what all this means? Can I use this ammo at the local range where AP is prohibited, or do I need to dump it?
9   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
roybme Posted - 03/25/2010 : 11:48:32 PM
I received additional information from a cartridge collector friend of mine that might be helpful for anyone interested in this topic. An excerpt from his answer followes:

"It is ordinary ball ammunition. The jacket is CNCS (Cupro-nickel-clad steel). The nickel is applied to prevent the steel jacket from rusting and to provide a softer material to contact the rifling. The steel used in bullet jackets is often referred to as "mild steel" and is not very hard to begin with. There is nothing inherently wrong with a steel jacket and the U.S. Military has used plenty of them in ball ammunition over the years in times when copper prices were high or copper was needed for other applications. The word "Weichkern" in German, by the way, means "Soft Core," an additional reference to it not being AP along with the Model number of DM (Deutsche Modell) 111.

DAG usually makes a good product, and I have no reason to believe that your DAG (Dynamit Actiengesellschaft, usually written as Dynamit A.-G or simply Dynamit AG) ammo isn't good stuff. The black "ball" on your label means exactly that - Ball ammunition. It is the NATO-approved symbol. The Symbol of a circle enclosing a cross is the NATO emblem, indicating the ammunition meets NATO specification for issue to NATO troops."
SoreShoulder Posted - 03/25/2010 : 8:45:45 PM
You gotta figure machine guns will burn the barrel out before any serious wear issues arise.
heavyiron Posted - 03/25/2010 : 8:28:23 PM
Hi,

This is NATO spec ammunition and all members of NATO (which would include Germany) use the same identification system to color code their ammunition.

In other words, if this were AP ammunition, the NATO color code would be a black tipped bullet. If the ammunition you have is like the ammunition pictured above, it is NATO ammunition because the box above has the NATO symbol printed on it.

The majority of military ammunition in the world today, especially of European or Asian manufacture, use mild steel jackets instead of copper or gilding metal jackets. Copper and gilding metal have normally been too valuable for Europe and Asia to use for bullets and they have therefore, used mild steel for the bullet jacket and often, too, the cases are made from steel. We just are not used to seeing it here in the US, in military or sporting rounds.

Best,

Heavyiron
roybme Posted - 03/25/2010 : 7:32:39 PM
Yup, that is the stuff. I just hope the range doesn't give me any grief about the magnetic issue.

Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by heavyiron

Hi,

No, your bullets are not AP. They are cupronickel clad, mild steel jacketed, lead core bullets.

These are surplus and were being offered for sale by a multitude of retailers including Sportmans Guide. These were offered in 200 round battle packs and cases. The cartridge is Berdan primed and is noncorrosive. Here is a photo of what you are describing (I hope):



These cartridges were made by Dynamit Nobel of Germany - the same Nobel as in the Nobel Peace Prize and dynamite.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Heavyiron



heavyiron Posted - 03/25/2010 : 6:02:35 PM
Hi,

No, your bullets are not AP. They are cupronickel clad, mild steel jacketed, lead core bullets.

These are surplus and were being offered for sale by a multitude of retailers including Sportmans Guide. These were offered in 200 round battle packs and cases. The cartridge is Berdan primed and is noncorrosive. Here is a photo of what you are describing (I hope):



These cartridges were made by Dynamit Nobel of Germany - the same Nobel as in the Nobel Peace Prize and dynamite.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Heavyiron

nmyers Posted - 03/25/2010 : 09:29:39 AM
I can't give you a reference, but it's my understanding that there is an international agreement requiring a painted tip on non-standard military ammo. If it were AP, it would be painted (probably black).

I believe SoreShoulder is correct. Two of my local ranges now require encapsulated bullets.

Neal
SoreShoulder Posted - 03/25/2010 : 08:51:56 AM
It probably has a mild steel jacket. I don't think anyone was using cupronickel in 1993. It is probably plated with some other metal. Encapsulated probably just means there's no exposed lead base.
Mobuck Posted - 03/25/2010 : 07:40:12 AM
Don't "dump it". Send it to me, I can shoot whatever I want since I own the range.
Laredo Lefty Posted - 03/25/2010 : 01:42:00 AM
If your range does not allow AP ammo, they will not let you use it there. They will likely use the magnet test, if it sticks its a no go.

Iam not sure if it has a steel core or a steel jacket.

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