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 9mm NATO
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picwik
Starting Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2004 :  7:58:34 PM  Show Profile
This is probably a dumb question that I used to think I knew the answer to. I ran across a post that warned against the use of 9mm NATO ammunition in weapons chambered for the 9mm Luger, parabellum, 9x19 or however you wish to describe this "universal" cartridge but then could not refind the post where I posed this query. I own half a dozen boxes of 9mm BALL NATO M882 LOT WCC90-006 manufactured by OLIN Corporation. 124 GN F.M.C. On several instances at the regular local gun show I've been able to pick this "surplus brown box" ammo up for as little as $5.00 per 50 rounds. Isn't this the same round issued to the U.S. Military for use in the Beretta and Sig service pistols? For street use I carry either Cor-Bon 115 GN +P or Federal 9BPLE +P+. I Know NATO spec to be a bit hotter than standard US manufacture but is it safe in Modern, High Quality Firearms rated for +P use? I have four handguns chambered in 9mm. An early "West German Sig 226, a more modern Sig 239, an H&K P7 PSP, and an all stainless steel Kahr MK9. How does the NATO load compare to the modern +P loadings. Thanks for your thoughts on the subject.

Edited by - picwik on 05/20/2004 8:39:52 PM

Jake_S-83
Senior Member

USA
1762 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2004 :  8:27:52 PM  Show Profile
should be ok.
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D@D
Advanced Member

USA
3774 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2004 :  8:38:09 PM  Show Profile
It is not safe to use 9mm NATO in those chambered for 9mm Luger.I thought I bookmarked this site.

http://www.saami.org/unsafe3.htm

Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat

Edited by - D@D on 05/20/2004 8:45:10 PM
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bobski
Advanced Member

Vatican City
19621 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2004 :  8:45:01 PM  Show Profile
it took about 100,000 rds to destroy my first sig 226 slide rails. mine too was an early 226. i shot all milpsec ammo in it to include TZZ. i never did the suggested rebuild. i should have seen it coming. but heck, it was cheaper to buy another sig 226 than to buy new ammo for 14 years. WCC is hot but not as hot as TZZ. P.D. 147gr TC has actually less recoil than milspec. hope this helps.

former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
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Jake_S-83
Senior Member

USA
1762 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2004 :  9:08:25 PM  Show Profile
i must be thinking of something else. feel free to stick a boot up my chute.

edit-just realized what i was thinking. thought he asked if 9 luger, 9x19, 9 para were same

Edited by - Jake_S-83 on 05/20/2004 9:10:24 PM
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picwik
Starting Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2004 :  9:32:30 PM  Show Profile
I appreciate everyone's input. I go to the range (indoor) twice a week and shoot 50 rounds each session. (what I feel I need to do to maintain my level of proficiency) The cost of this ammunition is it's main attraction. I don't wish to damage my firearms but the felt recoil doesn't seem any stronger than the Cor-Bon +P. This ammunition is available on a pretty regular basis at this price. I understand that saami specs were originally based on the concept that many "war surplus" 9mms were available in the United States and are considerably lower than european standards. Any thoughts?
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chunkstyle
Advanced Member

USA
2860 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2004 :  11:48:18 PM  Show Profile
TZZ is that Israeli stuff, right?

I've shot gobs of SMG ammo and other +P out of Beretta M9's, with no ill effects. After several tens of thousands of rounds, I do have to replace the extractor, but I consider this to be routine maintenence.

Beretta says in the manual that you should limit your use of +P+ ammo, but says nothing of normal +P.

Since I have been studying Greek lately, I'll give a more direct translation of the Thermopylae Monument: "Stranger, go to Lakedaemon, and say that in agreement with their customs, we lie here."
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bobski
Advanced Member

Vatican City
19621 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2004 :  07:39:07 AM  Show Profile
nato 9mm ammo was designed to be able to function in the entire nato gun inventory worldwide. meaning...american wcc needs to be hot enough to function in a SMG used in france, or, french ball 9mm needs to work in a german sig or a turkish SMG. because so many guns have different feeding and spring tensions, making the ammo hot to function for all was the key. thus, milspec ammo is hot by american standards. early guns were not all made to handle the extra power. as time went on, gun mfg'ers made guns strong enough to handle it. (remember the flying slide era of the M9's?) hope this helps. by the way, the money i saved using nato ammo allowed me to buy that 2nd 226! it was not uncommon for me to burn 1000 rds a day where i shot.

former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
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competentone
Advanced Member

USA
4807 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2004 :  11:05:09 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by D@D

It is not safe to use 9mm NATO in those chambered for 9mm Luger.I thought I bookmarked this site.

http://www.saami.org/unsafe3.htm




The "saami/unsafe" site also says that a ".223 Remington" rifle should not use "5.56mm Military."

Most of their "unsafe" information like "don't use 7.62x39 in a 30.06," is understandable (if not a little ridiculous), but their suggestions about .223/5.45 (and the 9mm Luger/NATO) should include a detailed explanation that these are the same rounds and many--if not most--modern firearms can handle the differences in pressures without any problems.

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picwik
Starting Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2004 :  11:29:10 AM  Show Profile
Thanks for everyone's input. It pretty much boils down to what I've always believed. I feel perfectly safe shooting this ammunition in my guns now, but I also understand that while not "dangerous" it will accelerate wear. Kind of like shooting full power .357 magnum loads on a regular basis through a K Frame S&W Model 19. I've found GunBroker to be filled with knowledgeable people who share my enthusiasm and love of fine firearms and appreciate the fellowship one can find here. (Now if I can just stop spending money!)

Edited by - picwik on 05/21/2004 11:29:44 AM
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brecht
Junior Member

USA
210 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2004 :  6:20:56 PM  Show Profile
usualy whenever you have a steel frame there shouldnd be a problem.

in a world full of compromise some don't
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