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 4mm Flobert #4 Ball Ammo? What is it for?
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HobbyGuy
Advanced Member

6107 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2004 :  11:45:27 AM  Show Profile

I recently acquired 3000 rounds of Dynamit Nobel 4mm Flobert ammo. The packaging was interesting, as it came in 6 brown paper wrapped cylinders and each cylinder contained five tins of 100 rounds. I am familiar with the common 6mm Flobert cartridges, but what were these used in? I've never seen a 4mm firearm offered on GunBroker. Any information about these strange little rounds would be greatly appreciated. Are they of any value? Also, any recommendations as to obtaining a 4mm firearm would be quite helpful. Thank you.

rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15752 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2004 :  12:07:59 PM  Show Profile
4mm Auxiliary barrel that fit into a conventional 9mm/.380 pistol barrel.

Obviously single shot only, each cartridge had to be manually placed and removed from chamber.

Indoor practice round, due to difficulty loading/unloading, not very practical or popular.

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Iconoclast
Advanced Member

USA
13106 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2004 :  12:22:02 PM  Show Profile
rufe-snow's answer came as a surprise. I had always understood, that just like the 6mm, these are used in European "parlor guns" which were quite popular in days gone by for indoor shooting by the well-heeled. I may well be incorrect. There are actually two versions of the 4mm - short and long. I'm not sure if it is still being made (I know I ordered some back when I had my FFL - this was for specimen sales, not for shooting ammo), but my WAG - and truly it is pure speculation - is that the individual tins would bring $5 - $10 each. As to obtaining a firearm (or the auxiliary barrel to which rufe refers) . . . searches on this site and its rivals, along with posting "wants" in the appropriate locations should, in time, bring some to light.

"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain) ". . . And liberals / demoRats" (me)
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mazo kid
Member

USA
962 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2004 :  12:24:25 PM  Show Profile
This ammo was also used in the Zimmerschuetzen or "Parlor guns". They are full sized guns, pistol and rifle, that were shot indoors, hence the name. Would you be interested in selling some ammo? I have a rifle I got a few years ago; thought at first it was a converted muzzleloader, then realized what it was. Emery.

"Well done is better than well said"
Ben Franklin
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bobski
Advanced Member

Vatican City
19621 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2004 :  12:27:33 PM  Show Profile
i would certainly like to purchase some of that 4mm for my collection. the only gun that i knew of that shot it was a german semi auto that looked like a 25 cal pocket browning . i had the article on it but its buried in my collection of literature and cant put my hand on it. let me know if you want to share some! email me.

former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15752 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2004 :  12:45:41 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by bobski

i would certainly like to purchase some of that 4mm for my collection. the only gun that i knew of that shot it was a german semi auto that looked like a 25 cal pocket browning . i had the article on it but its buried in my collection of literature and cant put my hand on it. let me know if you want to share some! email me.

former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.




Believe the pistol your referring to "looked like a 25 cal pocket Browning" is a BLANK pistol for 4mm blanks. As these didn't have conventional bored through barrels, firing any sort of ball ammo, even the underloaded Flobert rounds, would be unhealthy.

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Iconoclast
Advanced Member

USA
13106 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2004 :  8:52:52 PM  Show Profile
OK, I did some further research and the subcal round rufe-snow described (which I'd not heard of before this) is *not* the same as the 4mm Flobert. The Flobert has a standard thin rim design, albeit the whole thing is freaking tiny. The Ubungsmunition has a sort of wide belt around the base, something like the (circa early 1860s)12mm Perrin which was used in limited numbers in the Civil War, but no rim per se.

"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain) ". . . And liberals / demoRats" (me)
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15752 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2004 :  02:01:28 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Iconoclast

OK, I did some further research and the subcal round rufe-snow described (which I'd not heard of before this) is *not* the same as the 4mm Flobert.




That makes ( 2 ) of us! I never imagined that there was so many different types of 4mm rimfire cartridges. (2) different ball cartridges, blanks and tear gas, my cups running over. Somebody could make a interesting collection of the different 4mm guns and ammo.

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brecht
Junior Member

USA
210 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2004 :  3:13:38 PM  Show Profile
I have seen barrel insets for al kinds of guns for that ammo in germany.
the 4 mm ammo is inserted in cartridgelike contratpions which can be loaded in your magazine or revolver. You are the being able to practice wherever you want since they have the energy of a pellet gun and can be safely fired at home

respect for the rights of others is peace (Benito Juarez)
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brecht
Junior Member

USA
210 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2004 :  3:16:37 PM  Show Profile
one more thing. I think lothar walter offers those barrels

respect for the rights of others is peace (Benito Juarez)
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Contender Man
Senior Member

USA
2169 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2004 :  8:08:51 PM  Show Profile
Hi and welcome to the forum.

I have a number of the 4mm guns and if you would like to know more about them, please use the email icon at the top of this reply todrop me an email as I like to tell people about them and I am always interested in a possible source of ammunition that I don't have to have special ordered.




If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!

Edited by - Contender Man on 07/19/2004 8:11:06 PM
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