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 Close cover hunt- 348, 358, 356, 444, 35rem
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salzo
Advanced Member

8068 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2004 :  3:24:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My youngest brother has gotten into hunting the past couple of years. small game and turkey, and has gone on a couple of deer hunting adventures using a borrowed rifle. I have a 3030 rifle that used to be my primary deer gun, but in the past few years it has been a back up rifle, opting to instead use a 3006 bolt action.
I am thinking of giving him my Marlin 3030. Id rather see the gun put to use-if I give him this rifle, I want to replace it with something else.
I have been reading Oconnor, and rereading Boddington-both of them seem to like the .358-Oconnor said it was the idel close cover gun, and couldnt understand why it slipped out of fashion. The 348 also received praise, as does the 35 remington, the .356, and the 444 arlin was also mentioned.
Of the calibers I have mentioned, the 35 remington and the 444 marlin seem to be the only ones that are readily available-but I dont mind waiting to find the right old or used gun. I think Browning just came out with the .358 in their lever gun. I realize that ammo will be an issue-I know winchester still makes ammo for the 356, 348, and 358-not sure if federal or remington still carries it.
So I want something that will be primaril;y for close cover, that hits harder and farther than a 3030-and that is in a lever or pump.
Anyone have experience with these cartridges? Any old guns that would be reccomended? Any new guns that I dont know about? Who made rifles in these calibers, and when?

"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man

whiteclouder
Advanced Member

13330 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2004 :  3:37:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm afraid you gave up one of the best "brush" guns made. Think more about handling than power. The 30/30 is all you need, the 35Rem and the 444 would do as well. There is no combination of rifled bullet and rifle that will compensate for shooting through wood and vines. Your efforts should be directed at getting a clear shot at a vital area of the beast.

If you must have a brush cutter, shoot a .223, I hear it's hell on trees.

Clouder..
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salzo
Advanced Member

8068 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2004 :  5:03:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The first two deer I harvested with a gun, was with a borrowed 35 remington. The thing I remember best about those kills, was how the deer dropped in their tracks-they didnt go five yards. Both of those deer got hit in both lungs, one of those deer also was also hit in the heart. I decided I liked gun hunting, got myself a 3030. Practiced a lot with it-very happy with its accuracy. First two deer I shot with that rifle-got away. When I missed those der, I didnt attribute the miss to the caliber-I thought I was right on, figured I must have hit a twig(even though I will never INTENTIONALLY hit brush-I am very careful about that)or it was a case of snot happens. But I have to admit it affected my confidence level with that rifle. Since the two misses, I killed a half dozen deer with the rifle-none have gotten away. But everytime I shot a deer with that rifle, I think about those two damn deer that I missed. Those two misses really screwd up my confidence with that particular rifle. As far as the ones that I did get with that rifle-NONE of them came close to falling the way the two did that I shot with the .35. I have never had one that did not go AT LEAST forty yards before dropping, sometimes as much as a 100. The worst placed shot was a liver shot, the rest were double lung, or double lung heart shots. Certainly it isnt bad that they go that far, nothing wrong with tracking them- BUT THE 35 DROPPED THEM! Sure it is possible that those .35 shots were the most perfectly placed shots, and I havent achieved a shot as well placed with the 3030-but the 3030 shots looked damn good to me after checking out the dead deer. 3 years ago I started usin a 3006. I have gotten two deer with that rifle, my cousin has used it and he has gotten two with that rifle. How did the deer react to being shot with that rifle-they practically dropped before the projectile left the rifle. 3 were excellent placed shots-one was back a little, but they all dropped in their tracks. Do I think the 3006 is a better deer gun? I sure do, for me at least-the most important reason, is I feel confident with it. The ONLY thing I am not crazy about, is the action- I like lever guns, but the 3006 will from now on be the first gun I grab when I go in the woods, notwithstanding the fact it is a bolt action.
I guess when you get down to it, the reason I am looking for another gun, is cause I want something different. I want something for close cover, because that is where I hunt. Will it become my primary? Probably not, but you never know.
The 3030 is certainly a good deer rifle, I do not dispute that-but with my experiences, I just do not feel as confident with it as I do with the other rifles I have killed deer with. And that isnt the 3030, its me.

"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
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bambihunter
Advanced Member

USA
9554 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2004 :  5:58:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Of those on the list I'd definately take the .444 Marlin. I used to have one and used it on countless occasions for taking deer.
However, I might add one thing. The .45-70 is probably more versatile. It has factory loads from the .444 level to the .450 Marlin level and anywhere in between so you can tailor it to the game and distance you are hunting. I have owned a .444 and really liked it, and I haven't owned a .45-70, but I do think there's something to that chambering.

Don't forget the ol' .44 mag for a close-in brush gun too. I've taken more deer with a smokepole than anything else, but the .44 mag carbine is probably next. While the range is definately limited, it is more than sufficient for the brush role, and has minimal recoil in a carbine. Of course it has even less flexibility than the .444 in the overall scheme of things.
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rong
Advanced Member

USA
5045 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2004 :  6:29:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why don't you buy your brother a 444 or 35
and keep the 3030 ??
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whiteclouder
Advanced Member

13330 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2004 :  7:28:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Salzo:

Large animals what drop in their tracks when shot do so because of shock. Deer, especially, if shot high in the lungs or through the heart suffer brain damage almost instantly because of hydrostatic shock. The bigger and faster the bullet the more the shock, one factor playing off against the other. The factory loaded 35Rem delivers more energy into the body than a factory 30/30.

I might suggest neck shots. Anywhere around the spine will put the animal on the ground where they stand. If you're young, forgo the scope and use iron sights, it'll make you a better hunter and a better shot.

You'll need the scope later.

Clouder..
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NOTPOSTAL
Junior Member

USA
290 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2004 :  7:37:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've killed deer with several different calibers, only two of them dropped deer in their tracks, .35 Rem. and 7.62x39 out of my Mini-30. The .308's, .270's, .280's all left me with short blood trails to follow, 25-50 yds, and they performed perfectly everytime but that .35 and Mini were like the finger of God. Another suggestion would be the .35 Whelen in the Remington pump, lots of short range thump but with extra reach.
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bigt7mm
Advanced Member

Christmas Island
3001 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2004 :  9:03:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Several fine choices and with correct bullet type,weight and placement,all will do the same job.

Gotta give my vote to my trusty,old Marlin 45-70. Will do everything the others will and then some. More readily available,also.
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D.S.COLE
Member

653 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2004 :  9:22:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My 2 cents worth. The 450 Marlin round is fairly new , I built one for myself on a 98 Mauser action , Ive killed a lot of deer in my lifetime with most types of weapons,handgun,shotgun,and rifles of all calibers. I shot three deer with the 450 last fall ,2 nice bucks, and Ive never seen anything compare with its instant on the ground effect on a deer.It actually picked one up and stood him on his head for second or two.None ever went anywhere.
Another plus is the factory ammo shoots so accurate that I will never reload for it. I wont say how small a group mine shoots because it will start a, thats impossible, bunch of replies.
With all its impact it still doesnt make a lot of bloodshot meat like a high velocity round will do. I hope this gives you something to consider.


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stanman
Advanced Member

USA
3757 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2004 :  10:26:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Salzo,
Of those you mentioned, I would have to go with the .444 in a Marlin lever gun.
Mostly because I LOVE mine, but also because of the variety of factory loadings available.
The original 240 gr. Rem. load will put any deer that walks this earth down in a hurry without wasting edible venison.
Some of the newer high energy loads will be adequate for anything on the North American continent.
Of course, the same is true for the 45/70,,,, but it wasn't on your short list.
If you opt for the .358, hold out for a Savage 99 in that chambering.
You'll likely pay for it, but when you decide you're tired of it, you can sell it to me,,, CHEAP!

Sound like a plan???




"It's not the child that needs killin'!"
Rob Roy
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