GunBroker.com Message Forums
Review our Posting Guidelines
GunBroker.com Message Forums
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?   Trouble / Can't log in?

 All Forums
 GunBroker.com Message Forums
 Ask the Experts
 Shipping ammo resouces
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

quatama
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 06/29/2005 :  4:34:13 PM  Show Profile
I decided to start this thread because of misinformation and disinformation propagated by carriers and well meaning forum writers

For example;

I contacted UPS hub in Tualatin, Oregon (800 742-5877) today and asked about shipping ammo. My call was escalated (immediately) to the supervisor. She made claims that I needed a DOT hazmat identifier and a common carrier license.

I doubt event she knew what she was talking about (my opinion).

-----------------------------------------------

Below is a list of US government websites

Anything to do with transporting hazardous material (federal)… http://hazmat.dot.gov/
Transporting ammunition on an aircraft (federal) … http://ash.faa.gov/docs/HAZMATByPassenger.pdf
Transporting firearms on an aircraft (federal) … http://ash.faa.gov/these.asp
Transportation security arm of Homeland Security … http://www.tsa.gov/public/
DOT Identification number for ammo … http://hazmat.dot.gov/pubs/erg/2001.htm
DOT how to deal with ammo fires … http://hazmat.dot.gov/pubs/erg2/en/2000/g151.pdf
USPS “ammo isn’t mailable” … http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1103548
(paragraph 8.5 and 8.6 covers ammo)

------------------------------------------------

UPS Hazmat toll free number … 1-800-554-9964
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/hazardous/examples/ground_ormd.html

UPS says the box must have written on the outside “consumer commodity”, “cartridges, small arms” and the ORM-D plaque (it’s not necessary to have consumer commodity on the label pursuant to 49CFR 173.63 )

(Fedex web link of an ORM-D plaque “cartridges, small arms” http://www.fedex.com/images/us/services/options/ground/hazmat/ORM-D_Boxes.jpg)


------------------------------------------------

Fedex uses the same standards as UPS
Fexex hazardous shipping number is 1.800.GoFedEx (1.800.463.3339) and press 81.

http://www.fedex.com/us/services/options/ground/hazmat/marking.html

Iconoclast
Advanced Member

USA
13106 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2005 :  2:02:21 PM  Show Profile
quatama, I've been shipping ammo for the best part of thirty years. You are correct - the supervisor was reading off the part of her brain where she had the lobotomy. The fact is that both the common carriers allow their carriers (drivers) and terminals a lot of slack . . . consequently, ignorance, if not outright lies, about the requirements, etc., is rife at the local level. I had a terminal manager whom I knew personally tell me that shipping ammo by common carrier was prohibited by DoT regs in the absence of HazMat labeling (this after using the same carrier and terminal for twenty-five years!), quoting from some memo he purported to have, but never showed me. Even when provided with a copy of policy from corporate HQ and a copy of DoT regs, he refused to accept my shipments and HQ would not act on my behalf to over-rule him. I dropped him from the Christmas card list and switched to the other carrier. In my new locale, I've had no problems with the original carrier after the initial hoplophobic shock by counter personnel. From my clients I've heard the exact opposite scenario, that "A" was fine while "B" thought the shipper the next Unibomber / Atta crazy. Blame it on the lying opportunist left wing media and politicos, of which we have far too many.

I'm not sure to what "misinformation and disinformation propagated by . . . well meaning forum writers" you refer, but both EOD Guy and I have posted the correct information on innumberable threads. This topic has been raised so often over the past 5.8 years, I even built a C&P answer for the reply post. If you do a search and find where we are in error, please let us know.

"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain)
Go to Top of Page

quatama
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2005 :  6:11:08 PM  Show Profile
Sorry about any confusion regarding "misinformation and disinformation propagated by . . . well meaning forum writers”. I have received email from two members who were confused. It wasn't my intent to 'bad mouth' or put down any individual.

My sole purpose was trying to get the message out about shipping ammo and enlighten or educate those who need this kind of information.


Go to Top of Page

chappsyny
Advanced Member

USA
3539 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2005 :  6:23:56 PM  Show Profile
The one time I shipped ammo through the UPS I printed off a copy of their rules about shipping ammo. It turned out I didn't need it, but I was prepared if I ran into a clerk who didn't know about their own regs. It might help you out next time.

Go to Top of Page

EOD Guy
Senior Member

1017 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2005 :  12:59:39 PM  Show Profile
Here again, is an extract of the DOT regulations concerning shipment of small arms ammunition.

Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, Part 173

173.63 Packaging exceptions

(b) Cartridges, small arms, and cartridges power devices. (1) Cartridges, small arms and cartridges power devices (which are used to project fastening devices) which have been classed as a Division 1.4S explosive may be reclassed, offered for transportation, and transported as ORM-D material when packaged in accordance with paragraph (b)(2) of this section; such transportation is excepted from the requirements of subparts E (Labeling) and F (Placarding) of part 172 of this subchapter. Cartridges, small arms, and cartridges power devices that may be shipped as ORM-D material is limited to:

(i) Ammunition for rifle, pistol, or shotgun;
(ii) Ammunition with inert projectiles or blank ammunition;
(iii) Ammunition having no tear gas, incendiary, or detonating explosive projectiles;
(iv) Ammunition not exceeding 12.7 mm (50 caliber or 0.5 inch) for rifle or pistol, cartridges or 8 gauge for shotshells; and
(v) Cartridges power devices which are use to project fastening devices.

(2) Packaging for cartridges, small arms, and cartridges power devices as ORM-D material must be as follows:
(i) Ammunition must be packed in inside boxes, or in partitions which fit snugly in the outside packaging, or in metal clips;
(ii) Primers must be protected from accidental initiation;
(iii) Inside boxes, partitions or metal clips must be packed in securely-closed strong outside packagings;
(iv) Maximum gross weight is limited to 30 Kg (66 pounds) per package; and
(v) Cartridges, power devices which are used to project fastening devices and 22 caliber rim-fire cartridges may be packaged loose in strong outside packagings.

Part 172 (Marking)

172.316 Packagings containing material classed as ORM-D

(a) Each non-bulk packaging containing a material classed as ORM-D must be marked on at least one side or end with the ORM-D designation immediately following or below the proper shipping name of the material (Cartridges, Small Arms). The ORM designation must be placed within a rectangle that is approximately 6.3 mm (0.25 inches) larger on each side than the designation.

(b) The marking ORM-D is the certification by the person offering the packaging for transportation that the material is properly described, classed, packaged, marked and labeled (when appropriate) and in proper condition for transportation according to the applicable regulations of this subchapter.
Go to Top of Page

Dean Cascio
Senior Member

USA
1968 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2005 :  01:59:10 AM  Show Profile
I've always found that the best way to ship ammo is to not say anything, and just hand it over to the guy behind the counter.
Dean

If they don't trust us with guns, how can we trust them with the government?
Go to Top of Page

MN Hunter
Senior Member

1877 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2005 :  07:47:38 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Dean Cascio

I've always found that the best way to ship ammo is to not say anything, and just hand it over to the guy behind the counter.
Dean

If they don't trust us with guns, how can we trust them with the government?



exactly. "anything parishable, breakable, flammable, etc etc." "nope" "ok then, we have priority for $$ or express for $$" "ahh ill just do the priority" "do you need insurance" "nope, here you go, thank you have a nice day"

PS; not that ive had that conversation before




"Not many like us, in fact very few, and most of them are dead" LtCol Pratt - USMC
Go to Top of Page

EOD Guy
Senior Member

1017 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2005 :  10:05:29 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Dean Cascio

I've always found that the best way to ship ammo is to not say anything, and just hand it over to the guy behind the counter.
Dean

If they don't trust us with guns, how can we trust them with the government?



If you do that, you are shipping what DOT calls an undeclared hazmat shipment. The minimum civil fine for that is $15,000 and that doesn't include any criminal penalties. DOT takes such violations very seriously. Accidents involving undeclared shipments have resulted in loss of life and in jail time for those responsible for the shipment.

I've talked with a lot of DOT inspectors and they consider offering an undeclared shipment one of the most serious violations of DOT regulations and one in which prosecution would be recommended every time.

Edited by - EOD Guy on 07/03/2005 10:09:51 AM
Go to Top of Page

Iconoclast
Advanced Member

USA
13106 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2005 :  10:07:35 AM  Show Profile
Dean / MN, take a look at the penalties for shipping live ammo via USPS if you should be caught . . . .

I won't say I've never *received* any such packages, but I'm here to tell you I would never *think* of shipping any that way!!!!!! UPS / FedEx can be royal PITAs who overcharge, but that cost is not even a blip on the long range scanners compared to a Federal felony / fine and a possible introduction to Bubba in Cell Block A. If I'm going to break the law, it sure as heck won't be to save $5 on shipping.

"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain)
Go to Top of Page

Dean Cascio
Senior Member

USA
1968 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2005 :  10:41:20 AM  Show Profile
Iconoclast
Yes you're right.
Dean


quote:
Originally posted by Iconoclast

Dean / MN, take a look at the penalties for shipping live ammo via USPS if you should be caught . . . .

I won't say I've never *received* any such packages, but I'm here to tell you I would never *think* of shipping any that way!!!!!! UPS / FedEx can be royal PITAs who overcharge, but that cost is not even a blip on the long range scanners compared to a Federal felony / fine and a possible introduction to Bubba in Cell Block A. If I'm going to break the law, it sure as heck won't be to save $5 on shipping.

"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain)



If they don't trust us with guns, how can we trust them with the government?
Go to Top of Page

CS8161
Advanced Member

USA
13990 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2005 :  11:15:54 AM  Show Profile
Anyonw know where you can obtain the ORM-D stickers?

Chris8161
Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof!
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
GunBroker.com Message Forums © 1999-2014 GB Investments, Inc. All Rights Reserved Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06


Visit GunBroker.com at: www.gunbroker.com
Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the site's User Agreement
Site Map