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 .38 S&W Special CTG
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tony1979
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2005 :  3:52:08 PM  Show Profile
I am trying to find out when my grandfather's gun was made. It is a .38 S&W Special CTG. The serial number on the bottom of the grip is 313312. The number on the inside of the frame is 13481. Nickel-plated with a wooden-checkered grip which has a diamond shape with screw through the middle, and the logo at top of grip on either side. The other markings are on the barrel. It says smith and wesson on the left side and .38 S&W Special CTG on the right side. And on the top of the barrel are the patent dates October 8,1901...December 17,1901..Feb.6,1906..Sept 14,1909...Dec 29,1914 It would be great to have any information on this gun and also the approximate value of the gun. Thanks, Tony1979

rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15719 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2005 :  5:20:31 PM  Show Profile
It seems per the S & W Book, that your Grandfathers revolver is a ".38 Military & Police Model of 1905", ( 4th change ). Over 3/4 of a million of these revolvers were manufactured by S & W, between W W I & W W II. Your particular revolver is in the lower serial range and was probably? made no later then the mid 1920's.

As far as value is concerned, it would be best if you could post some quality pictures. We would be more able to provide a approximate value with them.

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2hms
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2006 :  10:08:20 PM  Show Profile
I have a handgun with the exact same markings and pattent numbers... the serial # is 370996, and the number on the inside of the frame is 30482. Would you say that my handgun was made around the same time tony's was?


Chad H.
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MN_Jack76
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2007 :  08:46:24 AM  Show Profile
Hello, I also have a .38 S&W special CTG with almost identical patent markings and serial# 50440. It was bought for Polar bear self defense on an Alaskan military base, where they would only allow people outside the base on foot with a .357 or higher sidearm. I was told the chambers were bored out by a gunsmith to accept .357 rounds. I have fired many .357 rounds through it, but I was wondering if this is safe? Did all S&W .38 accept .357 rounds or was mine really altered to do so? Is this model strong enough to withstand repeated .357 firings?
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nmyers
Advanced Member

12564 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2007 :  09:23:20 AM  Show Profile
Let's clarify one thing first. No one has a gun called a ".38 S&W Special CTG"; that's just the type of ammunition that your guns were designed to fire. Saying that is like me saying that the car I drive is a "Use leaded fuel only", & that would be misleading.

Based on the information Tony gave, we know that he has a "Smith & Wesson revolver". And, it sounds like Chad has the same thing.

Jack probably has the same gun too, but photos would allow us to be sure. However, with only a few exceptions, it is UNSAFE to fire .357 magnum ammo in a gun that has been converted from .38 special. Jack, I would not fire that gun again (even with .38 specials) without first getting it checked out by a gunsmith; it may already have been damaged beyond repair (& safety).

Neal

ADDED: Instructions for posting photos can be found on a sticky near the top of the first page of this forum

Over the years, there have been many cheaply made knock-offs of S&W revolvers that had the ".38 S&W special CTG" legend stamped on the barrel. Some folks were fooled by this into thinking they had a real S&W.

Edited by - nmyers on 09/01/2007 1:18:34 PM
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MN_Jack76
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2007 :  10:00:05 AM  Show Profile
Thank you NMYERS for your quick response and I apologize for being a bit of a blockhead when it comes to this. The gun is a Smith & Wesson, It's marked on the left side of the barrel, below the cylinder release, and on a gold circle at the top of the grip. I was told by an old aircraft mechanic friend of mine (that gave me the gun) that he had a family friend who was a gunsmith back in the continental U.S. He didn't have a S&W .357 at his store at the time but had this gun he could safely convert to a .357 and ship to him to the base. I understand the large pressure differences between the .38 special and the .357 and understand the safety problems. What I guess I'm looking for is an explanation why he felt this gun was "safe" to convert? Does this gun have the frame to support the hotter .357 or was this a goofball gunsmith?? The top of the barrel is inscribed with 'Smith&Wesson Springfeild MASS U.S.A.' under that is 'Patented Feb.6.06.Sept.14.09.Dec.29.14' Below the cylinder release is the S&W circle that says trade mark around it, the top of the grips have a round golden looking S&W emblem, it says Made in the U.S.A. between the front of the trigger guard and cylinders on the right side and the serial number on the butt is 50440

I would like to thank you for any help you can give me - Jack
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john carr
Member

960 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2007 :  10:42:32 AM  Show Profile
Let me state that I know absolutely nothing about S&W serial numbers. That being said, is there a chance that Jack's revolver could be one of the Outdoorsman models built on the .44 frame and probably would be able to handle the .357 pressures?
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MN_Jack76
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2007 :  10:53:15 AM  Show Profile
Thank you John, I also have read about the .44 frame .38 specials, I'm just not sure if I have one. I guess I'd feel better (and so would my right hand) if I knew.


quote:
Originally posted by john carr

Let me state that I know absolutely nothing about S&W serial numbers. That being said, is there a chance that Jack's revolver could be one of the Outdoorsman models built on the .44 frame and probably would be able to handle the .357 pressures?

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MN_Jack76
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2007 :  11:52:56 AM  Show Profile
[size=3]Anyone with any info on above S&W question?[/size=3]
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Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

3475 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2007 :  12:05:23 PM  Show Profile
I would not shoot .357 Magnum in a rechambered .38 Special even if it were a N framed Heavy Duty or Outdoorsman. The N cylinders are bigger with thicker walls, but they were not heat treated for extra strength as the real Magnums were.

If the chambers were "jugged" from being shot with nearly double the pressure they were made for, then extraction of empties of any caliber would be difficult. If the frame were stretched badly, it would cause a lot of "spitting" from an enlarged gap and would eventually lead to misfires as the headspace got greater than the firing pin protrusion.

Finding a knowledgeable gunsmith to see how badly your gun is worn or damaged might be a good trick. One of our club members was lucky, the store gunsmith where he dealt was a refugee from repressive gun laws in California and really knew his stuff.

If you put up a picture, somebody here could probably identify the frame series by appearance.

By the way, guys, CTG is just the abbreviation for Cartridge. Why S&W puts it so big and bold I don't know, but it confuses the dickens out of people looking closely at one for the first time.


Edited by - Hawk Carse on 09/01/2007 12:08:26 PM
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MN_Jack76
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2007 :  12:40:30 PM  Show Profile
Thank you for your help, I'm curious what "Jugging" is and how do I post a pic on this site? In the meantime I think I'll stop firing .357 rounds and have the gun checked out.



quote:
Originally posted by Hawk Carse

I would not shoot .357 Magnum in a rechambered .38 Special even if it were a N framed Heavy Duty or Outdoorsman. The N cylinders are bigger with thicker walls, but they were not heat treated for extra strength as the real Magnums were.

If the chambers were "jugged" from being shot with nearly double the pressure they were made for, then extraction of empties of any caliber would be difficult. If the frame were stretched badly, it would cause a lot of "spitting" from an enlarged gap and would eventually lead to misfires as the headspace got greater than the firing pin protrusion.

Finding a knowledgeable gunsmith to see how badly your gun is worn or damaged might be a good trick. One of our club members was lucky, the store gunsmith where he dealt was a refugee from repressive gun laws in California and really knew his stuff.

If you put up a picture, somebody here could probably identify the frame series by appearance.

By the way, guys, CTG is just the abbreviation for Cartridge. Why S&W puts it so big and bold I don't know, but it confuses the dickens out of people looking closely at one for the first time.



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gskyhawk
Advanced Member

USA
5243 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2007 :  2:55:10 PM  Show Profile
read the 2nd post at the top of this page
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