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 Spanish 1916 Mausers In .308
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gunpaq
Advanced Member

4526 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2005 :  12:12:03 PM  Show Profile
Ok, I see lots of these available and advertised to C&R holders.

Are these rifles safe to use with modern "factory" hunting ammunition?

How are their accuracy, etc.?

Are they good candidates for sporterizing?

Thanks.


Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.

richbug
Advanced Member

3544 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2005 :  12:43:53 PM  Show Profile
I purchased one a while back. when I got it home it closed on a go, and not on a no-go gauge which is good. I did fire only factory winchester hunting ammo through it. after 60 rounds it started not setting off the ammo reliably. I checked it again, and it closed on a field gauge. I then tried using scotch tape on my field ga. it would close on 3 pieces of tape plus the field gauge. this means that the bolt set back over .012 inches over just 60 rounds of ammo. I destroyed the rifle to keep it out of the hands of someone who might not know better than to shoot it.

Don't waste your time trying to sporterize it, accuracy was OK, 3-4" at 100.

.
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ern98
Senior Member

1821 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2005 :  2:23:25 PM  Show Profile
The 1916 Spanish, available in 7.62x51nato, is based on the old small ring Mauser action. Some small ring actions, like the Swedish M96, are really great actions, while others are not. In general the 1916 is somewhere in between and while the Spanish military decided to convert large numbers of the rifle to 7.62x51nato it probably is really pushing the abilities of that action. They are at their best when in calibers like the 6.5x55, 7x57, 257roberts, 6mmRem that have max pressures of that level. If the spirt moves you and you buy one, do as advised above and get the guages to monitor the headspace. Excessive headspace can create very dangerous conditions where the lack of the third locking lug on the bolt is to be mourned.
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Tailgunner1954
Advanced Member

7226 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2005 :  4:13:02 PM  Show Profile
There NOT 308Win or 7.62NATO rifles. They are 7.62CTME which while the same physical size/shape as the others, is loaded to much lower pressure/velocity (50,000psi vs 60,000psi for the 308Win)


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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Wehrmacht_45
Advanced Member

3231 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2005 :  5:04:32 PM  Show Profile
Surplusrifle.com had a nice article about a conversion kit that was like 35 bucks in which you could take one of these in 7.62 and convert it to the soviet 7.62x39 round. The kits use a chamber adapter that anyone can put in, and they show you where to buy a magazine follower so that you can shoot it cheaply and safe as if it where built that way. I used one on my Mas 36 rifle and it shoots like a dream. I just had to rig an ak mag follower and spring out of the 10 round clips to get it to work right.
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Mobuck
Advanced Member

7507 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2005 :  9:03:07 PM  Show Profile
the 7.62 cetme used a lighter bullet and lower velocity about 115 grains at 2400 fps or similiar. I have used these rifles for years by using only starting loads that run 40000-44000 units of pressure. This is in like new rifles and haven't had any problems. I've also gotten several that had obviously been fired quite a bit that were ok but could not know what loading was used in them. Right off hand I can't recall when the cetme round was dropped.

Mobuck<BR>
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nononsense
Moderator

8980 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2005 :  11:44:00 AM  Show Profile
gunpaq,

I'm going to attempt to straighten out this mess a bit so that you get the right and true information regarding the Spanish Mauser Model 1916. This Mauser can also go by the names 93, 95, Civil Guardia and FR-7.

Design:

The Spanish Mauser 1916 was designed and manufactured for the most part in Germany by Mauser and Ludwig Lowe. Later manufacturing was handled by German contractors in Spain and finally by the Spanish arsenals. There is no strength or metallurgical difference between the manufacturers, they are equal. The only differences between Spanish-made and German-made is reflected in the metal finishing and slightly in the fitting.

The Spanish Mauser 1916 was originally chambered for the 7x57 Mauser as the Model 1893. The 1916 designation (M93) is a Small Ring Mauser which did not have the gas shroud, the bolt sleeve lock and the third lug, features that we're familiar with in the Model 98.

Ammunition:

The original chambering in 7x57 had a pressure ceiling of 46,000 CUP and was proof tested significantly above that for the safety factor. Reloading manuals still refer to two levels of pressure when loading for the 7x57 Mauser, the lower for the 1916 and the more modern, higher pressure reserved for M98's and later modern receivers. Spain re-barreled most of the 1916's in the '50's to the 7.62Nato cartridge, staying in step with the cross utilization of the Nato forces around the world.

Here is the confusion about this chamber and ammunition.

The Model 1916 was NEVER chambered for the 7.62CETME. This cartridge was only chambered in the CETME Model A and B assault rifles, not the bolt rifles. The Model 1916 was re-barreled for the 7.62NATO with M80 Ball only. This cartridge had a pressure ceiling of 50,000 PSI.

This is the kicker.

The .308 Winchester commercial hunting loads are NOT the same as the 7.62NATO loads. The commercial loads have an upper limit of 60,200 PSI or roughly 10,000 PSI HIGHER than the 7.62NATO loads. The biggest problem that shooters run into with these designations is that nearly every country in the world has manufactured 7.62NATO ammunition and it is not always consistant. We have all seen and shot 7.62NATO ammunition that is incredibly hot. That's why military chambers are cut slightly oversize so as to accommodate the varying pressures of NATO ammunition. The Mausers will handle the rare attempt to use the higher pressure .308 Win. but it should not be subjected to continuous usage. DO Not use commercial .308 Win. ammunition in a Model 1916 Mauser. If you shoot reloads, maintain your pressure level at 46,000 PSI upper level. This answers richbug's problem which is ammunition related and not quality related to the 1916.

Two more things to clear up:

Using 6mm Remington ammunition in a 1916 is NOT recommended since the factory loads run at 62,300 PSI which is significantly over pressured for the 1916.

Most of the bolt action rifles in the world have been manufactured without the third lug. Virtually all of the modern rifles have only two lugs. Yes, there are a couple of exceptions, I'm talking about the majority. The third lug does not bear or come into contact with the receiver ever... unless there is a case of absolute catastrophic failure. Then it acts to prevent the bolt from leaving the receiver. Using the excuse of no third lug to say a receiver is weak is pure unadulterated garbage. Yes it's a great safety factor but receivers lacking a third lug are not necessarily weak.

Yes, I am a Mauser fanatic. I study them and work with them on a daily basis. This is not just more internet disinformation. If you have doubts, do some research, even if it's only using the internet but use good sources.

The 1916 will be a fine general purpose rifle if you avoid using high pressure or incorrect ammunition. Mild sporterizing is perfectly acceptable just don't get carried away unless you're doing the work yourself. It can get expensive.

I apologize for the length but some corrections were needed.

Best.



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wipala
Advanced Member

7088 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2005 :  2:35:26 PM  Show Profile
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm



How about using the 7.62x39 in the 308 or 30-06?
Or the 308 in the 30-06?

As gun writer Roy Huntington said: "Duh...this was so obvious and simple."

Now you can turn your 308 or 30-06 into a 7.62x39 and take advantage of inexpensive ammo!

Simply coat the the outside of the adapter with non permanent Locktite™, place a fired 7.62x39 case inside the chamber and close the bolt. After 10-12 hours, eject the 7.62x39 case and you are ready to start shooting. Inexpensive Russian ammo costs 25-50% less than any regular 308 or 30-06. A broken shell extractor will remove the adapter and return the gun to it's original caliber. If you are careful, the adapter is reusable!

Also available in 308/30-06. Each kit includes one tube of Locktite™.

Complete kit: only $25.00. Broken shell extractors: $10.00




To order E-Mail us!
You can also order by calling or writing us at:
MCA Sports/Ace Bullet Company
2800 West 33rd Road
Anchorage, Alaska 99517-2201
(907) 248-4913



“When you choose the lesser of two evils, always remember that it is still an evil.”
— Max Lerner


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MIKE WISKEY
Advanced Member

7956 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2005 :  4:18:02 PM  Show Profile
these adapters work most of the time and the freebore (measured in inches) helps to reduce pressures. I wouldn.t recomend them in an auto loader as the adapter could be ejected with a spent shell (heat softens lock-tite). also you may have trouble with a .308 in an /06 as the /06 has more body taper (mil. spec. chambers are probably ok but commercial's are tighter).

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Irish51
Starting Member

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2013 :  11:45:24 PM  Show Profile
Question : I recently purchased a Spanish 1916 barreled receiver. The bore is in great shape. No bolt or trigger came with the barreled receiver. I had what I thought was a Mauser 95 bolt and had assumed that it would fit the 1916 Spanish Mauser, however I discovered that is not the case. Am I correct in assuming that a 93 bolt with the flat bottom bolt head will fit/work in a 1916 Spanish receiver ? ...From what I have read, the 1893 was converted into the shorter barreled 1916 Mauser, so I assume the bolt for the 93 will work/fit the 1916 Spanish rifle. Any feedback will be appreciated. I plan on using the barreled receiver to build a 7X57 scout rifle as my truck gun. Thanks for any help you can give me...Irish51
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TRAP55
Advanced Member

USA
6337 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2013 :  01:46:48 AM  Show Profile
Yes, you need a '93 bolt, and you will have to check the head space.


"Aim small, Miss small"
www.mausercentral.com
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kannoneer
Senior Member

USA
1097 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2013 :  02:14:18 AM  Show Profile
I bought a 1916 Spanish Mauser in .308 about 25 or 30 years ago out of Shotgun News. I reload and keep the pressure below 45,000 c.u.p., usually around 40,000 and it makes this rifle equal to a 30/30. I have fired about a thousand rounds through it. It won't win any beauty contests and shoots 4" groups at 100 meters. I am satisfied with it.
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