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 helwan brigadier/maadi cadet
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ameriskin
Senior Member

USA
1785 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2002 :  10:02:59 PM  Show Profile
hey guys, can anyone tell me if these clones are worth checking into? i see them for auction now and again, and i like that style of pistol. oh yeah, i'm trading that high point 45(that i was bitchin about) and a jennings 380 for a taurus pt92 with 2 20 round mags! how do you like that? lol. well if anyone has any usefull(or just rambling) info on these guns let me know. i'd hate to get one and it be total crap. cody

Der Gebirgsjager
Senior Member

2123 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2002 :  11:12:26 PM  Show Profile
I've refinished a couple, but have repaired none. They are a less-well finished version of the Beretta 1951, or M951, or Brigadier, or whatever you want to call it; which was the official pistol of Italy and Israel for a number of years, and Egypt liked them so much they obtained a license to make their own. In their price range, I believe that they're one of the better 9mm pistols. In fact, the only one that comes to mind that was comparably priced and about as good for the money, and which is no longer imported, was the Chinese Tokarev. If I was buying one, top dollar for me would be about $125.
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lrarmsx
Senior Member

1733 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2002 :  11:14:14 PM  Show Profile
Unfortunately these guns have been known to have locking block problems. They mash, break, gaul, etc. I once thought they were a decent gun, but time has proven them to leave a lot to be desired. I have known a least a half dozen people who have had problems with them. That is not to say that I don't know people who like them, I do. It is just that a number of the people who used to like them are looking for replacement parts now (locking blocks, barrels, slides, etc) and finding them expensive. Fixing them can run as much as a whole new gun. For those who have them and like them, I commend you. Then again how much have you shot throught them? Over time, like I said, they have proven to fail after not all that much use.
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leeblackman
Advanced Member

5534 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2002 :  11:11:31 AM  Show Profile
I don't know about the maadi cadet, but I had custody of a buds helwan for a little while, and I can tell you that they are junk. The metal they are made out of is soft, and the magazines are junk too. If you want one, get the real beretta 951, they are alot better quality. If I had a choice between a helwan and a hi point I would take the hi point anyday. The hi point is a heck of a lot better built pistol than the helwan.

Visit me http://www.geocities.com/gunsmithlee
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ameriskin
Senior Member

USA
1785 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2002 :  4:54:32 PM  Show Profile
thanks alot guys. i will be avoiding them. i can't wait to get my taurus! i've never had a problem with them, and i've shot these quite abit, so i know what i'm getting. cody

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thunderbolt
Advanced Member

4282 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2002 :  09:56:33 AM  Show Profile
The original military Helwans were decent guns. Sometimes one out of the box would require a little breaking in, but most I've handled were good shooters on a par with common surplus military guns.
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leeblackman
Advanced Member

5534 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2002 :  11:54:01 AM  Show Profile
quote:

The original military Helwans were decent guns. Sometimes one out of the box would require a little breaking in, but most I've handled were good shooters on a par with common surplus military guns.



Define decent. I'd say it would be decent if you were the kind of person who only shot twice a year, and only shot a box of rounds on that occasion, and kept the thing heavily oiled when it was stored.

But not decent if you are like me and shoot.

I could have one of them things broke in a month, oh wait, I did....

Visit me http://www.geocities.com/gunsmithlee
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thunderbolt
Advanced Member

4282 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2002 :  12:52:54 PM  Show Profile
By decent I mean the gun was worth the asking price compared to other surplus guns available at the time. At the time it had 250 rounds through it. Yes Lee, I'm sure you and and any idiot who wants to break a gun can find a way to do it.
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leeblackman
Advanced Member

5534 Posts

Posted - 05/02/2002 :  1:49:35 PM  Show Profile
I'm sorry but for the price one could get a Makarov, which is a hell of alot better gun than a helwan, will last longer, is more accurate, more reliable, better fit and finish. Sorry if I'm an idiot for knowing what I talk about.

Visit me http://www.geocities.com/gunsmithlee
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thunderbolt
Advanced Member

4282 Posts

Posted - 05/02/2002 :  11:34:19 PM  Show Profile
When it comes to breaking guns, I'm sure you are an expert,Lee. As to
accuracy, the Helwan outclasses the Makarov with a longer barrel, a lighter and smoother single action trigger and a more potent cartridge. The Mak is strong and cheap and that's about it.
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leeblackman
Advanced Member

5534 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2002 :  06:07:00 AM  Show Profile
Bull, I shot both. The Helwan is a junk gun, I'd rather own a Hi-Point. I know for a fact the Russian, and Belgium Makarov will perform a Helwan.

I actually have a little collection of saturday night specials and other junk guns, and I do have a tendency to shoot them til they break. Its kinda like a hobby.

Visit me http://www.geocities.com/gunsmithlee
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thunderbolt
Advanced Member

4282 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2002 :  10:11:41 AM  Show Profile
Lee, please look at the facts. The Helwan has a 4.53" barrel, a smooth, light (compared to the Makarov) single action trigger and is chambered for the more powerful 9mm cartridge. The Makarov has a 3.58" barrel with a heavy, gritty double action trigger and shoots the 9x18 cartridge. Maybe the heavier kick of the 9mm is throwing you off, but in side by side shooting the Helwan has the advantage with it's longer sighting plane and better trigger. Factor in a superior cartridge and the Helwan is the winner. I like Maks. Helwans are not my favorite military guns, but they are reasonably priced 9mm pistols and those I've owned have been good guns. By the way, you might want to get some back issues of Gun Tests and review
what the Mak can actually do.
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