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 Wildcat 12GA From Hell.--
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  11:41:19 AM  Show Profile
I just got a super shotgun done,that shoots the real
fast sabots I mentioned in the sabot thread below..
We used a Savage 210 bolt action with heavy barrel and
stock.Brass cases are real long and we made them by putting
12ga size rims on BMG brass and straightening cases.Here is
picture of our case next to regular 12ga plastic.And our
chamber will also fire thw regular shells.Ed



Ed Hubel

temblor
Senior Member

2295 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  12:40:22 PM  Show Profile
Cool...........are there Cape Buffalo in your area..
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  5:47:53 PM  Show Profile
Temblor--Rob,John and I over on AR forum developed
cartridge,Rob and John used big Borchardt falling
block action and Rob plans on going after a Buffalo with it..
Here is pic of his gun.Ed.



Ed Hubel
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temblor
Senior Member

2295 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  6:05:18 PM  Show Profile
Interesting weapons.......good work guys........best regards...
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Tailgunner1954
Advanced Member

7656 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  6:05:25 PM  Show Profile
Temblor
I've fired Ed's rifle, and it would be ideal if the Amish in our area decide to revolt It also would work for taking down a whole herd of cats deer with one shot

Of course if you want to be technical, you don't need anything bigger than a 30-30 for anything this side of Africa dangerious game

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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temblor
Senior Member

2295 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  6:12:19 PM  Show Profile
Tailgunner: I think if the truth be known, after about five or six guns we have everything we need covered. After that it's all about what we want (and that's what makes it fun ) .........best..........
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Tailgunner1954
Advanced Member

7656 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  8:08:22 PM  Show Profile


As I tell the wife, I always need "just" one more gun

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Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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DaBowMan18
Advanced Member

USA
3935 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  10:03:33 PM  Show Profile
oooooo. coool
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Warbirds
Advanced Member

USA
12917 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2006 :  12:55:25 PM  Show Profile
I have alot of respect for what you have done and the work you put into it. Nice job.

"I couldn't possibly care less. Im actually trying to care less and just can't get there." - Kevd18
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zipperzap
Advanced Member

31626 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2006 :  1:03:13 PM  Show Profile
Jeeze, Louise, hubel458!

Is that thing mounted on wheels!??



http://www.tropicalglen.com/
http://tiny.cc/gzz78

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2006 :  8:44:26 PM  Show Profile
zipperzap--It is just well balanced and points nice.
And the weight really makes it nice to shoot.
Here is picture of mine built on the savage 210
bolt action.Ed.


Ed Hubel

Edited by - hubel458 on 01/30/2006 8:48:11 PM
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FrancF
Moderator

USA
34950 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2006 :  8:56:25 PM  Show Profile
Nice Job!

That brusier looks like it gonna leave a mark.

GunBroker.com Moderator

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Edited by - FrancF on 02/02/2006 8:57:22 PM
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Tailgunner1954
Advanced Member

7656 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2006 :  10:07:42 PM  Show Profile
FrancF
Let's just say you won't be wondering if it went off when you pulled the trigger. If you know HOW to shoot a boomer, Ed's rifle isn't bad at all (if you don't know how to shoot a boomer, it'll teach you real fast, hang on tight )

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Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  02:34:15 AM  Show Profile
Here is picture of 3 different bullets in
cases, and a original bmg case with rim turned
off and threaded to take 12ga size rims shown in
the picture..Ed



Ed Hubel
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DaBowMan18
Advanced Member

USA
3935 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  2:43:05 PM  Show Profile
that guns gotta break your shoulder!!!
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Tailgunner1954
Advanced Member

7656 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  2:59:31 PM  Show Profile
DaBowMan
I fired it half a dozen times one afternoon, and it just slightly rocked my 185lb body. Only about 6" of muzzle rise and no brusing.

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Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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DaBowMan18
Advanced Member

USA
3935 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  3:03:26 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Tailgunner1954

DaBowMan
I fired it half a dozen times one afternoon, and it just slightly rocked my 185lb body. Only about 6" of muzzle rise and no brusing.

really. Is it ported??
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Tailgunner1954
Advanced Member

7656 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  3:58:39 PM  Show Profile
No ports, no brake, just a single shot bolt action with a good pad, enough weight and properly balanced (barrel heavy)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2006 :  10:55:21 PM  Show Profile
Bob is right-it kicks no harder than a 10 lb Lott.
Here is picture of the case we fired 36 times,
sectioned to show there is no stretching or thinning.
Can't even measure any thinning with calipers.Ed.



Ed Hubel
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PSFD DONKEY
Junior Member

USA
499 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2006 :  5:46:01 PM  Show Profile
That is just amazing, great work guys.

When they come for your guns, give them your bullets FIRST!!!
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2006 :  10:39:14 PM  Show Profile
Here is a picture of a heavy double we are checking specs
on to see if it will work for 12GA FH..Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2006 :  4:11:08 PM  Show Profile
Here is a comparison picture of 3 big cases,
showing our 12GA FH in the scheme of things.
1st is 700NE, 2nd is our 12GA FH,3rd
my 700HE belted case.Ed.


Ed Hubel

Edited by - hubel458 on 03/18/2006 4:13:55 PM
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One shot
Senior Member

USA
1653 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2006 :  03:06:00 AM  Show Profile
What kind of chamber pressure are you getting. At one time I wanted to try the same thing, but using a brass case about the same diameter as the .20 Ga hull and about 2" longer. Mine would have been a bottle neck due to the fact we would have used the .45 caliber projectile. I just wanted to do it to see if it was possible. I was a lot younger then and Grandad talked some common sence into me though. I think his speech contained some swear words and a comparison of my common sence level and the outhouse. I think I will stick to wild catting the .450 Marlin round.

"The most persistent sound which reverberates through man's history is the beating of war drums."

Edited by - One shot on 03/19/2006 03:08:58 AM
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2006 :  9:11:12 PM  Show Profile
oneshot--In my Savage I hold to 30,000 psi. Other two
guys with big Borchardt falling blocks can go
70,000. Cases will take pressures for many reloads,
as the following pic shows of one sectioned that I
fired 36 times.No sign of thinning at all. Ed.


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2006 :  10:37:11 PM  Show Profile
Tested a 870 gr hardened cast bullet that Greg Addington
makes.Got it to 2300fps at moderate pressures.Lightened it
with hollowpoint and got it to 2500 plus with no leading.
That will make Greg happy as no one else can test them that fast.
Here is picture of 3 with one in case. It is seated out so
to get max capacity. It is real hard. Good for big game.Ed


Ed Hubel

Edited by - hubel458 on 04/06/2006 10:39:14 PM
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2006 :  12:02:23 AM  Show Profile
Anyone wanting a case or two to look at or collect, let
me know.I have 50 extras. Ten bucks for Case, trip to PO,
postage.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2006 :  9:41:23 PM  Show Profile
We get asked about longrange bullets.In picture is a
pointed brass bullet that will shoot flatter than
regular shotgun stuff, because of our high velocities.
Good for vicious p-dogs I guess.... Ed.



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2006 :  10:13:57 PM  Show Profile
We tested a Barnes 3/4 oz sabot at high speed.....
All 500 S&W bullets will work in same sabot that
Federal put the Barnes in.Also lighter 505 slugs.
And real neat, the front section of BMG surplus
bore rider bullets. Buy them by the bushel.
Cut off the .510 diameter back and leaves front
1.5 in long of .500 diameter. Fit sabot cup perfect.
It is second in picture.Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2006 :  11:12:03 PM  Show Profile
Shot a 610 grain hollowpoint Dixie hard
slug into 6 gallon sealed pail of water.
Going 2800 fps, and real big hollowpoint.
First pic is pail with crimped on top.
Pail full and has filler spout capped.
Second pic,impact with water atomising,
and pail blowing apart.In the next small
fraction of a second is third after impact
with shelf cleared, the hyrostatic pressure
down, has bent top of steel frame shelf.
Same blast put jug pieces all over.
Got to get a 15 gallon one. Behind
you see my wood bundle backstop...Ed






Ed Hubel

Edited by - hubel458 on 05/28/2006 03:01:49 AM
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temblor
Senior Member

2295 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2006 :  1:14:33 PM  Show Profile
Impressive to say the least Ed .
That's really a well thought out design you have, and the 50 BMG bullets in sabots is a great "plinking" round !
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Remington52865
Starting Member

USA
32 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2006 :  9:45:40 PM  Show Profile
i looks like it would hurt really bad
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Tailgunner1954
Advanced Member

7656 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2006 :  05:19:09 AM  Show Profile
Rem
I'm 51, 5'8, 185lb. Ed's rifle pushed me around a little, but not real bad considering the power it has. Ed reported thet the barrel only came up about 6" when I fired it offhand.
Recoil level is in the 100-110lb range, which is about what you normaly find when your shooting a true "big bore" rifle (Medium bores like the 416 Rigby runs in the mid 60's).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  10:49:55 PM  Show Profile
I picked up a 12ga NEF Ultra Slug gun.24 inch shorty barrel.
Added weight and thumbhole stock.
Gun weighted to 15 lbs so
far. I got 600gr hard slug to
1650-1700 so far, and shoots easy.
Got 1 1/2 inch thick pad.Working up different
loads.Should get over 2000.
Cases eject easy,no resizing needed
on bottom half of case,action opens easy,
no evidence of binding.Started case 3.2 inch,
settled on case length of 3.15-- Chamber being
full size max 12ga size expands top half of case
more than my minimum chamber in Savage does,
so little more effort needed to size.Our case, though many times stronger than regular
12ga cases is thinner at mouth, so that is
why I used tight chamber on Savage.Still
can't get used to mickey mouse short barrel.
Anyone know of a genius who could
make long alloy barrel with pivot mounted?
Cases can be 3 inches on up to
our length, and work.Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2006 :  10:01:43 PM  Show Profile
We got 600 gr slug to 2000 fps in NEF.Used ball
powder load. Case length of maximum 3.07 works.
Can use our case shorter, but load developement harder.
Anyone using our style case should also put in adapter
for shotgun primer. Save a lot of work
beefing up hammer speed and strength.Ed

Ed Hubel
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Cubslover
Advanced Member

USA
16432 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2006 :  11:53:52 AM  Show Profile
Awesome! Keep us informed.

"Half of the lies they tell about me aren't true"

Click here to put a bid on my Yugo monster.

"Some people are alive, only because it's illegal to kill them"
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  12:43:42 AM  Show Profile
Being some guns need to much work
to fire bmg primers, it easier to
do the following with adapter bushings.
Here is picture of cases for primer
comparisons.1st is regular bmg
primer. 2nd is adapted to a shotgun primer.
3rd is adapted to large rifle primer.
Of the 2 adaptations, large rifle is
easier to do, just ream out pocket, thread in adapter, but adapting shotgun primer
you have to deepen the original primer
pocket a little, then thread and screw in
a bushing.These two primers give about
100 fps less than bmg primer.Ed.



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2006 :  8:58:04 PM  Show Profile
Testing RL-25 in Savage, with long case--Got 730 gr
hardened cast slug to 2400 plus with 300 gr RL-25.
Full load. Bottom of cases don't need sizing.

Got 600gr to 3250, 14,000 ft lbs. Ball powder load.Ed

Ed Hubel
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temblor
Senior Member

2295 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2006 :  10:05:06 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by hubel458

Testing RL-25 in Savage, with long case--Got 730 gr
hardened cast slug to 2400 plus with 300 gr RL-25.
Full load. Bottom of cases don't need sizing.

Got 600gr to 3250, 14,000 ft lbs. Ball powder load.Ed


That's amazing Ed.-- What a thumper!!
Did I read that right about 300 grains of RL25 powder with the 730gr hardened slug ? What a payload...........

Edited by - temblor on 07/22/2006 10:06:30 PM
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DaBowMan18
Advanced Member

USA
3935 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2006 :  10:16:51 PM  Show Profile
that pail is sweet. i sure do like your guns!
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2006 :  01:23:40 AM  Show Profile
Temblor- That's correct. And we got a 730 hardened cast
to 2900 using 280gr of Win W-760 ball
powder in Savage today. Got 730gr over 2800 with 300 gr of
RL-22 yesterday. And hardened Dixie slugs at 70 cents each are
a neat deal. Ed

Ed Hubel
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temblor
Senior Member

2295 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2006 :  11:27:37 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by hubel458

Temblor- That's correct. And we got a 730 hardened cast
to 2900 using 280gr of Win W-760 ball
powder in Savage today. Got 730gr over 2800 with 300 gr of
RL-22 yesterday. And hardened Dixie slugs at 70 cents each are
a neat deal. Ed



That's alot of powder Ed!!
Do you think the Dixie slugs would hold together on big game like Cape Buffalo, etc ?? That's pretty cheap shooting for such a big round.
Keep us posted -- Interesting stuff.......
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2006 :  10:50:09 PM  Show Profile
Temblor- They might do for buffalo. others make heavier
slugs hardened the same way. The 730 goes through
about 3 ft of hardwood slabs bundled together.Ed

Ed Hubel
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shoff14
Advanced Member

9959 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2006 :  12:19:13 AM  Show Profile
Wow, thats a big size
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  11:02:29 PM  Show Profile
We are having a group buy of 1000 gr soft jacketed
bullets for 12ga from Hawk. $2.10 each.Contact
me for details.Need order of 1000 total for them to
make dies and start.Got commitment for 400
already.Let me know if interested.We are getting
a 1887 12ga lever gun to test our cases in.Ed.

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2006 :  01:56:20 AM  Show Profile
We got recoil now-Got a 1050 gr
Bridger over 2200 fps in the Savage.
I took the hollow base 750 gr Bridgers
made for me, and wedged in .500 caliber
slugs(I took out of 12ga sabot)in the base.
Added 300 gr. I was going to melt lead and put in,
but this was easier about 5 seconds,
after 15 seconds shortening nose on grinder
of .500 slug.Ed

Ed Hubel
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RustyNail
Senior Member

USA
2020 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2006 :  03:12:18 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by hubel458

We got recoil now-Got a 1050 gr
Bridger over 2200 fps in the Savage.
I took the hollow base 750 gr Bridgers
made for me, and wedged in .500 caliber
slugs(I took out of 12ga sabot)in the base.
Added 300 gr. I was going to melt lead and put in,
but this was easier about 5 seconds,
after 15 seconds shortening nose on grinder
of .500 slug.Ed



Wow, that must be some impressive recoil!!

Do you happen to know how much the gun weighs--(I'm trying to calculate the felt recoil).

When I die,I want to go quietly in my sleep like grandpa--not kicking and screaming like the passengers in his car!
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2006 :  9:36:58 PM  Show Profile
The gun is 25 lbs and has a big recoil pad.
With great balance that helps with recoil.Ed.

Ed Hubel
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victorlvlb
Advanced Member

USA
4563 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2006 :  9:51:51 PM  Show Profile
WOW!
Who would of ever tunk you could do something like that. Thats some fine work.

A patriot supports his country all the time and his government when it deserves it
Mark Twain
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2006 :  9:36:10 PM  Show Profile
Yes it is a fun project.Look
at the hairy fun the Borchardt is putting out.
We get questions about recoil.
My Savage is a ice creamcat being heavy
relative to the loads...Now Rob's gets exciting...
Rob shot a few 1000 grain Bridgers at 3250 fps
and he said he couldn't go any higher as recoil
was "severe". His Borchardt is 24 lbs, and can take
any pressure you could load for it and still
hang on. Cartridges of this size really gets
the juices flowing at over 23,000 ft lbs..Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  06:27:59 AM  Show Profile
We got 1887 12ga levergun here to test. Has 2 & 3/4
inch chamber and we will test with our cases cut back and
with Rocky Mtn cases.Here is pic.Neat gun.Ed



Ed Hubel
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beararms2
Junior Member

132 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  01:28:08 AM  Show Profile
I'm impressed! What kind of downrange performance (other than total devastation) are you getting with these things? Will they group? Range?
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