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 Wildcat 12GA From Hell.--
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2007 :  9:49:42 PM  Show Profile
The 12GA From Hell is now on
Ammoguide, the last page of
cartridge list.Ed

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=611

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  10:12:32 PM  Show Profile
Saw info on a break action that
would handle 12ga FH.It is Cole,
with a strong top lock and real wide
strong extractor.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2007 :  10:07:20 PM  Show Profile
tested 3.5" plastic cases in NEF, small
primers. My chamber is long for our
long brass case, so they work fine.....
600 gr slug, 105 gr of IMR 4227,
got 2100. Same slug, 180 gr, 7383 surplus,
got 2100 fps. That's 5800 ft lbs from 12ga
plastic shotgun cases.Ed

Ed Hubel
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408
Starting Member

USA
21 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2007 :  06:56:41 AM  Show Profile
I was wondering if you could use a Marlin 512 Slugmaster as a base gun for building one of these monsters. Or is the action to weak? I know nothing about there maximum working pressure.But i do know that with a 445 grain BRI 3In. magnum shock point sabot off the bench it lets you know that it needs to be a little more nose heavy! Another quick question. I found three full boxes of Activ 23/4''shells at a local flea market last weekend.Have you ever used any of these strange but unique hulls in your reloading and testing? Thanks,and keep up the good work.
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2007 :  10:24:53 PM  Show Profile
The 512 would take heavier slower powder
loads with a heavy long rifled barrel, 600gr
slugs, in 3" plastic cases. Put on a good pad
and little wt in the butt also.Ed

Ed Hubel
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408
Starting Member

USA
21 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  5:14:18 PM  Show Profile
Thanks Ed. I didn't think it would handle anything super heavy. But 600gr. would more than do the do on any thing i will ever come in contact with in my neck of the woods. Now i guess i'll see if Pac will thread me a heavy barrel for a 512. Thanks Again.
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2007 :  04:03:34 AM  Show Profile
It will handle any load that has pressures like
heavy magnum goose or turkey loads or
like Rem Buckhammer slug loads. Once
it's done, with barrel dimensions, then we can
figure out loads for you. But I want to
add that Mossberg 12ga 395s and 695s cost very little,
and look so much more like a big game gun.
The rear mounted bolt handle looks nicer.Check on
the lisings on this site and others.Ed

Ed Hubel

Edited by - hubel458 on 10/20/2007 6:13:00 PM
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  6:10:50 PM  Show Profile
Here is the Enfield I reamed out to feed 12 gauge and BMG
size cases. I added two rear bolt locking lugs, one the huge bolt
handle and another added that locks in rear bridge. The front lugs
still contact on their top 40 %. This is concept from earlier shown
Mauser shotgun conversions, where they were made from 98
Mausers, giving a bolt action 12ga.This one is chambered for
my belted 700H 3.25" case, as a load developement test gun.
Loads up to 825 gr at 2500 so far.. Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2007 :  11:17:49 PM  Show Profile
The three From Hell cartridges----
My 28GA FH, 2nd Our 12GA FH, can
you guess the 3rd?. What do readers think. Ed


Ed Hubel
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408
Starting Member

USA
21 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2007 :  05:56:34 AM  Show Profile
10Ga.FH maybe?
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2007 :  12:11:28 AM  Show Profile
It is the 8GA From Hell, a real cartridge. 4.3 inch long
brass case. 8 ga shorter plastic case, plan on in same chamber.
The brass kiln gun case isn't as long as mine. Where do
you find the rare 8 ga brass kiln gun cases.
Looking now for guns or actions and barrels. I make it
from 20mm Suzy brass(20mm Hispano Suiza), by putting
on a 8ga size rim and reshaping like we did 12GA FH....Ed

Ed Hubel
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cce1302
Advanced Member

USA
9720 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2007 :  12:22:09 PM  Show Profile
Ed,
after reading this thread, I thought you were crazy. Then I get to the bottom and see your 8gafh. Now I KNOW you're crazy. Keep up the good work.
Let me know when you come up with a shoulder-fired 155mm Howitzer.
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2007 :  12:50:40 AM  Show Profile
8ga, we gonna do a couple, first one a test
gun in an Enfield with rear locking lugs.
All locking is in the rear, it is not exactly like
my 700HE one,as both lug seats gone in the
front like a Mauser shotgun.
May have a way to get barrels 'fast'---
fast being like 2 weeks, from the time I
have money to do it. And only about
150 bucks each.......Am working on it.
In pic you see long case sticking out of
the action, a couple 8ga plastic cases, a
couple of the 8ga kiln slugs, 3 oz and
hardened. Am looking for a slug built like the
Federal 10 ga one that has rounded nose and
hollow base, that will fit bores tight.
The barrels I am working deal on will be smoothbore.Ed



Ed Hubel
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jtmarine0831
Member

USA
918 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2007 :  8:41:18 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Tailgunner1954



As I tell the wife, I always need "just" one more gun



Oh I know! But my wife still isn't buying that line!



0311
GOLF 2nd BTN 5th Marines
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2007 :  12:18:32 AM  Show Profile
Howabout this Long Tom slug gun.....Ed


Ed Hubel
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jkophazy
Starting Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2007 :  9:20:05 PM  Show Profile
Mr. Hubel,

I'm glad to see your still at it. I worked with some variations based on your work a few months ago. I managed to get 1700 fps out of the H&R. When the temperatures of summer got up there I had to back off a bit. I hope to have the time to get back to it. Have you had enough investors to get the jacketed .729 slugs going yet?

Respectfully,

Jason
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2007 :  9:58:36 PM  Show Profile
Jason- Glad you are working on it.
We have a guy who would do 750 gr jacketed
for $1.50 each and help with die set to
make them. Email when you get a chance.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2007 :  2:10:26 PM  Show Profile
Got an 8ga barrel blank being made now,
will be here end of the week.Found this
info on plastic 8ga kiln gun loads, they
load a frangible 710gr slug at 2300-
for 8300ft lbs, load 1275gr hard slug to
1700, 8100 ft lbs. We will outdo those easy
with our non-shotgun powder loads, in
a heavy barrel.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2007 :  11:04:29 PM  Show Profile
tested 35" smooth barrel in 1887. Got couple
1 oz foster slugs over 2400, with 110gr
of 4227. 3" plastic case, regular primers.
This is a heavy barrel for that type of load,
don't do this in your 12ga skinny barrels.
The 28GA FH cases on the way.Chambering
bolt gun for it now..Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2007 :  1:09:19 PM  Show Profile
In the 87 long smooth barrel got
1 oz Brenneke to 2400 with 110gr
of 4227, You could use 4759 and
VV110 also at lesser amounts.
Barrel is cylinder bore size.
Brenneke slugs need no wads as the
locked on wad works good.Ed

Ed Hubel
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owen219
Senior Member

USA
2053 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2007 :  11:04:26 AM  Show Profile
It would be interesting to see what these big rounds would do on large game or ballistic gel blocks if you could find one big enough for a demo. The water pail is splashy but would like to see penetration, expansion and shock wave cone. Please give us a picture and description if you ever reach this level of experimentation or demonstration. Thanks. This is all very interesting to say the least.
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sure-shots@hotmail.com
Starting Member

Canada
2 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2007 :  10:40:54 PM  Show Profile
I love that gun. GREAT JOB.

If you find the recoil a bit to much,this is what i done to one of my custom rifles, I took a 300 weatherby action and had a 27.5" gain twist dug barrel chambered for a 416 Weatherby because i wanted to shoot a 350 gr speer magtip over 3000 fps with as less recoil as posable.But it was a chance i had to take because i had no info at all about gain twist barrel and loading data. A old friend of mine from BC suggested me to find someone to make the barrel and after some time, i found someone from Alberta who could build it or try his best.When the Rifle was compleated and ready to shoot I was getting verry nervous and wondered if i had made a big BOBO and wasted thousands of $,But after two days of loading, my Vel was 3012 fps and verry low recoil and no preasure and a 3 shot 1/2" group at 100 yards.And it turned out to be a BIG BORE tack driver.Ps my twist rate was a 1 in 30 to a 1 in 15.5 at the muzzle with no muzzle brake or boss.
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2007 :  7:36:21 PM  Show Profile
I hope to get some gel blocks set up next year.
They will have to be big. Years ago I shot
an 8 x 8 x 24" one with my 458HE wildcat
and disintegrated it. As for twist I use the least
amount neccessary and with long/heavy barrels,
and thick recoil pads.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2007 :  8:29:12 PM  Show Profile
In the long barrel 87 got 600 grain
Dixie over 2000, got a Buckhammer slug
I took out of factory load over 1900.
Buckhammer and locked on wad is 630
gr. tested in 3" plastic cases.

The firing pin on the 87 didn't protude out
like I like them to as it comes from factory,
so I removed .015 from the hammer stop.
It fires big and small primers perfect.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2007 :  02:04:16 AM  Show Profile
10GA FH..a NEF 10ga, medium to heavy wt smooth barrel.
28" long, gun weighted to 14lbs. factory FED 765gr loads
are 1300 fps. 200 gr of first powder tested is 7383 surplus
and the regular shotgun primers got 765 gr to 1600,
for 4300 ft lbs. Case won't hold anymore 7383.
We will test 4227 with the same slug , and saboted slug
of some design. The 765 gr Fed slug is hollowbase for
smooth bores. Roll crimped with crimper in drill press.
Case expansion with 7383 very little(.006") like
the factory loads. 3.5" plastic cases.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2007 :  8:43:13 PM  Show Profile
10GA FH info.Fed factory hollowbase slug is .025" smaller than
10ga bore. I bumped it up to the .775" size, by expanding
hollow base. With 7383 that gave another 150 fps.Fast starting
shotgun powders expand base better than much slower 7383.
The Federal factory load has 120gr of wads/seals about 1.4"
long. Better to replace with much more slower powder,
getting better velocity, still at low shotgun pressures.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2008 :  4:46:50 PM  Show Profile
Some interesting things we find......
First two cases are ours we had made by putting rims on bmg
brass, The right ones santa sent me and appear to be
drawn, high strength case that are same dimensions.
Are they worth rounding up, seeing as how the guy
who made our first bunch just closed and retired.
What do you think .......Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2008 :  02:23:03 AM  Show Profile
In 10GA NEF 110gr 4227 got 765gr slug
to 1800, ejected ok. If it was a really
heavy barrel it could do more.Using the
7383 surplus at 150 gr, don't even have
to resize to fire 3 times. The 28GA FH
done and testing in next couple weeks.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2008 :  7:52:15 PM  Show Profile
Fired 28GA FH-- Cases extract easy.--It is
in bolt action Enfield. With 550gr jkt slug,
full load 150 gr of WC-860, got 1900 fps.
This will be slowest load and powder.
In picture is 3.25" brass 28ga cases, regular
28ga plastic case, jkt slugs, a 458Win
for comparison.Regular cases work also.Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  7:08:18 PM  Show Profile
28ga cases are made by Rocky Mtn Cartridge,
Barrel is rifled with 4 grooves, 1-22 twist.
You could do one on Savage 210.Another
shotgun bolt action that would handle it
with little work, heavy barrel, is the
395-495-595-695 bolt action Mossberg.
Just show that 28GA FH isn't puny, here is
picture of it next to a 505 Gibbs.Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2008 :  10:42:31 PM  Show Profile
Here is picture and info on Royal
Arms' site for hopped up 12ga loads,
used in little cannons for bomb work.
Anyone got any of these fired that I could inspect to see how they are built.ED

http://www.royalarms.com/EOD/ammo/canonammo.gif

Ed Hubel
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B_Mc
Member

USA
590 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2008 :  2:31:06 PM  Show Profile
This has go to be the MOST crazy thing that i have seen. I mean that in a good way. Nice gun!! I would like to see the exit wound that thing will leave.
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2008 :  12:11:21 PM  Show Profile
I like the Savage 210 so I'm putting
a 700 barrel on one and chambering for
my 700H 3.25 case. Working on it now.
It is a straight belted case, .700 cal.
Should get the same energy levels as
the 12GA From Hell case in same action.
In pic is 700H case in the action. Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2008 :  02:36:14 AM  Show Profile
Here is pic showing process of making my
700cases from BMG brass.Shows the steps,
first bmg case, next the belt formed, last case
expanded to 700 cal with slug.
An 06 case on right for comparison.Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2008 :  12:27:32 AM  Show Profile
28GA FH research. Guy on forums suggested using 54cal
rifled barrels for 28ga as they are easy to get. I looked into
it and did some testing. It is ok as long as you keep bullet
about 400gr as most 54cal barrels are not super alloy.
You got to use the thick heavy ones also, being stronger.
And everyone with 28ga wants slugs and there is no slug loads
from factory, and to reload the heavier bullets we shouldn't use
these barrels or regular 28ga barrels with 600-700 gr slugs.
But there are couple dozen 54cal bullets out there
stocked all over the gunstore shelves, in weights from 300 to
450 gr. There are heavier but for 28GA FH on deer 400gr is
great. I tested the 405 gr copper plated Powerbelt brand, with
velocities from 2300 to 2800 plus fps. That's 6500 ft lbs.
The 54cal slugs load tight in the RMC 3.25" 28ga case fine by
sizing top a little tighter. Bullet obturates to fit .550 bore
as bullet is hitting target straight. A lot of 54cal barrels
go from 530 to 560. 54cal slugs range from .534 to .560"
There are different sizes of 28ga barrels and chokes,
so some where there is lighter 54cal slug that fits..
And with light slugs the pressure limits with the MRC brass
match top muzzle loading pressures, so these barrels will work.
And great thing is the 54cal barrel guys ain't allergic
to making long barrels. I've shot one MRC case 15 times and
still going strong...Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2008 :  11:40:53 PM  Show Profile
28GA FH testing. 405 gr in 2.75" plastic case
got 1400. tested the Great Plains 54cal
lubed slug, runs from 2200 to 2700. It is
by Hornady and its front band actually measures
.550" and hollowbase. They hit target straight.
Got a bunch of 415gr hollowbase coming that
are 548" from Dixie Gunworks. Only 26 cents each.
All will work in plastic or long brass
case. I found another .550 bbl and coming, and
it will go on a Mossberg bolt action
for the second 28GA FH to test.. Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  01:44:00 AM  Show Profile
tested the 415 gr hollowbase slugs in 28GA FH long
brass case. These are ones that Dixie Gunworks sell
that they call their Sharps .548" slug. They all run
about .008 bigger than that so they make perfect tight
fit for .550" barrel, and I used a good lube on them
in the grooves. They are a little harder alloy slug than
the Powerbelts or Great Plains The 28ga shellholder
for our Lee, Lyman, Rcbs presses , we use, is from
RCBS for regular metallic press rams. For 28ga dies
Hollywood made some for metallic presses.Also for
sizing for bottom 2/3 of the brass case you can cut
top off of the 500J die.The slower powder loads don't
even have to have the bottom half sized, which
is great for a turned case. If we had drawn brass cases
we could get 11,000 ft lbs, in the Enfield, which we
don't really need for deer. 4-6000 ft lbs ok/deer ..Ed


Ed Hubel
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Mikein
New Member

USA
97 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2008 :  7:55:46 PM  Show Profile
Ed,

Talk about the Shotgun From Hell! Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 02/29/2008 :  12:49:46 AM  Show Profile
Here is picture of a jacketed hollowpoint
12ga slug a fellow is going to make for us.
We hope to have tooling set up this summer
we plan on. Next to it is a 600gr Dixie hardened
slug. First ones he will probably make will
be about 700-750 gr.Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2008 :  10:11:27 PM  Show Profile
In the 87 Win Levergun, smooth barrel,
long barrel, using brass RMC 3" cases,
1 oz Brenneke KO slug to 2700 with 4227
powder. Shotgun primer. I will be getting
some 3.5" RMC brass that he will put a special
longer corner radius in, to allow faster loads
with less case expansion and easier resizing.
Should get same slug to 3000 and resize
easier also. With shotgun primer able to use
4227, and you WON"T have to rework hammer
or firing pin to do big primers.

Santa sent me 9 more PROP cases used in little
cannons for bomb disposal. Got 12 now.Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2008 :  01:13:04 AM  Show Profile
Here is picture of the Enfield bolt,
showing the 2 rear lugs I added.
The huge bolt handle base 3rd rear lug.
Bolt handle needs polishing.This one
will be in the action for the 8GA FH.
The Enfield I have 700H in is like
this also.Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2008 :  10:56:05 PM  Show Profile
THE 8GA FH BELLERED TODAY. It is in Enfield I rigged with
rear locking bolt lugs. 32" barrel, tested 3.3" plastic cases.
Cases are the REM kiln gun cases. With the double cup base.
I shaved base a little so that chamber will fire these as well as
regular 8ga plastic. None of the firing today expanded base cups
at all, so they are real strong cases. Started testing to check
ignition with shotgun primers and to see if cases are any
good. Starting with a 110 gr mouse ball, wad under it, and 150 gr
of Blue Dot, about 5000 fps.. Gun didn't even recoil.Then a
410 gr one at 3000 fps, Then a 770 gr hollowbase slug in a wadcup
up to 2000 so far with 180gr of 7383. Barrel is smoothbore. 832"
bore at the muzzle. Ed

Ed Hubel

Edited by - hubel458 on 03/30/2008 11:47:09 PM
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2008 :  7:44:01 PM  Show Profile
8GA FH testing- using IMR 4759, 770 gr slug,
top load of 140 gr, got 2500 fps......
Over 10,000 ft lbs..Cases extract easy.
The plastic in 8ga case is twice as thick as
in 12ga cases.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2008 :  01:06:05 AM  Show Profile
Here is picture of Enfield 8GA FH. You can see plastic case
in the port. Box of cases behind, 770 gr and 1050 gr
slugs in front with the 8ga wadcups I use.
Left two slugs are 1050 gr made from 3 oz kiln slugs.
I rounded nose and put in hollow base. Also the
cards and fiber wads used. Slugs are hollowbase, as
it is smooth bore barrel. Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2008 :  04:19:08 AM  Show Profile
In picture of the 8ga bolt action you can see the
ring I put on front of bolt to support large diameter
8ga casehead. It is suported against thrust by the
front lugs, and total bolt thrust is supported by rear
lugs and have taken the heavy loads ok.. Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2008 :  11:54:54 PM  Show Profile
Here is picture on left of the 12ga hollowpoint slug
with plastic tip. Makes it streamlined, good for 300yds.
And still will expand good thin skinned game-deer.
I put tip in with glue gun in few seconds, and
shaped a point on it with trim knife. Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2008 :  1:40:21 PM  Show Profile
I also have two other cartridges with my name
on them that I am promoting. They are my 700HE
and my 585BHE. They both belted straight cases.
Montana Rifle company is coming out with their
big PH action and some guys will be doing my
cases in them.

Info on the 585BHE. It will work in
any gun that handles 505 Gibbs like Enfield, CZ,
Ruger,etc.Mine is in Enfield.Here is picture of
of one next to Trex. And mine holds 15gr more
powder than that Trex case. 585BHE will do 750
grain from 1800 to 2800 fps in my Enfield.

Anyone interested setting up a gun, contact me
I will furnish reamer and 15 free cases. Cases are
headstamped. When done return reamer to me, for
the next guy. I will keep them sharpened. After a
few guys have guns we all will get together with
others wanting some and get a run of brass made.
These cases are all drawn high pressure brass.
I'd like guys to ask for reamer when gun is going
to be ready to chamber, that way reamers get the
most guns done in shortest time.Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2008 :  12:59:51 AM  Show Profile
On Fri May 2 8pm on the Science Channel ,they will have
an article about the heavy barrel cannons that shoot
the brass cases for bomb disposal.They are the same as
our 12GA FH case,when resized in my dies and are shown
in this thread a couple months back in picture.
It will show them using them for bomb disposal. Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2008 :  11:22:08 PM  Show Profile
testing 8GA FH in Enfield, 1050 gr slug in wad cup, 120 gr
of 4759, over 2000 fps. Cases extract easy. Hardly any
base cup expansion...Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  01:46:14 AM  Show Profile
Here is picture of a sectioned 8ga plastic case
showing how heavy and strong it is built. The
plastic is one piece compressioned formed and
the sides of the cases are twice as thick as
12ga cases.You can see the double thickness
of the base cup. Ed


Ed Hubel
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