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 old 12 gauge
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randyleedraving
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2006 :  8:55:53 PM  Show Profile
Can anyone tell me about this gun, I know it was my great grandfathers and should not be shot but I am looking for some info. It says
NEW RIVAL
'VAN CAMP HDWE & IRON CO
INDIANAPOLIS
It says 12 near the breech and guine armory steel on the barrell
Thanks and I appreciate any info.

zipperzap
Advanced Member

31626 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2006 :  10:14:06 PM  Show Profile
Van Camp Hardware & Iron Company was a gun and hardware dealer located in Indianapolis Indiana circa 1876 and later. They sold guns marked Compeer, Rival and New Rival.



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He Dog
Advanced Member

Australia
37404 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2006 :  10:14:43 PM  Show Profile
New Rival was a name used by Crescent for shotguns built for Van Camp Howe. and yes, it probably should not be shot, at least not before being checked out by a qualified (on old bp shotguns) and then only with black powder shells with modest charges. One poster hear hunts with such double guns regularly.

Crescent Firearms Co. was started in 1888 by George W. Cilley when he bought out the defunct Bacon Arms Co. of Norwich, Connecticut. Cilley formed a partnership with Frank Foster and Crescent was born. Both men held firearms patents, and both were qualified to design and manufacture firearms. They began making a tip-up single with external side hammers, and began making SxS’s in 1891. Crescent was best known for producing “house brand” shotguns. These were made for and sold by a variety of hardware companies, mail order stores, retailers and distributors. Nearly 100 names are known or thought to have been used on shotguns produced by Crescent. In 1929 N. R. Davis Firearms Co. merged with Crescent to become Davis-Crescent Arms Co. H & D Folsom was a New York importer and distributor of firearms from about 1890 to 1930, at which time they merged with the Davis-Crescent Arms Co. In 1931 the depression forced the sale of Davis-Crescent to the Stevens Arms Co., which assembled the remaining parts and sold them under the Stevens name. (Another version of the history has Crescent sold to Universal Tackle and Sporting Goods Co. in 1954)

It is not known whether Crescent produced any high grade shotguns, but certainly the house brand shotguns were utilitarian and unadorned. Most sold in the range of $10-$12. Today, only a handful of models, such as the New Empire and the Crescent Certified have collector value. The vast majority are sold as shooters or wall hangers for modest prices, usually under $250.

The average response time for a 911 call is 23 minutes; the response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
10924 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2006 :  10:24:14 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by He Dog

New Rival was a name used by Crescent for shotguns built for Van Camp Howe. and yes, it probably should not be shot, at least not before being checked out by a qualified (on old bp shotguns) and then only with black powder shells with modest charges. One poster hear hunts with such double guns regularly.

Crescent Firearms Co. was started in 1888 by George W. Cilley when he bought out the defunct Bacon Arms Co. of Norwich, Connecticut. Cilley formed a partnership with Frank Foster and Crescent was born. Both men held firearms patents, and both were qualified to design and manufacture firearms. They began making a tip-up single with external side hammers, and began making SxS’s in 1891. Crescent was best known for producing “house brand” shotguns. These were made for and sold by a variety of hardware companies, mail order stores, retailers and distributors. Nearly 100 names are known or thought to have been used on shotguns produced by Crescent. In 1929 N. R. Davis Firearms Co. merged with Crescent to become Davis-Crescent Arms Co. H & D Folsom was a New York importer and distributor of firearms from about 1890 to 1930, at which time they merged with the Davis-Crescent Arms Co. In 1931 the depression forced the sale of Davis-Crescent to the Stevens Arms Co., which assembled the remaining parts and sold them under the Stevens name. (Another version of the history has Crescent sold to Universal Tackle and Sporting Goods Co. in 1954)

It is not known whether Crescent produced any high grade shotguns, but certainly the house brand shotguns were utilitarian and unadorned. Most sold in the range of $10-$12. Today, only a handful of models, such as the New Empire and the Crescent Certified have collector value. The vast majority are sold as shooters or wall hangers for modest prices, usually under $250.




As a correction to the otherwise informative piece of information posted by the forgetful old Phart He Dog, by the year 1931, there was no "Stevens Arms Co."

During World War I, Savage merged with Driggs-Seabury Ordnance Company, and made Lewis machine guns. In 1920, Savage purchased J. Stevens Arms, a company which was associated with the famous barrel maker, Harry Pope. Later, Savage acquired the assets of Page Lewis Company, Davis-Warner Arms, Crescent Firearms, and A.H. Fox.

That will teach you to accuse me of being forgetful

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Bert H. - http://www.bbhc.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/

Real Men own and shoot a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!



Edited by - Bert H. on 05/19/2006 10:30:52 PM
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He Dog
Advanced Member

Australia
37404 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2006 :  12:39:41 PM  Show Profile
Just for fun: http://tinyurl.com/rryrk

Scroll down this page a ways and a page from a 1924 catalog shows your New Rival shotgun for the grand price of $17.50. They also sold Stevens, H&R, Parkers, Iver Johnson, and Marlin.

http://my.voyager.net/~mfhaston/VanCampPage.html

The average response time for a 911 call is 23 minutes; the response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

Edited by - He Dog on 05/20/2006 12:46:58 PM
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randyleedraving
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2006 :  3:04:21 PM  Show Profile
Thanks to all for all the information
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Scorpionfl
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2006 :  8:38:26 PM  Show Profile
I too have a New Rival 12 ga shotgun, that was given to my son-in-law by his grandfather. I need to know how to break it down, so we can reblue it. How does the barrel come off?

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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
10924 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2006 :  9:30:43 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Scorpionfl

I too have a New Rival 12 ga shotgun, that was given to my son-in-law by his grandfather. I need to know how to break it down, so we can reblue it. How does the barrel come off?





Respectfully, if you do not even know how to break down a double barrel shotgun, you should not even attempt to reblue it!! Rebluing an old gun should be left to the professionals, and they will know exactly how to break it down properly. Personally, I fail to understand why you would even want to reblue an old gun that has minimal value and use. It got the way it is today through many years of honest use, so be proud to display it as such.

GunBroker.com Moderator

The Largest Auction Gun Store Online including Pistols, Shotguns, and Rifles


Bert H. - http://www.bbhc.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/

Real Men own and shoot a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!


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Old Fool
Senior Member

USA
1837 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  08:49:15 AM  Show Profile
I agree with Bert. Clean it in detail and finish it with a quality wax (like Renaissance). Hang it up and enjoy it.


He who governs least governs best.

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Scorpionfl
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  6:35:27 PM  Show Profile
Its not a double barrel. The thing about it, is, that his grandfather left this shotgun and another bolt-action shotgun in his old barn. He had actually forgotten about them, till they started to tear the barn down this year. His grandfather said its been in the barn that he knows of, for over 20 years. The bolt-action, we took apart and reblued it and sanded down the wood and put a cherry finish to it and it looks like new. This single barrel, we just want to redo it and "YES" hang it up, its not to be used. Its just the fact that it was his grandfather's when he was young, he's now 88 yoa. His grandfather was surprise, when he saw the photos, how the bolt-action looked, he said it looked just like it did, when he bought it over 50 years ago. I just want to get to the rust under the barrel and inside.
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11b6r
Advanced Member

USA
13147 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  7:27:30 PM  Show Profile
Scorpion- for most top break shotguns (single bbl) IF there is no release button under the forearm, or at the tip of the forearm, look for a pin that passes left to right thru the forearm. Press the pin out to the side with a punch, and once removed, pull the end of the forearm down and off. Then open the shotgun, and barrel will come off the receiver.

"Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine."
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11b6r
Advanced Member

USA
13147 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  7:33:19 PM  Show Profile
Sorry- should have said, IF no release button and no cross pin, some use a concealed spring latch that snaps over a stud under the barrel. Try gently pulling down on the end of the forearm.

"Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine."
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11b6r
Advanced Member

USA
13147 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  7:34:09 PM  Show Profile
You MAY find a schematic over at gunpartscorp.com Use the parts look up under Cresent. Good luck!

"Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine."

Edited by - 11b6r on 12/11/2006 7:36:27 PM
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