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One shot
Senior Member

USA
1653 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2006 :  8:55:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have heard of some problems with the 5.56 round. what do ya think.

"The most persistent sound which reverberates through man's history is the beating of war drums."

jimkane
Senior Member

USA
1432 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2006 :  10:10:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
M925

27Nov2003 Samarra, Iraq


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One shot
Senior Member

USA
1653 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2006 :  03:52:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I myself liked having the M-60 during the first Gulf war. It would chew through hard obsticles and gave me a sence of security. I can not remember one time where I had a problem with that gun, which surprised me. When we were out on the range it tended to jam from time to time. When I got to the desert it never failed me, not a single time.

"The most persistent sound which reverberates through man's history is the beating of war drums."
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n/a
deleted

16149 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2006 :  05:17:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The M-16 has to tight of tolerances for out in that sandy part of the world. If you can't keep it clean on a regular basis (and in combat you can't). That is why I have allways fely the U.S. needed to develop something more like an AK for the military. It can get dirty and keep on going bang every time you pull the trigger.
One shot has it right with the M-60. When I was there the 60 performed very well with very minimal jams. But the 60 doesn'y have the tight tolorances the 16 has either.
When I was there I had more fire power on my truck than I could ever use. Between me and my co-driver we had M-16, M-60, M-203, two AK's, with the ammo for all of it, plus 2 cases of gernades. So we were ready for what ever was thrown at us.




2nd A.C.R. Operation Desert Shield/Storm 1990-1991
U.S. Army Truck Drivers:
We may not be the Army's pride, but without us Truckers the pride don't ride!

Two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel.
One is the colors that fly high and proud
The red the white the blue
The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made
Don’t Tread on Me is what it says and I’ll take that to my grave


My idea of Heaven is chasing White Tail Bucks!



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PATBUZZARD
Advanced Member

USA
3269 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2006 :  9:31:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While comparitively weak the 5.56 round is adequately lethal when delivered in high enough quantities... think m249


"DEATH BEFORE DISMOUNT!!"
"If there must be war, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine

"The 9mm might expand... But the .45acp will never shrink!"

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7.62x39
Senior Member

USA
1256 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2006 :  11:16:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the new 6.5 cal. looks good...

I am no longer white...I am European American


(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination
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jimkane
Senior Member

USA
1432 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2006 :  6:15:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh no, the idiot has infected this forum as well.

27Nov2003 Samarra, Iraq


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quikdraw67
Advanced Member

Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
5357 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2006 :  6:20:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 7.62x39

the new 6.5 cal. looks good...



would that be the 6.5 x 55 Swedish???


Sorry guys, couldn't resist. 7.62x39 is the village idiot of General Discussion. Sorry he's here to torment you Desert vets.

***************
"It is what it is"
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tpd4722
Starting Member

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2007 :  11:00:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I personally enjoyed the MK-19, however in Mogadishu it was pretty much overkill/useless. While there I preferred the M-60. But now for work I prefer the .40 caliber as my primary and secondary and off-duty weapon.

An armed society is a polite society.
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ObiWan
Senior Member

USA
1118 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2007 :  10:37:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
.50 cal.

They used it to down Japanese Zero's and now use it to down Iwaqi's.

If it stands, flies, or floats.....a .50 will take it.

www.ronpaul08.com
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idsman75
Advanced Member

USA
14810 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2007 :  07:57:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not going to get into the cartridge argument but I found the M4 to be quite adequate. I wiped mine down daily and did a thorough cleaning once/week. I used nothing but Otis Dry-Lube or Strike-Hold cleaner/lube and never had a jam.

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KBAR-04
Starting Member

26 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2007 :  4:41:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by idsman75

I'm not going to get into the cartridge argument but I found the M4 to be quite adequate. I wiped mine down daily and did a thorough cleaning once/week. I used nothing but Otis Dry-Lube or Strike-Hold cleaner/lube and never had a jam.



Have to agree here. I had no problems in Afghanistan in 2002. Official Army studies did not find a problem with the 5.56 round per se, although the newer NATO rounds in use (62g) were faulted for not producing the results at close range previously experienced with the 55g bullets. The main advantage of the 7.62 is penetration and accuracy/lethality beyond 400 meters. As to the M4/M16 system, I think its been proven to work fairly well, anecedotal evidence to the contrary. The IDF(Israel Defense Force) prefer the M16 system and have all but dumped the Galil in favor of it now. Last time I was in Israel it was pretty dusty and hot...

Retired 0-4
TF KBAR, Khandahar, AFG
CJFSOCC
Bundeswehr DSO
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M1A1
Starting Member

28 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2007 :  6:06:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tpd4722

I personally enjoyed the MK-19, however in Mogadishu it was pretty much overkill/useless. While there I preferred the M-60. But now for work I prefer the .40 caliber as my primary and secondary and off-duty weapon.





Hello sir,

You were in Mogadishu? If you don't mind me asking,what were you, ranger? Thanks

M1A1
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sclong
Starting Member

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2007 :  7:08:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ObiWan

.50 cal.

They used it to down Japanese Zero's and now use it to down Iwaqi's.

If it stands, flies, or floats.....a .50 will take it.



AMEN ........... the 50 cal is a great weapon. It eats whatever it hits! On the downside, we had a light rain immediately followed by a sandstorm, and you would have thought they were filled with concrete. Didnt take too long to unscrew them though.

Edited by - sclong on 04/22/2007 7:09:28 PM
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fitrpilot
Starting Member

14 Posts

Posted - 08/13/2007 :  3:14:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know it's a little expensive but I've always liked the 20mm Gatling Gun or the Mk84 based JDAM.

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lockandload92
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2007 :  12:08:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i'm still in school but i like the A-10 Warthog with the 30 mm GAU-8 gun, theres nothing like being hit with a bullet filled with depleted uranium,

If the Army and the Navy
Ever look on Heaven's scenes;
They will find the streets are guarded by
UNITED STATES MARINES!

It doesn't take a hero to order men into battle. It takes a hero to be one of those men who goes into battle.
-Norman Schwarzkopf

god bless our troops of the past, present, and future

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FEENIX
Advanced Member

USA
10630 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2007 :  06:38:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lockandload92

i'm still in school but i like the A-10 Warthog with the 30 mm GAU-8 gun, theres nothing like being hit with a bullet filled with depleted uranium,



Excellent choice, you should see them with all weapons stations loaded.



Me, Desert Shield/Storm, Saudi Arabia.


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kumate
Senior Member

USA
2187 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2007 :  9:09:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 5.56 is a viable cartridge the 16's had a few problems bo=ut ot as many as I have heard of lately btu the 7.62[T-65]NATO would dropem where ya seenem.I think the boats and planes did the best job,they also gave us a ride home.This last go round 2 of my men were carrying 20 ga shotguns and they worked well up close

only stupid people argue with me
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l3to
Junior Member

349 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2007 :  1:44:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 7.62x39

the new 6.5 cal. looks good...



the 6.5 grendel? I think you mean the 6.8SPC, I don't know if the grendel has officaly seen any action.

I don't man to put words in your mouth so maybe you do mean the grendel.. <shrug>

Invictus --William Ernest Henley

OUT of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
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walther86
Junior Member

USA
223 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2007 :  3:29:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 240B was definitely my favorite. Nearly the speed of a m249 and the power of a .308....Sweetness

I killed a werewolf once...but by the time I got to the body it had turned back into my neighbor's dog.
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jessedvw
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2008 :  12:53:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by walther86

The 240B was definitely my favorite. Nearly the speed of a m249 and the power of a .308....Sweetness



im gonna agree with this one, i just finished basic at the beginning of this month but the 240B and the SAW were my favorites

Iowa Army National Guard
C Troop 1-113th RSTA
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Mk 19
Advanced Member

USA
7714 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2008 :  3:38:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by walther86

The 240B was definitely my favorite. Nearly the speed of a m249 and the power of a .308....Sweetness

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



im gonna agree with this one, i just finished basic at the beginning of this month but the 240B and the SAW were my favorites


I'll agree with that one, Although my all time favorite to shoot was the MK-19. But most of my time in service the only thing I had in my hands was a mop, broom or floor buffer.

There is no problem in life, no matter how large, that cannot be solved with the proper use of high explosives

Edited by - Mk 19 on 01/04/2008 7:17:36 PM
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walther86
Junior Member

USA
223 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2008 :  10:49:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep..Janitors first, soldiers second!

I killed a werewolf once...but by the time I got to the body it had turned back into my neighbor's dog.
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Old Gunny
Junior Member

429 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2008 :  7:28:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lock and load troops. I'm a former USMC Armorer from the Vietnam era, loved the m-14 (still do today) and the M-60, based on the Kraut WW2 MG-43, but with a slower cyclical fire rate than one of "Hitler's Zippers". We wired the front of the gas cylinder with stainless wire on the early M-60's, and with either a frang belt or a 100 rd. assualt pack they were a fine crew served weapon- but the M-14 with the full auto selector was better, all of the shortcomings of the battle tested M-1 Garand were eliminated with the M-14- the only eight rd. capacity with no provision to recharge(as with stripper clips on the l903 Springfield, the famous M-1 thumb, and the dead giveaway "ping" as the empty clip flew out of the receiver. Just read in Gun Digest a gunsmith has a $45 modification for the Garand that eliminates the "thumb"- when you drop in a full clip the bolt stays reward until you "bump" it back, then, like the better design of the M-14 it moves forward, stripping a round into the chamber. Well, so much from an old Gyrene "dinger" I have a N/M l903 set up with a Unertl 10X and with a flash suppressor, which some might think is an illegal silencer/suppressor, but it ain't.
In recent issue of Shotgun News I saw an article on how short our troops are in the "Sandbox TO" today, saddens me no end they are lacking for the basics- bore brushes, cleaning patches, CLP and Cleanzoil, etc. I sent a care package just before Xmas to this APO, and ask you guys to do the same- Thanks: Sgt. First Class Richard I. Lugo (USA) B 3-7 CAV APO AE 09378.

Semper Fi- Do or Die
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usmccjc
Starting Member

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2008 :  4:40:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
7 Months in Fallujah in '06 and never had a jam on my 16, used Militec and brushed out the sand once or twice a day. Favorite weapon was my M4 Super 90, No jams, no recoil, could shoot one handed with a 3" 12 gauge round. Lots of fun, however not so practical most of the time.
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okiedokie
Starting Member

2 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2008 :  4:05:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good day All

I am a retired navy reservis tha t was recalled to active with
desert storm /shield have always loved the 556

but a couple yrs a go i bought a armalite AR10 in cmo
for deer hunting

simply love the reliability and knockdown of the system

and the precision that it is.

if i were back doing the dirty i would have it at my side.

have shot 4 deer so far and the furthest " trail" was ten feet.

ABH-1 retired
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ruger41
Advanced Member

USA
11583 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  01:58:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i have a question about the ammo you guys use these days. i know under the Geneva Convention you aren't supposed to use hollowpoint ammo--but are you allowed to use polymer tipped rounds?
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Aaron.Combs1
Junior Member

USA
196 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2008 :  08:28:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
im sorry i have been to the sandbox, and i got tired of using 2-3 rounds to take down "Haji" 5.56 is goog for hunting varmant, but people is a different story. Geneva conventions suck! learn from our past. the 7.62x51 and 30.06 round was PERFECT we should have never changed



“Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death.” - SUN TZU"

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machine gun moran
Advanced Member

USA
5514 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2008 :  11:24:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I took basic with a Garand, and we asked the senior NCO's if the 'ping' of a Garand clip flying out really was a liability. They all agreed that it wasn't, and almost all of them were combat veterans. They said that one reason was because riflemen were employed in numbers, and it was fairly impossible for the enemy to tell who 'pinged' and who didn't. When the presence of Grease Guns, Carbines, and BAR's was added in, they said enemy soldiers knew a lot better than to jump up and charge because of the sound of a 'ping'. Made sense to me.

Control is an illusion, because nobody knows what's going to happen next.
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Spc Ferguson
Senior Member

2447 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2008 :  07:00:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron.Combs1

im sorry i have been to the sandbox, and i got tired of using 2-3 rounds to take down "Haji" 5.56 is goog for hunting varmant, but people is a different story. Geneva conventions suck! learn from our past. the 7.62x51 and 30.06 round was PERFECT we should have never changed


haha with all the proportionality classes ive had to sit through i totally agree. Ill never forget i had an instructor at our mob site that actually asked me if i knew what the geneva convention was cause i had used my m2 with blank ammo during a battle drill and not told the 240b gunners to engage the threat cause there was an issue of "proportionality"

"Ive Never Seen An Officer As A Scout For A Convoy, So Why Is He Telling Me How To Do My Job ?"

"Ive got 300rds strapped to my chest, assault rifle in my hands, and I aint had my morning coffee yet, its in your best interest to lose your attitude son"
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MN Hunter
Senior Member

2228 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2008 :  10:25:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Spc Ferguson

quote:
Originally posted by Aaron.Combs1

im sorry i have been to the sandbox, and i got tired of using 2-3 rounds to take down "Haji" 5.56 is goog for hunting varmant, but people is a different story. Geneva conventions suck! learn from our past. the 7.62x51 and 30.06 round was PERFECT we should have never changed


haha with all the proportionality classes ive had to sit through i totally agree. Ill never forget i had an instructor at our mob site that actually asked me if i knew what the geneva convention was cause i had used my m2 with blank ammo during a battle drill and not told the 240b gunners to engage the threat cause there was an issue of "proportionality"



thats the Army for ya

"We" took on the philosophy....accuracy by volume. seemed to work the 2x 6mos i did in fallujah/najaf

"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble makers...and neutralize them"
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RogueStatesman
Advanced Member

USA
8294 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2008 :  8:44:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Quiet Frankly ... I prefer the NUCLEAR BOMB!! So much more effective and acts as a real deterant!!

3


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MMOMEQ-55
Advanced Member

USA
14173 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2008 :  8:53:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In VN my 7.62 worked fine. One shot one kill. Do the Marines still teach marksmanship to the recruits or is it that if you put enough lead in the air your bound to hit something?

Now the 7.62 was for far off but I carried my trusty 12 gauge for up close and personal. Ever see what 00 buckshot does to your body at close range? Ever see what a 5.56 does to a body at close range? The holes that the two leave are like comparing grapes to grapefruits.

From personal experience, size does matter.

(This is my rifle. There are many like but this one is mine.)

The day you are born you are dying. Make every day count! -Johnny B.

"Love says I sacrifice myself for the good of the other person.
Abortion says I sacrifice the other person for the good of
myself..." -unknown


In essence many modern day, legally-sanctioned abortion clinics serve the same purpose as Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Dachhau and Hitler's other slaughterhouses, which exterminated an unwanted segment of the population. - Charlie Daniels
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grumpygy
Advanced Member

USA
39341 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2008 :  11:02:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Know that a well cared for M16/M-4 will do the job. maybe not as fast as it should but it will.

But my Baby was the M-60, Got good with it and then later was able to teach others. Not sure of the Moel but the one from Mid 70's to 90's. The changed it in early 90's and it was never the same for me.

Now the 5.56 that I would have refused to carry was the SAW.

1st time I had the chance to fire one, one round and the Barrel went down range. It sheared off the barrel latch. The other times it Jamed more than it fired.

But have heard they improved it so that it is now working.

Grumpy Gunny
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gap1916
Advanced Member

USA
5020 Posts

Posted - 06/29/2008 :  11:48:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have no problems with the 5.56 round. There will always be something better and some thing worse. My personal rifle is the AR180s. My go to hand gun of is the 10mm. The rifle and hand gun I use are not the choise of our military but it works for me. My 2 cents.

Greg
Former Marine
2nd A N G L I C O
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DBMJR1
Senior Member

USA
1825 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2008 :  7:00:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I noticed that there were a whole lot more dead men, with AK-47's, than with M-16's. My M-16A1 never failed me, but I only used it once. It turns out my intended victim was already dead.
Post #1

Don
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shamtastic
Junior Member

362 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2008 :  8:48:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
my m4 worked great. I wasn't to impressed with the bullets we put in them though.

I am a has-been. Better than a never was.
Member of the 1st Universal Church of St. John Moses Browning, Reformed
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Lucky_Lefty
Advanced Member

USA
4576 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2008 :  01:33:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
my weapon would be my knife.

Chaos is the law of the Universe, and control is but a dream of man.

When engaged in combat the vanquishing of thine enemy can be the warrior's only concern. Suppress all human emotion and compassion. Kill whoever stands in thy way, even if that be Lord God, or Buddha himself.

fidelis ut meus infortunatus terra
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BigKev72
Starting Member

USA
37 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2008 :  12:35:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have used both 7.62x51 Nato and 5.56 NATO (and 9mm)rounds in operations...I do not really have a preference to tell you the truth. How does the old saying go? "Size and speed are great, but accuracy is final" or something to that effect.
Weapons on the other hand are a bit different in my opinion and I definitely have some favorites and some I intensely dislike...but that was not the topic was it.

Now...If I had my ideal play toy for ops work, AI AW in 5.56, suppressed with a nice 10x hensoldt (spelling?)

Cheers everyone!

BTW sorry to sneak in and hijack your forums, not us mil but did get to have fun in the cold cold sand during Sheild/Storm.

And just a quick edit, I did see something on television (future weapons i think) that had a company in the southern US owned by an ex-us army sf bloke who had developed a 6.5mm based of the 5.56 Nato case that was showing some promise, i think it was a fairly seriously improved BC.(Ballistic cooefficient)

I was told "smile and be happy, things could be worse". So I smiled and was happy and they were right, things were worse!

Edited by - BigKev72 on 08/21/2008 12:39:52 PM
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osubullrider
Starting Member

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2008 :  11:40:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The M4 (M16 is rarely used...for you old timers...unless you are/were a POG) is a good weapon considering the retards that we have to put up with. They (Colt) built a weapon that can handle not being cleaned in 2500 rounds and maintain the accuracy needed to turn an enemy's head into a canoe. As for the round... it sucks. The "knock down power" or foot pounds of energy at 100 meters will not stop a hell bent attacker if you put one center mass. The 6.8 SPC looks like it is going to be the next emerging round and I think it looks good on paper, but I have no personal experience with the round.
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OMMEGA
Starting Member

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2008 :  8:20:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This may be a bit off subject, but I got a call from a friend in Iraq that thanked me for sending candy and toys to give to the kids over there. He said that the kids started telling them where the bad guys were and also where the IED's were located too!
Hearts and minds of the next generation were being won with candy and toys! What a weapon!
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wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2008 :  10:13:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When I was there kids were putting shaped charges on the doors of vehicles going through town and killing people, so they were telling people to keep kids at a distance. I know a lot of guys used rocks and I seen a few with slingshots in their back pockets, I assume to get better ballistics from said rock. I would personally use the M9 its got to be good for something, and it has about the same stopping power as a slingshot. We rarely rode in vehicles if we needed to move we used helicopters or worse 2 feet.


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jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2008 :  6:03:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was in anti tank companies in the 82nd and 172rd airborne. After I was injured and could no longer jump I found myself doing convoy security in Iraq for 4ID. Which is why after 10 years the Army and I parted ways. In my experiance all US weapons are reliable if you put enough lube on them, it is a misconception not to use oil in the sand. We caried empty water bottles full of motor oil to dump in our weapons incase they jamed and to help cool them in sustaned attack by fire situations.

MK19 MOD3 Great for a stationary position but only marginal for firing on the move. Great target penitration but 16 second flight time at max range.Hard to fire at night.

M2 .50 BMG Good for stoping cars, ok against harder targets. Incredable accuracy day and night with IR laser. Low recoil, but fairly low rate of fire. Very slow hot barrel changes.

M240 high rate of fire makes this a good general purpose machine gun for convoy operation, but will overheat fairly fast in rapid fire.

M60 lower rate of fire than M240 but still good for convoy operations. more suted to dismounted operations where prolonged susrained fire is needed, more dificulte to maintain in sustaned operations.

M249 As far as machine guns go probably the most bang for the buck. light weight one man crew. good rate of fire, In real life there is very few things a 7.62 will shoot threw that a 5.56 will not. Most of the time it is more effective to take two M249s than it is to take one three man M240/M60 crew.

M4/M16A2 Light weight, light ammo, low recoil. To me the greatest advantage of the M4 is not its size, it is on of the only rifles that I have ever seen that from 0-300m you aim center mass of the target and you will hit it. A grate benifit for using it at night. As far as killing power as long as I hurt them bad enough they dont want to fight anymore I have done my job, but most people that bad mouth the 5.56 are people that have never seen someone shot with it, let alone someone hit twice in the chest at close range.

M9 many say it is the most reliable pistol in the world, While handguns are basically for self preservation in combat I did see a fat Iraqi shot with one and he didnt get back up so that is good enough for me to be convinced it will do its job.

When it comes down to being the one on the ground the mission dictates the weapons required. The gun that you rely on the most for your job becomes your weapon of choice because of the comfort level it provides.
























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cce1302
Advanced Member

USA
9720 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2008 :  7:59:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by osubullrider

The M4 (M16 is rarely used...for you old timers...unless you are/were a POG)


M16 is rarely used? by what service? We're still deploying M16A4s by the company; only SNCO & Officers have M4s...
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wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2008 :  11:22:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Semper Fi to all the Marines! I'm new to the forums but I agree with several others, 7.62 nato or .308win. and it just gets better when you link 'em together and run 'em through an m-240 gulf at a cyclic rate of fire!

I like this forum, it's a great outlet. I think my wife is tired of dicussing the finer pionts of modern weaponry and it's effective deployment against various "ihateamericans"

Semper Fi
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wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2008 :  11:25:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BUT, in a pistol it's .45 acp all the way. 9mm? What the hell... Why are we afraid to kill our enemies? That used to be the point of going to war, now we just want them to like us.

Semper Fi
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wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2009 :  02:14:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jsuggs

M240 high rate of fire makes this a good general purpose machine gun for convoy operation, but will overheat fairly fast in rapid fire.

M60 lower rate of fire than M240 but still good for convoy operations. more suted to dismounted operations where prolonged susrained fire is needed, more dificulte to maintain in sustaned operations.

M249 As far as machine guns go probably the most bang for the buck. light weight one man crew. good rate of fire, In real life there is very few things a 7.62 will shoot threw that a 5.56 will not. Most of the time it is more effective to take two M249s than it is to take one three man M240/M60 crew.

M4/M16A2 Light weight, light ammo, low recoil. To me the greatest advantage of the M4 is not its size, it is on of the only rifles that I have ever seen that from 0-300m you aim center mass of the target and you will hit it. A grate benifit for using it at night. As far as killing power as long as I hurt them bad enough they dont want to fight anymore I have done my job, but most people that bad mouth the 5.56 are people that have never seen someone shot with it, let alone someone hit twice in the chest at close range.

M9 many say it is the most reliable pistol in the world, While handguns are basically for self preservation in combat I did see a fat Iraqi shot with one and he didnt get back up so that is good enough for me to be convinced it will do its job.


Have you modified your 240's? all you need is a dremel tool and a skilled hand. you can increase the rate of fire. Both the factory and the armorers say don't do it but their butt is not on the line. I have seen many people shot with a 5.56 and I am going to bad mouth it, its crap, so is 9mm. Get a fanatical taliban jihadist doped up on opium and screaming some incoherent junk about allah running at you shooting, you will change your mind after the 5th shot fails to stop him. 1 short burst from a 240 and its straight to hell for him. Why have 3 people on a 240, you only need 2, 1 if you are mounted. I like the saw its small, light, good rate of fire and easy to field strip clean and put back together. The only problem with the saw is the round it fires. even an upgrade to a .243 would be a major improvement. But thats not what out nato allies use and our politicians use this as an excuse to sell us down the river for political favors. the 6.8 was a great round for a machine gun, for a rifle or machine gun for that matter its hard to beat a 7.62x39. Reliability wise its hard to beat an ak, accuracy wise its easy, try a rock. We carried M16/203's M14's and 240's and a colapsible stock ak on our packs since the ammo is plentiful there. for sidearms we carried mk23's. We were issues M16/203's M4's and 9mm's, the M4's and the 9mm's were returned at the end of deployment unfired. We were ordered by a few officers to use the body armor, gear, and weapons we were issued. Those orders were given their due attention.


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wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2009 :  02:45:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Call me a liar if you must, but I could and would carry a m240 on a sling with a short belt in it and a beretta. I have this pics to prove it. I'm a big guy, it ain't for everybody. As to the nine mil, whata crock! I hated the beretta and found the fit of the slide worthless and the double action unreliable. I was cleaning my m9 one night and happened to look down and see a spring stuck in my AP brush! This was in country. Now, I carry a Sig p220 in .45 or a p229 in .40. They won't let you down and they pack a punch. It seems like the Geneva Convention wants us to play tag with inferior weapons and it would be a shame if anybody actually got killed in war.

Semper Fi
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wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2009 :  1:32:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato

Call me a liar if you must, but I could and would carry a m240 on a sling with a short belt in it and a beretta. I have this pics to prove it. I'm a big guy, it ain't for everybody. As to the nine mil, whata crock! I hated the beretta and found the fit of the slide worthless and the double action unreliable. I was cleaning my m9 one night and happened to look down and see a spring stuck in my AP brush! This was in country. Now, I carry a Sig p220 in .45 or a p229 in .40. They won't let you down and they pack a punch. It seems like the Geneva Convention wants us to play tag with inferior weapons and it would be a shame if anybody actually got killed in war.


The only part that has to do with geneva is the full metal jacket round. We as a nation decided on the 9mm because its what our NATO allies were carrying, yeah BS. Here is the real story, the army had decided to make the blackhawk its utility helicopter and replace the Huey. Italy expressed interest in buying the Hueys didn't want to pay what we wanted for them. At the same time the army wanted to quit using the 45 and the 38 for females, they wanted one weapon that could be fired by a male or female. They wanted high capacity double action with a safety. Of course the average woman's hand is smaller than that of an average man, and recoil is a factor too, The 38 was a good weapon and well suited for what it was used for, although I have taught my wife to shoot my 45 proficiently. Anyways our representatives in Washington elected to protect our interests in national politics decided in their infinite infallable wisdom to seal the deal with the Hueys buy offering a huge lucrative contract to Berretta, an Italian arms manufacturer, in exchange for the Italians buying our used Hueys. That contract was the army's new pistol which at the time was only able to be manufactured in 9mm. Our elected officials sold the military down the river to put money in their pockets. The Marine Corps said no thanks, but the politicians pushed DOD to have 1 universal side arm for all of the armed forces, the rest is history. The same thing with the M16. It was fielded to the army in the 50's by armalite, and the army said hell no its a piece of crap, its plastic it will break, the round is too small to incapacitate the enemy, and it blows carbon back into the bolt, that combined with the presence of dirt which is unavoidable in battle will cause it to jam. Armalite sold its plans to Colt who changed its name to the M16, and presented it to the army in the 60's. It failed the tests but that was covered up, and new tests were done within the capability of the weapon. It of course passed those tests. The M16 was adopted because of immense pressure by Colt, a company with extensive political connections. Bottom line is we were sold down the river in exchange for political favors and money by the people we elected to represent us. And wildeman people have gotten killed because of it, a lot of soldiers and Marines were found dead in Vietnam with their cleaning kits out trying to make their piece of crap weapons work. Several have been killed in Afghanistan with the M4 when they engage a target 10 times with their M4 before they are killed by jihadist taliban doped up on opium and islam.



Edited by - wittynbear on 01/02/2009 1:38:51 PM
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jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2009 :  2:09:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I saw Irquis(huey is slang) all over the world but in the three years I was statione in Italy the only one I saw belonged to a US national guard unit, it was there for us to jump out of.

When the Army changed to the 9mm Colt wanted it to be the Combat Comender, which it designed as a 9mm replacement to the .45ACP. Colts DA prototype, the All American was not ready in time for the test.

Two pistols pased the test the Beretta M9 and the SIG P225.

Due to the quantity purchased congress wanted it to be made in america. Beretta saw the civilian market for a DA 9MM pistol in the states and agreed to manufacture here.

When the Special Operations purchased the SIG, It wasnt because the Beretta didnt work, It was because SIG could get them the guns faster than anyone else could. Enough Berettas were not purchased for all SF and airborne soldiers to have one, the M4 was already on the way, just not in production yet.

When private security groups buy SIG's it is usually pre-owned lease returns. So it is one of the cheapest pistols they can get.

Remember that when you by that high priced SIG, or other european weapon, as much as 40% of the price you pay for it is the export tax from the country it is made in.

The price of a gun has very litle to do with its function and reliability often you are buying a name.
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wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2009 :  08:36:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To wittynbear: I'm a history nerd, it's great to see some light shed on how we ended up with the Beretta. I'd heard that about the M16 before. It's really sad, we use a round that sometime won't keep a coyote down. I've never heard anything good about the Beretta. I find it funny in a sad way that our m240s and 249s are from belgium and our side arms are Italian. I wonder how many American jobs that created? At least the Ma Deuce is American.

P.S. If you on Camp Pendleton you should shoot coyotes, ther's so many of the meanies.

Semper Fi
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