GunBroker.com Message Forums
Review our Posting Guidelines
GunBroker.com Message Forums
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?   Trouble / Can't log in?

 All Forums
 GunBroker.com Message Forums
 US Military Veteran Forum - Gulf Wars
 Weapon of choice
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2009 :  08:45:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To jsuggs: You are buying a name everytime you buy a Colt. They ain't cheap. Especially revolvers. I'll defend Sig. They've got an easy to take down design with good out of the box accuracy. I've shot my P220 next to expensive Colts and Kimbers and wasn't convinced to buy either of them. I love the 1911 but the Sig works for me. I don't really buy into names. I use what works for me. I'll drive a Ford until the day they let me down and I'll do the same with guns.

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2009 :  12:28:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato

To wittynbear: I'm a history nerd, it's great to see some light shed on how we ended up with the Beretta. I'd heard that about the M16 before. It's really sad, we use a round that sometime won't keep a coyote down. I've never heard anything good about the Beretta. I find it funny in a sad way that our m240s and 249s are from belgium and our side arms are Italian. I wonder how many American jobs that created? At least the Ma Deuce is American.

P.S. If you on Camp Pendleton you should shoot coyotes, ther's so many of the meanies.



I love the Ma Duece but it was too heavy for us, so we didn't use it. We liked to pack lots of heavy firepower but we went out in small teams for weeks at a time and had to carry food, lots of ammo, explosives, and several weapons. I have never been to Iraq I was wounded in Afghanistan and that ended my career. I heard through the grapevine that they experimented with putting us in vehicles, that is by far the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. I was never at Pendleton, I visited there for a week to see a friend but was never stationed there. I was stationed at Lejeune and Okinawa the whole time I was in, save for 3 years of MSG. I was never a hollywood Marine, didn't get issued a beach towel, suntan lotion, and sunglasses. I did go to CAX several times from Lejeune and encounter coyote's there. They were smart, they seemed to know we had MRE's and didn't have real rounds. We shattered their belief system when we managed to obtain .223 rounds. One shot to the head at about 50 ft and they drop like a rock. If you shoot them anywhere else they yelp and jump around for what seems like eternity, but really just long enough for a follow up shot.


Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2009 :  04:41:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry to hear your career ended, I hope you've been able to put your life back on track. My career wasn't as illustious but I fell rappeling at Bridgeport and wrecked my neck and shoulder. That ended my reenlistment package in a hellfast and a hurry. I have some knowledge of what it's like. The civilian sector sucks. Good luck to you. Out of the three of us from my little hometown who went into the Marines I'm the only one who didn't get medboarded due to injuries sustained in combat. The other two have purple hearts and dog me, saying I took the easy road. They got medboarded too.

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2009 :  04:49:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ps: I'm still getting awful flashbacks from a bad case of sunburn I got chasing bikini clad women for PT. West coast Pt is brutal, do you know how hard it is to run in the sand and not spill your Mai-tai. I love those little unbrellas! I guess the West Coast is the best coast means nothing to you?

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2009 :  6:51:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Current production M2's are made in Belgum.

The Beretta was made in the US. There is many articles on the internet about it. I like the Beretta and own one. Alot of the recent problems with it are due to age(many are about 20 years old). Most need depot level rebuilds. There are mot many excess in the system so it would be easier to buy new pistols.

On the ground you dont care where a gun is made only that it works.
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2009 :  3:19:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato

Sorry to hear your career ended, I hope you've been able to put your life back on track. My career wasn't as illustious but I fell rappeling at Bridgeport and wrecked my neck and shoulder. That ended my reenlistment package in a hellfast and a hurry. I have some knowledge of what it's like. The civilian sector sucks. Good luck to you. Out of the three of us from my little hometown who went into the Marines I'm the only one who didn't get medboarded due to injuries sustained in combat. The other two have purple hearts and dog me, saying I took the easy road. They got medboarded too.

Ps: I'm still getting awful flashbacks from a bad case of sunburn I got chasing bikini clad women for PT. West coast Pt is brutal, do you know how hard it is to run in the sand and not spill your Mai-tai. I love those little unbrellas! I guess the West Coast is the best coast means nothing to you?


I have had several jobs and never really felt like I fit in. I drink too much, get up to early, have too much of a potty mouth, I feel like a fish out of water. I had a decent civilian job working for the army doing physical security. It was pretty cool I worked at the PMO for the Provost Marshal. We got a new PM who wanted to run things like it was sept 10 2001. We butted heads on many occasions, I come into work with a pretty bad hangover one day and in no mood for his crap. He come in my office yelling about security measures I put in place while he was on leave. I told him the garrison commander approved it in his absence. He flipped his retard switch and demanded that they be taken down. I told him I quit you take it down and go f--k yourself in front of the God and everybody. I found out he a (LtCol) is being reassigned in an Lt's position on a general's staff in Iraq, which is the only way he can salvage his career. I am looking for a job now. I am going to try police, security, or corrections. I really don't have any marketable job skills other than what I did in the Corps, and thats not in really high demand. I thought about blackwater but I think they are on their way down and don't want to be part of a sinking company. I need to get a job driving a truck for budweiser that would be pretty cool, but there are no beer distributors around here. I would go elsewhere but I am kind of tied down with a wife, kid, and house.

How did you fall rapelling? I never even heard of someone falling while rapelling, when I was there a guy who died he suffocated in his snow cave.

You think west coast pt is bad try okinawa pt. Chasing Japanese women to see if other things are slanted like their eyes. I don't know about Mai-Tai's but I know that its hard run and not spill a beer. West coast is not the best coast, although probably better than Swamp Lagoon, Okinawa is better, but embassy duty is the best.


Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2009 :  3:22:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jsuggs

Current production M2's are made in Belgum.

The Beretta was made in the US. There is many articles on the internet about it. I like the Beretta and own one. Alot of the recent problems with it are due to age(many are about 20 years old). Most need depot level rebuilds. There are mot many excess in the system so it would be easier to buy new pistols.

On the ground you dont care where a gun is made only that it works.



I have no question about the reliability of the beretta, for accuracy yes it needs to be rebuilt or replaced. The biggest problem with the beretta is its 9mm, and they can't fix that. You are almost better off pistol whipping the enemy than shooting them with the beretta.


Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2009 :  4:04:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
unfortinuately 9MM and 5.56 are what you get when you enlist/reenlist.

After the first year of fighting in OIF the Army ammo surplus was almost totally depleted. All current production ammo was being shiped directly to Iraq and Afganastan. Due to demand the Army bought British ammo (5.56 and 9MM) for training. Knowing this I do support the NATO ammo theory.

If the Army switched calabers to something non NATO/Warsaw mid fight you may have something with more knockdown but there would be a siver ammo shortage. These are the only calabers that are set up for the production required of a war gun.

Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2009 :  10:49:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wittynbear

quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato

Sorry to hear your career ended, I hope you've been able to put your life back on track. My career wasn't as illustious but I fell rappeling at Bridgeport and wrecked my neck and shoulder. That ended my reenlistment package in a hellfast and a hurry. I have some knowledge of what it's like. The civilian sector sucks. Good luck to you. Out of the three of us from my little hometown who went into the Marines I'm the only one who didn't get medboarded due to injuries sustained in combat. The other two have purple hearts and dog me, saying I took the easy road. They got medboarded too.

Ps: I'm still getting awful flashbacks from a bad case of sunburn I got chasing bikini clad women for PT. West coast Pt is brutal, do you know how hard it is to run in the sand and not spill your Mai-tai. I love those little unbrellas! I guess the West Coast is the best coast means nothing to you?


I have had several jobs and never really felt like I fit in. I drink too much, get up to early, have too much of a potty mouth, I feel like a fish out of water. I had a decent civilian job working for the army doing physical security. It was pretty cool I worked at the PMO for the Provost Marshal. We got a new PM who wanted to run things like it was sept 10 2001. We butted heads on many occasions, I come into work with a pretty bad hangover one day and in no mood for his crap. He come in my office yelling about security measures I put in place while he was on leave. I told him the garrison commander approved it in his absence. He flipped his retard switch and demanded that they be taken down. I told him I quit you take it down and go f--k yourself in front of the God and everybody. I found out he a (LtCol) is being reassigned in an Lt's position on a general's staff in Iraq, which is the only way he can salvage his career. I am looking for a job now. I am going to try police, security, or corrections. I really don't have any marketable job skills other than what I did in the Corps, and thats not in really high demand. I thought about blackwater but I think they are on their way down and don't want to be part of a sinking company. I need to get a job driving a truck for budweiser that would be pretty cool, but there are no beer distributors around here. I would go elsewhere but I am kind of tied down with a wife, kid, and house.

How did you fall rapelling? I never even heard of someone falling while rapelling, when I was there a guy who died he suffocated in his snow cave.

You think west coast pt is bad try okinawa pt. Chasing Japanese women to see if other things are slanted like their eyes. I don't know about Mai-Tai's but I know that its hard run and not spill a beer. West coast is not the best coast, although probably better than Swamp Lagoon, Okinawa is better, but embassy duty is the best.



I was trying to get around a crevice, got almost to a 45 degree angle, lost my footing, slammed head/shoulder first into a rock with my break hand behind my back. It was kind of like something Tarzan would do. Sucked it up for awhile 'cause thats what Marines do or so my Gunny said. A few months later we were training to do a raid/detainee extract and while mounting up my driver asked if we were up and I said "NO!" and he thought I said go. I got thrown out of the truck, couldn't use my arm so I got taken to medical and they said my shoulder was torn up and my collar bone had been broken for months along with signs I'd injured my neck. I hate civilan life, I'm in VOC-Rehab. It's a good program, better than the GI bill. My first job out I got into trouble for saying what needed to be said. And apparently, poor performing co-workers are not "b@#$%s" and can not be refered to as thus. I tried selling cars but with the way I walked, talked, and shook hands they were worried about getting robbed or getting beaten to death if they didn't agree with me. Now I'm going to school for law enforcement. You should look a seattle or anchorage. They're hiring.

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2009 :  02:25:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]I was trying to get around a crevice, got almost to a 45 degree angle, lost my footing, slammed head/shoulder first into a rock with my break hand behind my back. It was kind of like something Tarzan would do. Sucked it up for awhile 'cause thats what Marines do or so my Gunny said. A few months later we were training to do a raid/detainee extract and while mounting up my driver asked if we were up and I said "NO!" and he thought I said go. I got thrown out of the truck, couldn't use my arm so I got taken to medical and they said my shoulder was torn up and my collar bone had been broken for months along with signs I'd injured my neck. I hate civilan life, I'm in VOC-Rehab. It's a good program, better than the GI bill. My first job out I got into trouble for saying what needed to be said. And apparently, poor performing co-workers are not "b@#$%s" and can not be refered to as thus. I tried selling cars but with the way I walked, talked, and shook hands they were worried about getting robbed or getting beaten to death if they didn't agree with me. Now I'm going to school for law enforcement. You should look a seattle or anchorage. They're hiring.

That sucks, I guess your Gunny didn't know the difference between hurt and injured. If your hurt you suck it up, if your injured you get treated at the first availiable opportunity. I used to order my Marines to get checked out if I saw them limping, or favoring one arm or the other because some people confuse being hard with being stupid, like your Gunny. I don't want something minor keeping my guys out of the next firefight when it doesn't have to. On the same hand I have seen crybabys too, those admin or supply POGs who go spend all day at BAS to avoid work.
My first job out of the Corps. I tried working at target, I told the manager flat out that I couldn't stand stupid people and asked to be assigned stocking shelves at night. He put me on the floor during the day. I was wearing a red vest and a name tag it was obvious who I was. I had a lady ask me "Is your name Josh?" I said no maam I killed Josh, pissed on him and threw his dead decaying carcass in the dumpster. I am walking around with his uniform on to see how many people will ask me stupid questions. I guess the manager did not see the humor and fired me. I tried working at a gas station overnight, a guy come in with a knife to rob the place, I knew by the look in his eyes he was really scarred, so I told him to go away before he gets hurt. He jumped over the counter at me and I took his knife away from him and slapped him around a little bit and threw him out. The owner fired me for not calling him and the police, what a wus. I got the job with the army, they don't know how to treat people, and they act like a bunch of retards. I thought about Anchorage but they require you to go there twice in the hiring process. That is too far from alabama and not cheap for no guarantees, plus my wife hates the cold weather, especially when I turn off the heater because its too hot inside and I don't like the severe temp change from inside to out.


Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2009 :  06:05:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I'm from Minnesota and Anchorage is actually warmer for me. If you get into Voc-rehab my counselor said that they can help with traveling to interviews. You only have to go once to Alaska, the indoc you can do in Chicago or Minneapolis. Maybe try Seattle, or LA. That's probably more dodging bullets then Iraq. Civilians are afraid of us. They don't know how to approach us and are often intimidated. A guy at work kept lying and I called him out, then I said few this like "Don't you have any &%@#ing integrity?". I also mentioned the world would be a better place without him and that he should expedite that with a handgun. I also have a hard time not getting into fights with people who run thier mouth about being tougher than a Marine. One guy said he fought three Marines at once and won. When he said he wanted to fight, he really meant wrestle. I used my fists and knees. Oops. I can't keep out of trouble. I need a job that matters, where I can help people or something.

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2009 :  06:15:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jsuggs

unfortinuately 9MM and 5.56 are what you get when you enlist/reenlist.

After the first year of fighting in OIF the Army ammo surplus was almost totally depleted. All current production ammo was being shiped directly to Iraq and Afganastan. Due to demand the Army bought British ammo (5.56 and 9MM) for training. Knowing this I do support the NATO ammo theory.

If the Army switched calabers to something non NATO/Warsaw mid fight you may have something with more knockdown but there would be a siver ammo shortage. These are the only calabers that are set up for the production required of a war gun.

We are one of the most industrialized nations. In WWII we turned out Millions of .30-06, .45 acp, and .30 carbine. Those weren't cartridges used by all the allies and they got the job done. Nato is a joke anyway. We shouldn't base the safety of our Marines and Soldiers on what Europe wants. We spend way to much time bending over for them and not enough time persecuting the people who like to set up IEDs and fly air planes into our buildings. Screw the Geneva convention, put an anti-armor .50bmg through a towelhead and see if he gets up after that!




Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2009 :  5:41:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Switching service rifles midway threw a war dosnt make since to me. Neather does using a round that is not combat proven. Too many problems when the M16 first came out. Everything from lack of parts and cleaning kits to inexperiance with the weapon. Both of which cost alot of brave men their lifes.

Why not just issue the team leaders the colt submachine gun, full auto, 9mm version of the M4. Greatly improved knock down power at close range, when used with NATO 147 grain 9mm SMG ammo which we and many countries already produce and use in the MP5, UZI, Beretta SMG, and others. It uses mostly the same repair parts, can be used with all of the modular weapon system acesseries, i think it even uses the same ammo pouches. All things that must be adressed for a combat weapon. It would be like a modern day thommy gun. But a gun that can be filded rapidly so that it can make a impact on the wars that we are curently in.

It takes years to develop a rifle/round for military use. Even longer to test and field. Everyone always dreams of a perfict rifle that will never exist. Weapons mix will always give the best results, since no one gun can do it all. In that mix of machine guns, rifles and pistols, the full auto submachine gun is often needed for that up close knockdown power.

By the way I have seen people hit with the .50 cal. What else would you expect when someone is hit by a heavy MG other than that. I also spent plenty of time road marching with the 60 pound reciver on my ruck. Not very practical, very slow manuver. I think we averaged less than 3MPH. But then again young soldiers think the Barret is heavy.
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2009 :  6:47:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We usually carried about 75 lbs of gear 35lbs of ammo plus the weapons, and radios. Explosives, batteries, extra ammo, AT4, and etc. were divided up, and that could add some serious weight. The Barrett is not heavy, its heavier than an M40 but its manageable. Our teams had Barretts but we didn't use them, so they were left locked away while we went out. Our sinper spotter teams carried and M40 and it works perfectly. If we needed anything heavier we called for air support or artillery. I was very impressed with artillery there always on target and it didn't take long at all. The key to a successful mission is no officers, leave them in basecamp. They go out and want to do everything and just screw it up, no thanks, butterbar stays behind. I was impressed with the air support too, the AF A-10's were an awesome display of firepower, Cobra's were awesome, as were navy and Marine Corps jets. The only one's I wasn't impressed with was the Apache's the atmy makes them out to be a super bird and the Cobras did much better everytime hands down. Before someone thinks I am bashing on the army, I'm not even though it is a favorite pasttime of mine. I will say the army did a great job with the Chinooks in Afghanistan. It was the only one that could go to the higher elevations and they really stepped up to the plate there.


Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2009 :  04:59:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[quote]Originally posted by wittynbear
We worked with Cobras too. What a great feeling to see that shadow in front of your Humvee. Them Snake drivers can really put a hurtin' on anybody dumb enough to piss off a convoy with one flying cover!

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2009 :  05:02:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm starting to rethink my weapon of choice in Iraq. I was thinking... maybe something subtle... like an A-bomb. Maybe we should get the towelheads one for Ramadan?

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2009 :  4:40:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Apache is probably one of the best anti-tank helocopters in the world, and one of the worst close air support helocopters in the world. It is designed to fire from near the max engagement of its weapons, which is good for its survival but very bad for close in work. Maby I just have a grudge since I was almost shot by one providing my platoon CAS in Iraq(a burst of 50 HE cannon rounds hit literally less than 10ft away from me). The Cobra along with most Marine aircraft is very versital anything you need from anti-tank to CAS. Makes you wonder why the Army didnt keep them.
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2009 :  10:51:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Army and the Air Force seem to be obsessed with the most expensive shiny toys. Look at the F-22 Raptor, who can compete with the planes we have now? The JSF is much cheaper and the Marine Corps and the Navy had a big part in that. The Army believes it can make up for lack of training with more tecnological gear. Look at the Land Warrior System, I wouldn't want to carry that crap. Soldiers now have so many optics, lasers, flashlights, and other crap yet they neglect to train with thier iron sights. This is not just another Jarhead bashing on the Army, that's coming from a my uncle and cousin who are both career Army. More gear, more weight, more MONEY!
quote:
Originally posted by jsuggs

The Apache is probably one of the best anti-tank helocopters in the world, and one of the worst close air support helocopters in the world. It is designed to fire from near the max engagement of its weapons, which is good for its survival but very bad for close in work. Maby I just have a grudge since I was almost shot by one providing my platoon CAS in Iraq(a burst of 50 HE cannon rounds hit literally less than 10ft away from me). The Cobra along with most Marine aircraft is very versital anything you need from anti-tank to CAS. Makes you wonder why the Army didnt keep them.


Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2009 :  10:54:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Whatever happened to the Army's Comanche program anyway? Wasn't that supposed to be the best all around stealth helo ever?
quote:
Originally posted by jsuggs

The Apache is probably one of the best anti-tank helocopters in the world, and one of the worst close air support helocopters in the world. It is designed to fire from near the max engagement of its weapons, which is good for its survival but very bad for close in work. Maby I just have a grudge since I was almost shot by one providing my platoon CAS in Iraq(a burst of 50 HE cannon rounds hit literally less than 10ft away from me). The Cobra along with most Marine aircraft is very versital anything you need from anti-tank to CAS. Makes you wonder why the Army didnt keep them.


Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2009 :  3:59:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The same thing that happened to the M8 light tank. $$$$$. Clinton put the military so far behind in aquisitions of new equipment that they still arnt even close to being able to buy the comanchie yet. Probably gone forever.
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2009 :  9:19:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There's alot of R&D wasted! Like the Raptor progam, spent so much money develpoing it that now we can't afford to buy it.

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2009 :  10:16:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato

Whatever happened to the Army's Comanche program anyway? Wasn't that supposed to be the best all around stealth helo ever?

I know the cammanche was done away with after all the money was spent on research and development. They even spent millions on a building dedicated to the commache with simulators and everything. About a week before it opened the program was cancelled now that building is used for something else, another square peg in a round hole, the military is good for that. As for the apache, I have had more accurate fire from 155mm howitzers 20k away. I don't know if its the apache thats a piece of crap or the pilot, but after almost being killed 2 out of 2 times, we said thats it no more apaches.


Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2009 :  10:19:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato

I'm starting to rethink my weapon of choice in Iraq. I was thinking... maybe something subtle... like an A-bomb. Maybe we should get the towelheads one for Ramadan?


I couldn't agree more I think we should repay them for all the favors they have done for us like a 757 stuffed full of pigs and fuel crashed into the middle of mecca on the holiest day of the muslim year, and send all of your favorite raghead dictators an Abomb for Christmas, special air delivery by the usaf.


Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2009 :  10:25:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato

The Army believes it can make up for lack of training with more tecnological gear. Look at the Land Warrior System, I wouldn't want to carry that crap. Soldiers now have so many optics, lasers, flashlights, and other crap yet they neglect to train with thier iron sights. This is not just another Jarhead bashing on the Army, that's coming from a my uncle and cousin who are both career Army. More gear, more weight, more MONEY!

The army, navy, and airforce all ask what does it do, and what does it cost. The Marines want to know what does that hunk of poop weigh.


Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2009 :  11:59:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
so what rifle/pistol would you want to carry?
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2009 :  01:09:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

quote:
Originally posted by jsuggs

so what rifle/pistol would you want to carry?


I would want to design my own rifle because I don't really like anything out there for rifles. I want something with a titanium body and bolt and a heavy tension bolt spring to pulverize dirt like the AK. I want a gas piston design to eliminate the carbon fouling problem of the M16 series rifles. I want a folding and collapsable stock for parachuting, and urban ops. It needs a flash suppressor, a nickel lined barrel and action for the dirty fire ability of the AK. I want a watertight bolt so the weapon can be fired completely or partially underwater. I want at least 30 round mags, I would be satisfied with the 7.62x51 even better would be .30cal (30.06). I want a long reinforced magazine well as on the M16 series. I want a selector lever for safe, semi, 2 shot burst instead of the 3, and full auto. I would want a 20mm barrel on the bottom that can fire a 20mm ap round to take out armor, and have a round made that fires a 20mm grenade well over the range of the 203. I want a bipod incorporated ointo the bottom of the rifle. I want folding reflex sights under the scope for daytime and IR lasers with nightvision and thermal imaging scope for nighttime I also want the scope to work in daytime with at least 10x magnification, along with backup iron sights. That about does it for a rifle, if it was manufactured it would be very expensive but well worth it. I estimate the weight without ammo and mags to be about 10 to 10 1/2 pounds, not much heavier than the M1 Garand with many more features. For a pistol I want a ParaOrdinance Hicap LDA 14.45 but I want it in traditional double action instead of DAO and I want it in black instead of stainless. This would be easy to manufacture but no one makes it. If I had to choose from available weapons I would take the SOCOM 16 with a collapsible stock and the ParaOrdinance 14.45 LDA.



Edited by - wittynbear on 07/24/2009 9:02:03 PM
Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2009 :  4:32:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would probably go with the M4A1, with a IR laser, ACOG, and back up sight. I would add a choped down 12 gauge pump breach gun under the barrel. I dont know If you have ever seen one of the 870's that are cut down to hold 2 rounds in the mag, and one in the chamber or not. It mounts to the bayonet lug and you use the rifle mag as the pistol grip. Extra full choke, good little gun for close range.

And the 1911A1 with Novac sights, and CTC laser grips.

Have you ever shot a FAL? It is similar to the rifle you describe but in 7.62 NATO. Good gun but not quite my taste, You would probably like it.
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  2:39:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jsuggs

Have you ever shot a FAL? It is similar to the rifle you describe but in 7.62 NATO. Good gun but not quite my taste, You would probably like it.



I have never shot the FAL but I have seen it a few times. I still want to build my own and someday when I win the lotto I will. First I have to get AL to have a lotto.


Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  5:18:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dont the soviets have a 30MM version of the M203 that has more range? I remember it from somewhear. Maby it is Isreal that has it, so many weapons out there its hard to remember them all.

What I missed toward the end of my service was the LAW. While it didnt have the power of the AT4 it was small, light weight, built in range finder, and night sights. Only about 4 pounds everyone could carry one, no fancy rigging required to jump or repel it in. It was also alot more accurate.

I dont blame you for wanting to build your own gun. I have a idea for a air dropable ruberised track Infantry fighting vehicle of my own. Maby someday I will have the chance to build it.
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2009 :  03:06:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jsuggs

so what rifle/pistol would you want to carry?



There will never be a firearm that meets all needs, really you have to pick and choose something that meets your mission's basic requirements without comprimising your ability to effectively close with and engage your enemy. I would choose something that puts 'em down and keeps 'em down. Many of the new Mission Adapdable Systems are heavy and have too many parts. I hated carrying the M16/m203 because it had to much weight on the forend for hasty off-hand shots. I would rather carry a seperate light wieght grenage launcher. Check out H&K, they have a couple of light weight options. If I had to go into a bad situation tommarrow I'd say it would be an M-14 SOCOM, I know alot of people say the whole "socom" stuff is for gear atypicals but thats not why I like it. It points fast and is compatable with many different optics, plus it has a round with some power and the balistics for some down range actiona and has tried and true reliablity. You could even mount a picatinny rail compatable grenade launcher on it. I would also carry a Sig Sauer P220 in .45acp or 1911. Who needs alot of rounds when a few well placed ones will do? If anybody hollers about needing high cap mags for suppression, I'm just saying this selection is for the rifleman only or a singlely armed individual not for a whole platoon who has to do fire and maneuver.

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2009 :  03:09:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wittynbear

quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato

Whatever happened to the Army's Comanche program anyway? Wasn't that supposed to be the best all around stealth helo ever?

I know the cammanche was done away with after all the money was spent on research and development. They even spent millions on a building dedicated to the commache with simulators and everything. About a week before it opened the program was cancelled now that building is used for something else, another square peg in a round hole, the military is good for that. As for the apache, I have had more accurate fire from 155mm howitzers 20k away. I don't know if its the apache thats a piece of crap or the pilot, but after almost being killed 2 out of 2 times, we said thats it no more apaches.

To give the ARMY it's due, we had a couple of good Air support mission with Apaches.


Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2009 :  8:17:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato


There will never be a firearm that meets all needs, really you have to pick and choose something that meets your mission's basic requirements without comprimising your ability to effectively close with and engage your enemy. I would choose something that puts 'em down and keeps 'em down. Many of the new Mission Adapdable Systems are heavy and have too many parts. I hated carrying the M16/m203 because it had to much weight on the forend for hasty off-hand shots. I would rather carry a seperate light wieght grenage launcher. Check out H&K, they have a couple of light weight options. If I had to go into a bad situation tommarrow I'd say it would be an M-14 SOCOM, I know alot of people say the whole "socom" stuff is for gear atypicals but thats not why I like it. It points fast and is compatable with many different optics, plus it has a round with some power and the balistics for some down range actiona and has tried and true reliablity. You could even mount a picatinny rail compatable grenade launcher on it. I would also carry a Sig Sauer P220 in .45acp or 1911. Who needs alot of rounds when a few well placed ones will do? If anybody hollers about needing high cap mags for suppression, I'm just saying this selection is for the rifleman only or a singlely armed individual not for a whole platoon who has to do fire and maneuver.


You bring up a good point about the Socom 16 and the 1911 but I have to disagree with you on a few points. 1st I would want the 1911 in a high capacity, and with a traditional double action, thats your ohpoop weapon, and usually you don'y have too much space for pouches which is where hicap comes in handy. 2nd Yes, well placed shots are important, but capacity is important too especially when space is at a premium and you are going out for weeks at a time not knowing what you will be up against. You don't have to use all the ammo because you have it, but its certainly nice not to run out and have to rely on luck to get back alive. 3rd I HATE picatinny rails, I cut my hand open real good with one and spent 2 weeks trying to keep it from getting infected in one of the dirtiest places on this earth. I would rather tape everything to my weapon. One rail on top is not bad but I have seen gear atypicals with rails everywhere. I would rather not have it if its not permanently attached.


Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  03:52:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You bring up a good point about the Socom 16 and the 1911 but I have to disagree with you on a few points. 1st I would want the 1911 in a high capacity, and with a traditional double action, thats your ohpoop weapon, and usually you don'y have too much space for pouches which is where hicap comes in handy. 2nd Yes, well placed shots are important, but capacity is important too especially when space is at a premium and you are going out for weeks at a time not knowing what you will be up against. You don't have to use all the ammo because you have it, but its certainly nice not to run out and have to rely on luck to get back alive. 3rd I HATE picatinny rails, I cut my hand open real good with one and spent 2 weeks trying to keep it from getting infected in one of the dirtiest places on this earth. I would rather tape everything to my weapon. One rail on top is not bad but I have seen gear atypicals with rails everywhere. I would rather not have it if its not permanently attached.
[/quote]


Well, I'd stick with the Spingfield M1A Socom. There are multiple versions, ideally I'd have the intermediate barrel with a compensator. The other thing I like is that the picatinny system is modular and not necesarry for operation. So, take it off if you don't like it. I'm sure you've seen guys qualify with M4s or other shorter M16 platform rifles. There are a lot of people who are starting to rethink barrel length. That's why I say Intermediate barrel length for maximum MOUT performance and good out to 500 meters or more. When you start to talk highcap in .45 it leads to alot of carbine talk. I see the need to have extra ammo for your side arm and have it excessible but I knew a guy in Iraq who had 8 mags for his 1911 on a chest rig as well as his M16amgs and more M16 mags on a droprig on his left leg. Now you kinda have to talk gear because with the proper distribution you could make it work. I would rather pack more ammo for my primary weapon with it;s extended range and in the case of the M1A1, it's knockdown power. Would you use you side arm that much in your expirience that you would want that much more weight? I know the load out is different for the missions you did but I always sufficed with 6mags on my flak 1mag in the weapon 6mags in a bandoleer in my daypack and 4mags for my side arm if I was carrying a rifle. That's 390rds for the rifle and 60 for the sidearm!

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  03:54:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While the SOCOM stuff is just a marketing ploy for gear atypicals and wannabes, It's still really functional and effective.

Semper Fi

Edited by - wildeman.7.62nato on 01/21/2009 03:55:02 AM
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  03:57:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just curious Wittynbear, what do you think of MARSOC instead of Force Recon? Do you think they're throwing away history or it's just the natural progression of things? I know it's a little off topic but I had to ask.

Semper Fi

Edited by - wildeman.7.62nato on 01/21/2009 03:58:36 AM
Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  5:08:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think that the SOCOM M14 is a great choice for a senior rifleman or designated marksman. Good range in the open, good power to stop a car up close if you need to. I never liked the piMassengill rail so I did not have one on my M4. All I had on it was a PAQ4 which I used to mark targets at nite. It was mounted with the old style barrel clamp under the top handguard. As far as ammo goes you will always find a way to carry the ammo that you need. I usually carried 6 rifle mags on the front of my vest then 6 more in a saw ammo pouch on the back. It helped me keep my balance. I also carried 4 pistol mags, 1 smoke, 1 frag, binos, compuss, pistol holster, etc, all on my vest. Then a radio, water, and whatever else I needed for the mission in my Assault pack. Once you get use to the weight of your vest why would you take anything out of it? If my mission came down to me actually having to use my pistol as a primarry firearm. It is time for me to take my toys and go home. So I do not see the need for a high capacity or even double action pistols to be used. They are not your primary weapon and should remain as simple as possable.
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  6:33:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato

Just curious Wittynbear, what do you think of MARSOC instead of Force Recon? Do you think they're throwing away history or it's just the natural progression of things? I know it's a little off topic but I had to ask.


On the surface it looks good, but when you really think of it the Corps is getting buttraped. Marines have been sent to SOCOM before the problem was after the mission they were required for SOCOM didn't want to let them go back to FMF. It was really a hassle, so much so that every Commandant since has refused to put Marines under SOCOM. The Marine Corps does more with less, and it is a considerable cost to train Marines to be Recon Marines, Force Recon, then going blackside into DA. That equates to a considerable amount of money, time, experience, and expertise that is being wasted by the Marine Corps by sending them to SOCOM, because when that happens The Corps loses operational control of those Marines. Granted they are an asset to SOCOM, but it also represents an asset that is lost to the Marine Corps. It would be the same as building 3 helicopters and then just giving one away, same concept for your average Force Recon Marine woking blackside, everytime one is lost thats time, money, training, and ability that is worth $7M flushed down the tubes because SOCOM will not give them back. That is experience and capability that is lost to the FMF and to whichever MEU they would have been assigned to. Is the Marine Corps getting away from Special Operations Capability with every MEU? I certainly hope not. I seriously doubt if they can pull Marines from SOCOM to go on a float for 6 months. That degrades the ability of the MEUSOC. It means rushing Recon Marines through training, or cutting out some courses, in the name of speed to be able to field enough to cover SOCOM and operational commitments. In the long run it means lower quality, for higher quantity, and I don't like it at all. I just want to know who was smoking what kind of batshat to ok this.



Edited by - wittynbear on 07/24/2009 9:03:08 PM
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  6:39:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jsuggs

If my mission came down to me actually having to use my pistol as a primarry firearm. It is time for me to take my toys and go home. So I do not see the need for a high capacity or even double action pistols to be used. They are not your primary weapon and should remain as simple as possable.


I'm guessing you were never going through the caves of Afghanistan looking for the ever elusive, very rich, 7 foot arab on dialysis and his buddies. It gets very cramped and too small for a rifle. Many times we only went in with a stripped vest, a knife, a pistol, 4 extra mags, and flashlight.



Edited by - wittynbear on 01/21/2009 6:57:12 PM
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  6:43:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato

Well, I'd stick with the Spingfield M1A Socom. There are multiple versions, ideally I'd have the intermediate barrel with a compensator. The other thing I like is that the picatinny system is modular and not necesarry for operation. So, take it off if you don't like it. I'm sure you've seen guys qualify with M4s or other shorter M16 platform rifles. There are a lot of people who are starting to rethink barrel length. That's why I say Intermediate barrel length for maximum MOUT performance and good out to 500 meters or more. When you start to talk highcap in .45 it leads to alot of carbine talk. I see the need to have extra ammo for your side arm and have it excessible but I knew a guy in Iraq who had 8 mags for his 1911 on a chest rig as well as his M16amgs and more M16 mags on a droprig on his left leg. Now you kinda have to talk gear because with the proper distribution you could make it work. I would rather pack more ammo for my primary weapon with it;s extended range and in the case of the M1A1, it's knockdown power. Would you use you side arm that much in your expirience that you would want that much more weight? I know the load out is different for the missions you did but I always sufficed with 6mags on my flak 1mag in the weapon 6mags in a bandoleer in my daypack and 4mags for my side arm if I was carrying a rifle. That's 390rds for the rifle and 60 for the sidearm!



We went out for weeks at a time, resupply was not always reliable. Typically I carried on my vest 12 rifle mags, 6 grenades, 4 pistol mags, a small flashlight, a knife, a dump pouch, a pistol with a mag, 4 quarts of water, and NVGs. I also carried a pack with, 2 camel backs, a water purifier, 18 extra rifle mags, a radio, 6 batteries, a few pounds of c4, a couple claymores, an extra set of clothes and boots, 2 sets of polypros, Cold weather gear, and probably about 30 field stripped MREs. Then I would have my rifle with a magazine. I had my pistol dropped on my right leg and the dump pouch on my left.



Edited by - wittynbear on 01/21/2009 6:57:46 PM
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  12:17:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wittynbear

quote:
Originally posted by wittynbear

quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato

Just curious Wittynbear, what do you think of MARSOC instead of Force Recon? Do you think they're throwing away history or it's just the natural progression of things? I know it's a little off topic but I had to ask.


On the surface it looks good, but when you really think of it the Corps is getting buttraped. Marines have been sent to SOCOM before the problem was after the mission they were required for SOCOM didn't want to let them go back to FMF. It was really a hassle, so much so that every Commandant since has refused to put Marines under SOCOM. The Marine Corps does more with less, and it is a considerable cost to train Marines to be Recon Marines, Force Recon, then going blackside into DA. That equates to a considerable amount of money, time, experience, and expertise that is being wasted by the Marine Corps by sending them to SOCOM, because when that happens The Corps loses operational control of those Marines. Granted they are an asset to SOCOM, but it also represents an asset that is lost to the Marine Corps. It would be the same as building 3 helicopters and then just giving one away, same concept for your average Force Recon Marine woking blackside, everytime one is lost thats time, money, training, and ability that is worth $7M flushed down the tubes because SOCOM will not give them back. That is experience and capability that is lost to the FMF and to whichever MEU they would have been assigned to. Is the Marine Corps getting away from Special Operations Capability with every MEU? I certainly hope not. I seriously doubt if they can pull Marines from SOCOM to go on a float for 6 months. That degrades the ability of the MEUSOC. It means rushing Recon Marines through training, or cutting out some courses, in the name of speed to be able to field enough to cover SOCOM and operational commitments. In the long run it means lower quality, for higher quantity, and I don't like it at all. I just want to know who was smoking what kind of batshat to ok this.





My little brother's a real motivator, he is thinking about taking the indoc. I told him he has to put some real thought into it, he just got the unit and duty station he wanted for reenlisting. Nothing wrong with it as a career choice. Any advice for the kid?

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  02:30:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato


My little brother's a real motivator, he is thinking about taking the indoc. I told him he has to put some real thought into it, he just got the unit and duty station he wanted for reenlisting. Nothing wrong with it as a career choice. Any advice for the kid?


I sent you an email.



Edited by - wittynbear on 01/22/2009 02:32:05 AM
Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  3:29:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I dont know much about the Marines since I was in the Army. It seems to me that the Marines need to look at a multiple level special operations system like the Army has. At the top SF/Delta then below them Ranger then below them as mission dictates Airborne. The advantage of this is that there is a clear priority for personel, and if a unit needs people there is a very defined way to get augmentation of personel or atachment from lower units. These atachments may not have as much training, but are still highly trained. I think that this is better than just pulling people out of any random unit, and letting them have a go at it. Another thing that I have never understood about the Marines and Navy is why do they wait until last for jump school, when everyone knows that ussually people sustain more serious injuries during there first 10 jumps than they do after 10 jumps? Seems like before you invest all of the money in them you would want to know that they can step out of a airplane with out getting hurt at least 5 times.

What do you Marines think?

About going into caves after the bad guys. They need to bring back the Tunnel Rats. I was in Iraq not Afganastan, but I would never go into a cave with just a pistol. I would figure out a way to take a M4, sub machine gun, or shotgun.
Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  3:44:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One more thing about the Marines: They need to take Prior service, and lateral transfers from the Army. At least at the Airborne level and above. I understand not wanting all of the trash from the rest of the Army but Look at how the Air Force fills its Para rescue and gorund SAR, from the Army and Marines. Save money on training and get quality personel, that come from the best units that the Army has. I wouldnt personaly do, I would rather be in a plane a few hours, than a ship for 6 months, but some soldiers would.
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  4:12:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jsuggs

One more thing about the Marines: They need to take Prior service, and lateral transfers from the Army. At least at the Airborne level and above. I understand not wanting all of the trash from the rest of the Army but Look at how the Air Force fills its Para rescue and gorund SAR, from the Army and Marines. Save money on training and get quality personel, that come from the best units that the Army has. I wouldnt personaly do, I would rather be in a plane a few hours, than a ship for 6 months, but some soldiers would.



NO THEY DON'T! The Marines are not just skill orientated. In boot camp they instill the Core values and build on a sense of tradition and pride that is often times lacking in the Army. The common bond that all Marines have is that they have endured the same trials and accomplishments as every other Marine. When you look at any Marine in his Cammies you can't tell if he is an airwinger or in a line company. The Army breeds division in it's ranks. Hell, the Army units I've worked with had so much rivalry between units they would fight each other. I, on several occasions have seen a Soldier get into a fight and when I asked the soldiers watching if they were going to get in there, they said, "Na, he's not in our company." If I saw a Marine fighting several soldiers and not holding his own I'd jump right in there regardless of unit, he's a Marine, part of the family. I think most Marines feel that way. The Army doesn't get that. They are very preoccupied with badges, patches, gidons, and any other way they can futher differentiate themselves. You look at Airborne units, they are no better than a basic trained Marine out of 13 weeks of boot camp. The only difference is that they were dumb enough to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. Airborne is not special, that's like giving extra distinction to the boat company in a Battalion Landing Team. There are only two ways to EARN the title United States Marine, go through boot in MCRD San Diego or MCRD Parris Island. That's it.

Semper Fi

Edited by - wildeman.7.62nato on 01/22/2009 4:13:18 PM
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  4:19:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[quote]Originally posted by jsuggs

I dont know much about the Marines since I was in the Army. It seems to me that the Marines need to look at a multiple level special operations system like the Army has. At the top SF/Delta then below them Ranger then below them as mission dictates Airborne. The advantage of this is that there is a clear priority for personel, and if a unit needs people there is a very defined way to get augmentation of personel or atachment from lower units. These atachments may not have as much training, but are still highly trained. I think that this is better than just pulling people out of any random unit, and letting them have a go at it. Another thing that I have never understood about the Marines and Navy is why do they wait until last for jump school, when everyone knows that ussually people sustain more serious injuries during there first 10 jumps than they do after 10 jumps? Seems like before you invest all of the money in them you would want to know that they can step out of a airplane with out getting hurt at least 5 times.
]

It's been proven that we do more with less. The Marine Corps is streamlined, why would they want to become a logistic nightmare like the Army? There are really talented individuals in every unit, just because you are part of an Airborne unit doesn't make you the best canidate. The Marine Corps allows any Marine to take the indoc to ensure that they are getting the best personnel from through out hte Corps. Wittynbear could elaborate on this better than I could, maybe he sees it defferently?

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  8:44:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jsuggs

What do you Marines think?

About going into caves after the bad guys. They need to bring back the Tunnel Rats. I was in Iraq not Afganastan, but I would never go into a cave with just a pistol. I would figure out a way to take a M4, sub machine gun, or shotgun.



I'd like to see that, there is not enough room in some of them caves. You take in a m4 you will destroy your rifle, get stuck, or be unable to fire on the enemy, or all three.


Go to Top of Page

wittynbear
Advanced Member

4919 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  8:53:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While the Marines will allow any MOS to go to indoc. Any Marine can not go, you must meet requirements, high first class PFT, CWS1 swim qual, 4.6 pro/con marks, Lcpl with 1 6 months on station in FMF, and high expert on rifle range. To have the best chances to suceed you should be on your 2nd elistment, at least 1 combat deployment, and be a Sgt. Any MOS can go to indoc but they must have a good understanding of infantry skills and tactics. Every Marine is an infantryman but the skills are perishable if not used and refined.

Not to knock the army, I have met some good people who are soldiers, but the army units themselves are really unprofessional, and for lack of a better word, NASTY.


Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2009 :  6:11:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Army does let any NCO with a high pt score and expert rifle qual attend SF or Delta selection but most of the selections are from the Airborne and Ranger units. While these units get there fair share of bad recrutes they are like the Marines and send them home. I have always respected the Marines because they have forced entry capabilities, like a Airborne or Ranger unit. While the Marines require a beach, the world is a drop zone. Like I said before alot of soldiers dont like to jump out of planes, they only do it because it is required and they are dedicated enough to do it. Many of them would probably leave the Army for the Marines if the Marines would take them. I never said to take them directly into Force Recon, I just said to take them into the Marines. Many times when in a Airborne unit I wished that we had the fire power of a MEU. Insted the heaviest suport that we had were unarmored gun trucks with tow missles, 105mm guns, and Kiowa attack helocopters. No tanks, APCs, LAV's, or Cobras. I do admit that the Army has more fights, this is because it is a self sustaining force. There is a very wide diversity of jobs which does not exist in the Marines. How many Marines have you seen get into fights with the Navy that supports you? No different than a Army grunt getting into a fight with a supply soldier is it? Taking your agressions out on another branch dosent make the Marines any better than the Army. Then there is always the east coast vs. west coast fight. I have trained with the Marines, against the Marines, and worked with the Marines many times. I never encountered, or heard of any problems between the units that I was in and the Marines that we were associated with. But we did often encounter problems with leg Army units. Probably for the same reasons that you had problems with them. They are fat, lazy, and undisiplined.

By the way I am only 5ft 9in, 145lbs I can carry a rifle and use it in a lot of places that someone 6ft 2in 220lbs can not. If I cant get threw with my rifle than I would be convinced enough that the bad guys couldnt get threw with there rifles that if needed I would continue with a pistol. But my choice of pistol would not change.
Go to Top of Page

wildeman.7.62nato
Junior Member

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2009 :  6:35:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Marines are not just confined to beaches, we have some of the best helo and airlift squadrons in the military. You should look into the MAGTAF. We are a self contained fighting force, this is why unit cohesion is so important. It has to be a combined effort. I have met several prior service people who joined the Marines. I have no problem with any soldier who wants to be a Marine, as long as he completes bootcamp. If they are special forces it should be easy for them.

Semper Fi
Go to Top of Page

jsuggs
Junior Member

121 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2009 :  12:25:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am glad to see that there are some objectionable people on here that can express there opinion without using insults. I really wanted to see how you would react to me bringing the subject up more than anything.

To change the subject Did you see where over 44,000 recrutes were denied enlistment last year due to being overweight? What is going on that over 1/2 of the US is overweight?
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
GunBroker.com Message Forums © 1999-2017 GB Investments, Inc. All Rights Reserved Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06


Visit GunBroker.com at: www.gunbroker.com
Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the site's User Agreement
Site Map