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 1886 Winchester 40-65
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Dads1886
Starting Member

8 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2007 :  08:57:42 AM  Show Profile
Hello Experts:

I just inherited an 1886 Winchester in 40-65 WCF. The serial number, 117,XXX, tells me that this gun was made in 1898. It is in good condition, other than it needs a thorough cleaning. I'm working on two questions that have eluded me so far:

1. Can I use the PMC 40-65 smokeless rounds in this gun? I am unable to get an accurate answer on whether this gun can handle a smokeless round. A local PMC dealer says that this smokeless round was design to shoot in my gun, but I'd like a second opinion. There are no "Nickel Steel" or "Made for Smokeless" markings on the long octagon barrel.
2. The rear sight does not look original. The blueing doesn't match, and the elevation adjuster says "pat. 1901". Where can I get info/parts on an original.

I really want to have a working, original 1886 in my collection, so any input would be great.

Winchester 1886 #117,XXX
Savage 170 30-30
Ithaca Featherlight 12ga
Winchester Model 12 12ga

perry shooter
Advanced Member

13951 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2007 :  09:22:08 AM  Show Profile
Be careful when it comes to cleaning this term means different things to different people PATINA is a good thing value wise striped stock finish etc can cut this value in half.
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Dads1886
Starting Member

8 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2007 :  09:32:35 AM  Show Profile
Oh yeah, when I say "thorough cleaning" I meant using a q-tip and some gun oil on the action, and only the parts I can see without dissasembly. Don't worry about the patina, it's in good hands.

Winchester 1886 #117,XXX
Savage 170 30-30
Ithaca Featherlight 12ga
Winchester Model 12 12ga

Edited by - Dads1886 on 01/16/2007 09:33:06 AM
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MIKE WISKEY
Advanced Member

7956 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2007 :  10:04:28 AM  Show Profile
if the rifle is in good mechanical cond. it should be safe with this loading. the 1886 is a very strong action and made the transition to smokeles powder with out any major changes.

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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
10918 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2007 :  10:30:19 AM  Show Profile
Ditto to what Mike said about action strength. The PMC ammo is loaded to the same pressure specs as the original Winchester ammo of that rifle's era.

Now, as for the DOM... I highly doubt that it was actaully manufactured in 1898. My bet would be at least two years later, and possibly three. I highly recommend contacting the Cody Firearms Museum and purchasing a factory letter - http://www.bbhc.org/firearms/records.cfm

The rear sight elevator with the Feb. 1901. patent date is quite possibly original to your rifle. It is a correct Winchester sight elevator, and it was used on nearly all of the various models in production at that time. Can you post a few pictures of the rear sight?

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Bert H. - http://www.bbhc.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/

Real Men own and shoot a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!


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Dads1886
Starting Member

8 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2007 :  11:31:50 AM  Show Profile
This site: http://oldguns.net/sn_php/winmods.htm
gave me a DOM of 1898. I'll keep that in mind, though, about being slightly younger.



Winchester 1886 #117,XXX
Savage 170 30-30
Ithaca Featherlight 12ga
Winchester Model 12 12ga
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
10918 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2007 :  3:01:19 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Dads1886

This site: http://oldguns.net/sn_php/winmods.htm
gave me a DOM of 1898. I'll keep that in mind, though, about being slightly younger.



As I have pointed out many, many times before on this forum (not that I would expect you to have known that), the Winchester serial number information on my good friend John Spangler's website, is not accurate (nor are any of the other internet websites that list Winchester DOMs). If would like to use the Search function, plug in "DOM" and my GB user name, and you can read more about it.

As for that rear sight, it does appear to be out-of-place as compared to the rest of the rifle, but it is an authentic Winchester rear sight. Specifically, it is a 22-C Flat-top Sporting sight.

GunBroker.com Moderator

The Largest Auction Gun Store Online including Pistols, Shotguns, and Rifles


Bert H. - http://www.bbhc.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/

Real Men own and shoot a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!



Edited by - Bert H. on 01/16/2007 6:16:36 PM
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Dads1886
Starting Member

8 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2007 :  3:38:26 PM  Show Profile
Bert, I didn't have a DOM question, so I didn't use the search function for DOM. Take it easy on me. Thanks, now I have more research to do! haha.

Thanks for the sight info. On the barrel, opposite of the picture, there is a small tooling mark right below the dovetail on the apex of the octagon. Looks like an amature smithing job, and makes me believe that this sight is correct but not original. The front looks to be original.




Winchester 1886 #117,XXX
Savage 170 30-30
Ithaca Featherlight 12ga
Winchester Model 12 12ga
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
10918 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2007 :  6:15:33 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Dads1886

Bert, I didn't have a DOM question, so I didn't use the search function for DOM. Take it easy on me. Thanks, now I have more research to do! haha.

Thanks for the sight info. On the barrel, opposite of the picture, there is a small tooling mark right below the dovetail on the apex of the octagon. Looks like an amature smithing job, and makes me believe that this sight is correct but not original. The front looks to be original.




I wasn't my intention to be rough or hard on you. I only wanted you to clearly understand that the 1898 date you came up with is not correct. In this particular case it was very important for you to know that piece of information, as firearms made prior to January 1, 1899 are legally "antiques" and no longer considered to be "firearms" by federal regulations (BATF). Any firearm made on or after January 1, 1899, is considered to be a "modern" firearm, and is subject to a lot more regulations.

GunBroker.com Moderator

The Largest Auction Gun Store Online including Pistols, Shotguns, and Rifles


Bert H. - http://www.bbhc.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/

Real Men own and shoot a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!


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Dads1886
Starting Member

8 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2007 :  4:43:52 PM  Show Profile
Follow up:
I purchased a box of PMC 40-65 ammo this weekend and loaded it into the rifle. The cartridge fit fine, but I am having a problem with cartridges loading from the magazine. After cycling the lever, the cartridge hangs up just before it enters the barrel. I looks like the end of the casing is catching on the barrel opening. I have to jog the lever back and forth a couple times to get the cartridge to enter the barrel. Has anyone had a problem like this on their '86 and how do you fix it? Has my barrel been rebored?

Also, comparing the bullet to the end of the barrel, I noticed some play. Looking at my modern weapons, there is no play, almost an interference fit. What is going on there?

Winchester 1886 #117,XXX
Savage 170 30-30
Ithaca Featherlight 12ga
Winchester Model 12 12ga

Edited by - Dads1886 on 01/22/2007 4:59:59 PM
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
10918 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2007 :  4:58:16 PM  Show Profile
It sounds to me like the cartridge elevator is slightly sticky/dirty.

I suggest the you try cleaning the internals of the action with Hoppe's No. 9 black powder gun cleaning solvent.

First remove the stocks (to prevent getting any solvent on them), then squirt a liberal amount of solvent into the internals. Slowly work the action several times, and flush the internals several times while cycling the action. Blow it dry with canned air, then apply a minute amount of gun oil to the internals. While you have the stocks off, clean all exposed steel surfaces, and clean the stocks with a quality wood furniture cleaner. Never allow solvent or gun oil to get on the stocks.

GunBroker.com Moderator

The Largest Auction Gun Store Online including Pistols, Shotguns, and Rifles


Bert H. - http://www.bbhc.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/

Real Men own and shoot a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!


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