GunBroker.com Message Forums
Review our Posting Guidelines
GunBroker.com Message Forums
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?   Trouble / Can't log in?

 All Forums
 GunBroker.com Message Forums
 General Discussion
 Winchester 94 (1965) .30/30 ammo??
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

thallman
New Member

58 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  8:24:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, just wondering...I heard recently .300, .30-30, .30-06 is all the same as the .308...

By this I assume they are saying the diamter is all relative and would hurt anything if off by .002 or what not.

I'm guessing the difference in the ammo above really isn't the diameter as much as the length.

If I am correct, then, can my Winchester 94 (1965) .30/30 feed anything else besides .30-30? I'm trying to find a cheaper alternative and the .308 looks to be cheaper.

Thank you!

-Thomas

MVP
Advanced Member

Equatorial Guinea
21953 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  8:28:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Somebody fed you a load of BS.

Only use the ammo stamped on the barrel.



Edited by - MVP on 12/29/2007 8:28:18 PM
Go to Top of Page

thallman
New Member

58 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  8:31:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


quote:
Originally posted by MVP

Somebody fed you a load of BS.

Only use the ammo stamped on the barrel.



That's what I thought. However, I didn't know if, since the diameters are all REALLY close, if I could safely (and without harm being done to my firearm) get away with swap. It is an older weapon and I am just curious to see if anyone with the Win 94 has done this. Feeding a round (longer) would seem to me to be the most logical problem.

I want to buy some bulk .30-30 but it's WAY more than the .308 or 30-06
Go to Top of Page

matwor
Advanced Member

12031 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  8:33:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is much more to it than bullet diameter, and .002 may not sound like alot but stick to what it says on the barrel.




"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds
forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

quote:
Originally posted by nunn
Fess up, ya RancheroPaul-smelling SOB!

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". Thomas Jefferson

quote:
Originally posted by cartod
I myself have seen these mossberg carrying hunters in the northern partridge fields and its all I can do not to have my hispanic bird boys go over and kick there ass.





Go to Top of Page

MVP
Advanced Member

Equatorial Guinea
21953 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  8:35:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Firearms are chambered for specific cartridges and that designation will be on the barrel.
The 30-06 and 308 are vastly different than the 30-30.
Very dangerous to try and use ammo not specifically stamped on your barrel.


Go to Top of Page

thallman
New Member

58 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  8:38:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's what I was thinking.

Is there a "cheaper" .30-30 ammo construction to use?

I have a 22 I use for target practice, but on occasion I want to pull out the larger cal and shoot off 50 or so rounds. Cost wise, however, that can get REALLY expensive, atleast, for me.
Go to Top of Page

fishkiller41
Advanced Member

USA
39365 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  8:40:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
FUGGEDABAADIT!!
Go to Top of Page

thallman
New Member

58 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  9:38:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anyone you know (or you) do reloading of spent casing? I thought about doing it myself, but a) I've never done it before and b) while not difficult, I don't have the proper tools and purchasing them would really defeat the purpose of saving money. Unless, that is, there is a "redneck" way of repacking your spent brass that I haven't heard of...
Go to Top of Page

MVP
Advanced Member

Equatorial Guinea
21953 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  9:48:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thallman

Does anyone you know (or you) do reloading of spent casing? I thought about doing it myself, but a) I've never done it before and b) while not difficult, I don't have the proper tools and purchasing them would really defeat the purpose of saving money. Unless, that is, there is a "redneck" way of repacking your spent brass that I haven't heard of...


Dude you really need to stop eating the BS thats being fed to you.
It is not good for your health.


Go to Top of Page

LesWVa
Advanced Member

7376 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  9:50:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They may have been talking about the bullet diam.

The 308 Win, 300 Savage, 30-06, 30 Carbine, 30-378 Weatherby, 30-40 Krag along with the 7.5mm (7.5 x 55mm Swiss), 7.62 rifles (7.62x54R) all use a .308" diam bullet.

If you reload your ammo. .308 bullets will work in a ton of different caliber rifles.

The brass is much different as you should know and will not interchange between different rifles calibers.

I have had people try to tell me that a .243 bullet is not the same as a 6mm and that a 6mm is a .240. lol

Go to Top of Page

matwor
Advanced Member

12031 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  9:58:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Isn't the .30-.30 cheap enough already?




"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds
forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

quote:
Originally posted by nunn
Fess up, ya RancheroPaul-smelling SOB!

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". Thomas Jefferson

quote:
Originally posted by cartod
I myself have seen these mossberg carrying hunters in the northern partridge fields and its all I can do not to have my hispanic bird boys go over and kick there ass.





Go to Top of Page

MVP
Advanced Member

Equatorial Guinea
21953 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  10:00:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by matwor

Isn't the .30-.30 cheap enough already?


Most 30-30 ammo is relatively cheap but the 30-30 ammo for the (1965)Winchester 94 always seems a bit pricier.


Go to Top of Page

e8gm
Senior Member

1057 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  10:02:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just make sure that what ever you decide to feed your 30/30 that it has a flat tip on the bullet. The 30/30 has a tubular magazine which means the tip of one bullet is resting on the primer of the bullet in front of it in the magazine. If you put a pointed bullet in the magazine behind another round it will set off the round in front of it when the gun is fired. The only pointed bullet you should ever use in a tubular magazine is Hornady's new leverevoultion ammo. It has a soft polymer tip designed for tubular magazines.
Go to Top of Page

thallman
New Member

58 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  10:13:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by e8gm

Just make sure that what ever you decide to feed your 30/30 that it has a flat tip on the bullet. The 30/30 has a tubular magazine which means the tip of one bullet is resting on the primer of the bullet in front of it in the magazine. If you put a pointed bullet in the magazine behind another round it will set off the round in front of it when the gun is fired. The only pointed bullet you should ever use in a tubular magazine is Hornady's new leverevoultion ammo. It has a soft polymer tip designed for tubular magazines.

Go to Top of Page

thallman
New Member

58 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  10:16:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

If you reload your ammo. .308 bullets will work in a ton of different caliber rifles.

The brass is much different as you should know and will not interchange between different rifles calibers.



So, I'm confused. If .308 (and others) use the same diameter casing and will thus feed if the correct length, why would they not work in a 30-30.

Sorry, I'm quite new to all this. I understand brass is made from different metals, but I just can't picture why a similar metal brass .308 won't fit a 30-30... (please note, I'm not argueing with anyone or saying that it's not a bad idea to run the a diff cal, I'm just trying to understand why the minute different, if any in diameter size, is the issue, or what else it?!?!)
Go to Top of Page

guntech59
Advanced Member

Seychelles
15961 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  10:24:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The BULLET is the same diameter, the casing is different. Use only the ammo that is stamped in your barrel.

Not all rifles chambered in 30/30 are tube fed. Yours is. Use round or flat nose bullets in it.

Xerxes: There will be no glory in your sacrifice. I will erase even the memory of Sparta from the histories! Every piece of Greek parchment shall be burned. Every Greek historian, and every scribe shall have their eyes pulled out, and their tongues cut from their mouths. Why, uttering the very name of Sparta, or Leonidas, will be punishable by death! The world will never know you existed at all!

King Leonidas: The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many, and before this battle was over, even a god-king can bleed.
Go to Top of Page

Nwcid
Advanced Member

USA
9219 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  10:30:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are confusing Bullet (the part that comes out of the bbl) and Cartridges (bullet, brass, powder and primer).

Each gun is made to fire one type of cartridge. Many cartridges use the same size diameter Bullet (the part that comes out the bbl). There are dozens of cartridges that use a bullet that is .308" in diameter. Even though the same bullet is used the cartridge is not the same size.

For example I can use a .223 (really measures .224" in diameter) Bullet (the part that comes out of the bbl) to reload my .223 caliber cartridges. I can also use that same Bullet (the part that comes out of the bbl) in reloading my .22-250. The .22-250 cartridge uses .308 Winchester brass with a smaller neck. There is no way a .308 Case (aka brass, the main body of a cartridge) will fit in a chamber sized for .223 caliber cartridges.



Is that more confusing or does it make more sense?





Just a thought Why would you ask members of a gun forum if you should buy a gun. Kinda like an alcoholic going into a bar to hoping to have someone tell him not to drink.

Anyone who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither!!!

Gun control defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft, and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm.

What are MG's for?
Because if you are going to cry out, "Say Hello To My Little Fren" and you are holding a bolt action .22, you have no style.

John

Edited by - Nwcid on 12/29/2007 10:31:51 PM
Go to Top of Page

thallman
New Member

58 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  10:50:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nwcid

You are confusing Bullet (the part that comes out of the bbl) and Cartridges (bullet, brass, powder and primer).

Each gun is made to fire one type of cartridge. Many cartridges use the same size diameter Bullet (the part that comes out the bbl). There are dozens of cartridges that use a bullet that is .308" in diameter. Even though the same bullet is used the cartridge is not the same size.

For example I can use a .223 (really measures .224" in diameter) Bullet (the part that comes out of the bbl) to reload my .223 caliber cartridges. I can also use that same Bullet (the part that comes out of the bbl) in reloading my .22-250. The .22-250 cartridge uses .308 Winchester brass with a smaller neck. There is no way a .308 Case (aka brass, the main body of a cartridge) will fit in a chamber sized for .223 caliber cartridges.



Is that more confusing or does it make more sense?








It does. Thank you so much. So, just so I'm getting this straight. The different in the .308 and 30-30 is not the size of the bullet but instead the case (brass) and the .308 (which referrs to the bullet size?!) is roughly the saze size as the 30-30 bullet but probably has a bigger case (brass) or something? If so, and we know that the bullets (being the same size) will fit through the barrel, it is more a question of whether the case can be feed through the action, right? And there is not case that will fit besides a 30? I guess I was a little confused b/c I can use either 22 short or 22 long in my 22 lr. And was wondering why and the heck I could do the same thing in the 30-30...
Go to Top of Page

Nwcid
Advanced Member

USA
9219 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  11:04:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thallman

[quote][i]

It does. Thank you so much. So, just so I'm getting this straight. The different in the .308 and 30-30 is not the size of the bullet but instead the case (brass) and the .308 (which referrs to the bullet size?!) is roughly the saze size as the 30-30 bullet but probably has a bigger case (brass) or something? If so, and we know that the bullets (being the same size) will fit through the barrel, it is more a question of whether the case can be feed through the action, right? And there is not case that will fit besides a 30? I guess I was a little confused b/c I can use either 22 short or 22 long in my 22 lr. And was wondering why and the heck I could do the same thing in the 30-30...




Correct. .308 can be confusing as it is a Bullet size (diameter) as well as the name of a cartridge. I am not sure of any system that is really good at naming cartridges. Metric is probably closest as it names the length and diameter, but some of that can be different too. Most US guns are listed as Caliber (diameter in inches) and then given a name along with it. For example, .308 Winchester, . 300 Savage, .300 Mag, .300 Weatherby Mag, .300 WSSM, .38 special, .38 super auto, and the list goes on.

I do not remember how the .30-30 got its name, but it was named 30 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) at first. Some like the .30-06 was a .30 cal (.308) cartridge that was developed in 1906 to = .30 of 06.

Older black powder guns were named in bullet diameter and powder charge. The .45-70 was a .45 cal bullet and used 70gr of black powder.

I can be confusing and there is no simple chart, some of it you just have to learn and know.

.22 is a straight wall case. In the case of straight wall case you can interchange SOME of them. For example you can shoot .38 special rounds in a .357 mag. You can NOT do the oppisit as the .357 mag has more power and will damage the gun. With a bottle neck cartridge you CAN NOT.





Just a thought Why would you ask members of a gun forum if you should buy a gun. Kinda like an alcoholic going into a bar to hoping to have someone tell him not to drink.

Anyone who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither!!!

Gun control defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft, and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm.

What are MG's for?
Because if you are going to cry out, "Say Hello To My Little Fren" and you are holding a bolt action .22, you have no style.

John

Edited by - Nwcid on 12/29/2007 11:06:55 PM
Go to Top of Page

thallman
New Member

58 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  11:11:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nwcid

quote:
Originally posted by thallman

[quote][i]

It does. Thank you so much. So, just so I'm getting this straight. The different in the .308 and 30-30 is not the size of the bullet but instead the case (brass) and the .308 (which referrs to the bullet size?!) is roughly the saze size as the 30-30 bullet but probably has a bigger case (brass) or something? If so, and we know that the bullets (being the same size) will fit through the barrel, it is more a question of whether the case can be feed through the action, right? And there is not case that will fit besides a 30? I guess I was a little confused b/c I can use either 22 short or 22 long in my 22 lr. And was wondering why and the heck I could do the same thing in the 30-30...




Correct. .308 can be confusing as it is a Bullet size (diameter) as well as the name of a cartridge. I am not sure of any system that is really good at naming cartridges. Metric is probably closest as it names the length and diameter, but some of that can be different too. Most US guns are listed as Caliber (diameter in inches) and then given a name along with it. For example, .308 Winchester, . 300 Savage, .300 Mag, .300 Weatherby Mag, .300 WSSM, .38 special, .38 super auto, and the list goes on.

I do not remember how the .30-30 got its name, but it was named 30 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) at first. Some like the .30-06 was a .30 cal (.308) cartridge that was developed in 1906 to = .30 of 06.

Older black powder guns were named in bullet diameter and powder charge. The .45-70 was a .45 cal bullet and used 70gr of black powder.

I can be confusing and there is no simple chart, some of it you just have to learn and know.

.22 is a straight wall case. In the case of straight wall case you can interchange SOME of them. For example you can shoot .38 special rounds in a .357 mag. You can NOT do the oppisit as the .357 mag has more power and will damage the gun. With a bottle neck cartridge you CAN NOT.








Great. Thank you for actually taking the time to explain this in simple terms without using sarcasm or flaming like so many do!
Go to Top of Page

MVP
Advanced Member

Equatorial Guinea
21953 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  11:17:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thallman

Great. Thank you for actually taking the time to explain this in simple terms without using sarcasm or flaming like so many do!



I may have been wrong in assesing your question as humor and I am sorry.
My apologies


Go to Top of Page

thallman
New Member

58 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  11:22:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MVP

quote:
Originally posted by thallman

Great. Thank you for actually taking the time to explain this in simple terms without using sarcasm or flaming like so many do!



I may have been wrong in assesing your question as humor and I am sorry.
My apologies



It's cool. No worries. I just thought you were a dick
Go to Top of Page

MVP
Advanced Member

Equatorial Guinea
21953 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  11:23:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thallman

quote:
Originally posted by MVP

quote:
Originally posted by thallman

Great. Thank you for actually taking the time to explain this in simple terms without using sarcasm or flaming like so many do!



I may have been wrong in assesing your question as humor and I am sorry.
My apologies



It's cool. No worries. I just thought you were a dick


I do have a knack for making new friends .
Somedays I make so many i don't know how to handle it.


Go to Top of Page

thallman
New Member

58 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2007 :  11:28:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

I do have a knack for making new friends .
Somedays I make so many i don't know how to handle it.




Happens to the best of us
Go to Top of Page

stanman
Advanced Member

USA
3757 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2007 :  01:21:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Most 30-30 ammo is relatively cheap but the 30-30 ammo for the (1965)Winchester 94 always seems a bit pricier.

Prices have jumped recently, but 30-30 is ALWAYS among the cheapest of centerfire rifle ammo.
At least it is when purchased by the box at any major retailer.
Please don't let some fool behind the counter convince you of a need for SPECIAL cartridges to shoot through your post 64 winchester.
Remington green box with 150 or 170 gr. bullets is the cheapest I've found and along with any other 30-30 cartridge will work fine in your model 94.
Even the crustiest of the members here are buckets of firearms knowledge so put on your thick skin and know that you've come to the right place to ask questions.
Also know that you might not always like the way the answer is packaged, but that don't make the answer wrong.




"Man will ultimately be governed by God or tyrants."
Benjamin Franklin

Barack Obama= "this foulest of creatures-the double parasite who lives on the sores of the poor and the blood of the rich-whom men have come to regard as a moral ideal."
Ragnar Danneskjold

Bipartisanship defined:
"There isn't a partisan bone in my body Bozo, I'll support any politician anywhere that has proved by actions that they will stick their necks out and oppose the GOP and Blue Dogs."
woodguru
Go to Top of Page

Colt Super
Advanced Member

USA
28650 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2007 :  04:12:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

thallman - Please don't worry about my comment, and please do as e8gm instructs

Doug



quote:
Originally posted by e8gm

Just make sure that what ever you decide to feed your 30/30 that it has a flat tip on the bullet. The 30/30 has a tubular magazine which means the tip of one bullet is resting on the primer of the bullet in front of it in the magazine. If you put a pointed bullet in the magazine behind another round it will set off the round in front of it when the gun is fired. The only pointed bullet you should ever use in a tubular magazine is Hornady's new leverevoultion ammo. It has a soft polymer tip designed for tubular magazines.



I have heard this for years, but have never seen any documentation of an accidental discharge or chain-fire occurring because of pointy bullets in a tubular magazine.

Don't the Remington Accelerator sabots have pointy bullets in .30-30??

Doug

3%





God Bless America and...
Remember Pearl Harbor
Remember the Alamo
NEVER Forget WACO
NEVER Forget RUBY RIDGE
NEVER, EVER Forget 911
Lock and load
Go to Top of Page

Red XIV
Starting Member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2007 :  06:11:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nwcid

I do not remember how the .30-30 got its name, but it was named 30 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) at first.

The .30-30 name came about when Marlin started making rifles chambered in the cartridge. They didn't want to stamp "Winchester" (their biggest rival) on their rifles, so they used the black powder-style notation (even though the cartridge always used smokeless powder) as an alternate name. It caught on, and now .30 WCF is usually not used.

quote:
Originally posted by Nwcid

For example you can shoot .38 special rounds in a .357 mag. You can NOT do the oppisit as the .357 mag has more power and will damage the gun.

Fortunately, it's not possible to fire .357 Magnum from a .38 Special revolver, since its increased length means the cylinder wouldn't be able to close.

Where the real problem can occur is with cartridges that have the same dimensions, but produce different amounts of pressure when fired. For example, 7.62x25 Tokarev will chamber in a C96 Broomhandle Mauser designed for 7.63x25 Mauser, but firing it would be a very bad idea because the Tokarev round is loaded hotter. Likewise, .38 ACP and .38 Super have the same dimensions (in this case it's not merely close, they're exactly the same), but .38 Super is substantially more powerful.
Go to Top of Page

Tailgunner1954
Advanced Member

7213 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2007 :  07:07:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thallman
I'm kinda late to the party, but the others have fairly well covered (to be technical, the reason your 22LR can also fire shorts is that the case is straight AND the headspace is controlled by the rim).
Here are a couple of visuals for you (sorry I don't have any that include the 30-30 Win cartridge)
All these are 8mm Rimmed cartridges that use .323 bullets, but as you can see they are all quite different.


In the next photo, the middle 3 all use a .308 bullet, as does the one on the far left, but again, they are all quite different casings.

30 Carbine, 223 Rem, 308 Win, 30-40 Krag, 30-06 Springfield, 50 BMG, 60 HMG

LEE offers some "$35 redneck repacking" equipment, but do yourself a favor and spend the $150 on one of their better reloading packages. It's harder to reduce the cost of inexpensive ammo when reloading, but it can be done.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
Go to Top of Page

Red XIV
Starting Member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2007 :  05:24:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually, Tailgunner, 8mm Lebel uses .327 bullets and 8x56R uses .329 bullets.
Go to Top of Page

hdwrench
Member

USA
963 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2007 :  08:02:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
doug . i have wondered about the 30-30 accelerator bullets myself .remington dosnt specify in what gun they should be shot and maybe this leads us to believe it could be loaded into a tube mag gun .but it doesnt mean its ok either ,in fact i wont ever do it .i got to thining that its not mentioned but it would only be safe loaded into a bolt gun where the bullets are stacked in the mag well .
if i ever used the accelerator in a lever gun i would only load it into the chamber and have other bullets in the mag for safetys sake .better safe i feel .i never heard of a discharge but that dont mean itnever did or couldnt happen .
i just picked up some leverevolution and ill be shooting that real soon .
my 2 cents ......wrench
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
GunBroker.com Message Forums © 1999-2014 GB Investments, Inc. All Rights Reserved Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06


Visit GunBroker.com at: www.gunbroker.com
Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the site's User Agreement
Site Map