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 Converting AR15 to full auto?
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coledigger4
Member

USA
820 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2008 :  10:53:48 AM  Show Profile
I know that no one in their right mind would want to try this for fear of ending up in a Federal prison but I overheard a discussion and I think the one guy is wrong. He claims that with a part called "the missing link" it is possible to convert a Colt AR 15 into both "select fire" and "full auto". I really couldn't argue the point because I don't know but the other guy said it is impossible because of the way the civilian models are built. I have heard about a "missing link" but I thought it was for some other type of gun. I finally told them that a person would have to be THE "missing link" to even consider this considering the consequences if you ever got caught with such a thing. Just for the record, which one was right?

Mooseyard
Senior Member

2394 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2008 :  11:29:13 AM  Show Profile
With the addition of a 'Lightening Link' or Drop-in auto sear (DIAS)an AR-15 can be legally converted to full-auto. The ATF Considered the DIAS to be the machine gun, so they were serial numbered and registered as such. An AR still has to have all of the other full-auto parts (Bolt carrier,hammer etc)for the DIAS to work. If you have an AR with full-auto parts, and no DIAS you are illegal. If you have a registered DIAS, then you can have the full-auto parts in your AR. I've never heard anyone use the term missing link. Registered DIAS sell for $8-12,000. IT's actually getting to the point were it's cheaper to pay the fine than buy the gun. I think it's time for another amnesty

"My faith, my country and my family will guide me; nothing more, nothing less" -Gen. Tommy Franks
"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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coledigger4
Member

USA
820 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2008 :  11:41:40 AM  Show Profile
I have seen the "missing link" advertised in Shotgun News but have not a clue as to what it even looks like.
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AZEX
Senior Member

1810 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2008 :  7:48:40 PM  Show Profile
DIAS+plus FA selector, hammer, disconnector, trigger, and bolt carrier = true select fire.

"Lightning Link" is a drop in device, not nearly as sturdy, which works on FA only (safe still works) with all the rest of the semi parts in place.

There are transferrable lightning links out there, about 3500 bucks.

D.

www.azexarms.com
www.azexarms.com/forum
DenVII "...maybe because supporting assault weapons is stupid.....is a lost cause.....and it will only turn America against us?"
DenVII-"Tax the rich who have plenty and lower the taxes on the rest of us.
That's very sane and it's exactly what the American people want."
Karl Marx-"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."
A question for the ages. Why do the mods do everything they can to protect an old broke-dick Col. Sanders-lookin' government pencil pusher and how many troll names DOES he have on this board?
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vicg1
Senior Member

1237 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2008 :  4:47:55 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by AZEX

DIAS+plus FA selector, hammer, disconnector, trigger, and bolt carrier = true select fire.

"Lightning Link" is a drop in device, not nearly as sturdy, which works on FA only (safe still works) with all the rest of the semi parts in place.

There are transferrable lightning links out there, about 3500 bucks.

D.



-select fire is possible with lightning links

-they run about $6k these days



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tsr1965
Advanced Member

USA
7081 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2008 :  8:36:15 PM  Show Profile
All I can say, unless the lightening link, or DIAS is properly registered, and you have to take out a second mortgage for it, don't do it. 10 years is a long time to wear lipstick, and play the part of Bubba's girlfriend in the crowbar hotel. Fully automatic fire that is controlled has a distinctive sound that can be heard for miles away.
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Txs
Advanced Member

15855 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2008 :  10:15:15 PM  Show Profile
I'm a Colt M16/AR15 Armorer.

Due to several design/parts issues, no Colt AR15 manufactured since I believe the 60's or very early 70's can be converted to full-auto by simply installing a drop in auto-sear or lightning link.
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tsr1965
Advanced Member

USA
7081 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2008 :  06:19:51 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Txs

I'm a Colt M16/AR15 Armorer.

Due to several design/parts issues, no Colt AR15 manufactured since I believe the 60's or very early 70's can be converted to full-auto by simply installing a drop in auto-sear or lightning link.



You are absolutely correct, it needs the select fire control group, and the machinegun bolt carrier to work. If I am not mistaken, the BATFE looks at any of those parts in whole or part in the weapon, as intent, and the weapon being a machine gun. The DIAS, or lightening link, themselves are what is registered, so mere possesion of one could be considered a no no if there is no paper work.

EDIT:

There were other manufacturers who had the spot inside the reciever open enough on early models to accomodate drop in parts other than Colt. IF THE DIAS OR LIGHTENING LINK IS REGISTERED, then there is no need to have an early reciever.

Edited by - tsr1965 on 04/14/2008 12:03:40 PM
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nmyers
Advanced Member

12516 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2008 :  09:13:43 AM  Show Profile
From ATF P5300.4, page 128:

"Regardless of the date of manufacture of a DIAS, possession of such a sear and certain M-16 fire control parts is possession of a machinegun as defined by the NFA."

Neal
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Txs
Advanced Member

15855 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2008 :  11:34:17 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by tsr1965

...it needs the select fire control group, and the machinegun bolt carrier to work.
Even with replacement of all these parts, their receivers are dimensioned specifically to prevent the use of these drop-in auto conversion parts.

AR receivers were originally nothing more than M16's minus one hole drilled for installation of the auto-sear pin. These drop-in conversion devices were designed to simply sit inside this type of lower reciever and are held in place without the use of any pins, meaning no modification of the receiver was required.

Besides using non-auto fire control group parts and bolt carrier, the open area within the lower receiver required for use of a DIAS or Lightning Link doesn't exist in today's AR recievers. If you see one being used, it's either an old receiver with M16 fire control group parts/bolt carrier installed or they've milled the reciever to accept the drop-in auto part and replaced it's internals with auto-fire capable parts.

In short coledigger, the fella who told you this is spreading a tale that hasn't been true for decades, but it's a myth the gun control types like to keep alive.
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AZEX
Senior Member

1810 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2008 :  12:36:56 PM  Show Profile
Correct, and that's one of the many reasons why Colt sucks. Plus that stupid block they put in thousands of them. Then the cutting of the "ring" on the rear of the bolt carrier for years, but now they put FA carriers in their factory guns.

None of the restrictions (impediments to customer satisfaction) the block, the cut BC, the larger front pin, or the larger hammer/trigger pin have been necessitated by Federal Law. They're just a bunch of Conneticut Yankee sellouts who care more about sucking up to Big Daddy .gov than they do about Freedom.

Screw Colt.

D.

quote:
Originally posted by Txs

I'm a Colt M16/AR15 Armorer.

Due to several design/parts issues, no Colt AR15 manufactured since I believe the 60's or very early 70's can be converted to full-auto by simply installing a drop in auto-sear or lightning link.


www.azexarms.com
www.azexarms.com/forum
DenVII "...maybe because supporting assault weapons is stupid.....is a lost cause.....and it will only turn America against us?"
DenVII-"Tax the rich who have plenty and lower the taxes on the rest of us.
That's very sane and it's exactly what the American people want."
Karl Marx-"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."
A question for the ages. Why do the mods do everything they can to protect an old broke-dick Col. Sanders-lookin' government pencil pusher and how many troll names DOES he have on this board?
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AZEX
Senior Member

1810 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2008 :  12:38:40 PM  Show Profile
And ATF LOSES in Court on this "rule" everytime someone with deep enough pockets, and competant enough legal team takes them to task on it. A pile of parts do not the definition of "machinegun" per Title 18 USC make. But when they ATF loses in court they just act like nothing happened.

D.

quote:
Originally posted by nmyers

From ATF P5300.4, page 128:

"Regardless of the date of manufacture of a DIAS, possession of such a sear and certain M-16 fire control parts is possession of a machinegun as defined by the NFA."

Neal



???? I'd like to see how this magic of engineering works. A LL is basically a paddle and a "loop" that lassos the disconnector. It is designed to allow the BC (semi type) to pivot the paddle, pulling on the loop which pulls the disconnector, thereby achieving safe FA fire. There is no provision for semi, since an FA selector is not required for an LL to function. So, barring an invocation from a Wizard, I doubt that true "select fire" would be possible with an LL. At least none I've ever used were capable of such a feat.

"-select fire is possible with lightning links

-they run about $6k these days"

D.

www.azexarms.com
www.azexarms.com/forum
DenVII "...maybe because supporting assault weapons is stupid.....is a lost cause.....and it will only turn America against us?"
DenVII-"Tax the rich who have plenty and lower the taxes on the rest of us.
That's very sane and it's exactly what the American people want."
Karl Marx-"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."
A question for the ages. Why do the mods do everything they can to protect an old broke-dick Col. Sanders-lookin' government pencil pusher and how many troll names DOES he have on this board?

Edited by - AZEX on 04/14/2008 12:44:53 PM
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Txs
Advanced Member

15855 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2008 :  12:53:00 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by AZEX

They're just a bunch of Conneticut Yankee sellouts who care more about...
...maintaining their contract to supply the US gov't with their products.

However, other AR manufacturers also use redemensioned receivers to increase the difficulty of conversion to automatic fire. Colt just started doing this first.

The reason Colt now uses automatic bolt carriers is that their extra weight increases reliability and federal regs changed to allow this about 2 years ago.
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