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redneckandy
Advanced Member
USA
6619 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2008 : 10:16:27 PM
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A few days ago someone mentioned that suppressors will soon be legal in Missouri. If it is true what all would be involved in getting one besides the $200 atf tax.
Because I found somthing that looks pretty fun.
http://www.gem-tech.com/OASIS.html |
"Dazzle them with brilliance of baffle them with BS."
"Chains is coming"
"ONLY THE PARANOID SURVIVE"
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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ginmaster
Senior Member
USA
1857 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 10:26:53 PM
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| FFL, at least a C&R FFL. |
Stay Alert! Stay Alive. Good luck out there.
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fishkiller41
Advanced Member
USA
40590 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 11:12:25 PM
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| Does a suppressor add to accuracy,lesses recoil, or in any way inhance the performance of a firearm? I could see using one to "POACH", but other than that, i don't really see any advantage to using one. |
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redneckandy
Advanced Member
USA
6619 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 11:52:55 PM
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I have no reason to poach. My property is if anything overpopulated with deer and turkey. In fact I have seen flocks of turkeys that are 100+ in the fields, so its not really a challenge to fill all of my tags. Besides it not worth the risk to me.
A suppressor would be just another "toy" to play with and if its too much of a hassle I probally won't get one. |
"Dazzle them with brilliance of baffle them with BS."
"Chains is coming"
"ONLY THE PARANOID SURVIVE"
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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buschmaster
Advanced Member
USA
15492 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 12:00:52 AM
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| they don't degrade accuracy, ages ago there used to be a type that had some kind of felt "wipe" the bullet passed thru, that degraded accuracy but those are long gone. they don't help accuracy. I think I heard they do make good muzzle brakes. the biggest reason to have a suppressor, obviously, is because it's quieter. it would be nice to go hunting without having to deal with the BANG when your gun goes off. oddly, I don't think they make suppressors for hi powered rifles. I heard they do make suppressors for shotguns, but not available here in the US. made by somebody in south africa. |
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chaosrob
Senior Member
1603 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 12:02:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by buschmaster
they don't degrade accuracy, ages ago there used to be a type that had some kind of felt "wipe" the bullet passed thru, that degraded accuracy but those are long gone. they don't help accuracy. I think I heard they do make good muzzle brakes. the biggest reason to have a suppressor, obviously, is because it's quieter. it would be nice to go hunting without having to deal with the BANG when your gun goes off. oddly, I don't think they make suppressors for hi powered rifles. I heard they do make suppressors for shotguns, but not available here in the US. made by somebody in south africa.
they make them for high powered rifles |
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buschmaster
Advanced Member
USA
15492 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 12:17:29 AM
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| coolness! |
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dan kelly
Advanced Member
Australia
9408 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 12:20:49 AM
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look on the auction side. there are plenty of them on there. from memory they are under the class 111 heading.
they have them for .22`s and .223`s and 308`s,9mm and .45. |
"ah well...such is life!"! |
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chaosrob
Senior Member
1603 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 12:21:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by buschmaster
coolness!
they obviously arent as effective with ammo that is not subsonic, and loading sub sonic ammo for some calibers has been a chore from what I have read. I think there was a thread on here not long ago about loading sub sonic .308 |
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buschmaster
Advanced Member
USA
15492 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 12:28:12 AM
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| how about .300 Rem Ultra Mag, .338 Laupa, 30-06, .375 H&H, etc. |
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CUEANDCUSHION
New Member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 04:07:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by redneckandy
A few days ago someone mentioned that suppressors will soon be legal in Missouri. If it is true what all would be involved in getting one besides the $200 atf tax.
Because I found somthing that looks pretty fun.
http://www.gem-tech.com/OASIS.html
Thank you for sharing andy. Also in MO here. |
Business owner, gun owner, pool player, night owl.
www.cueandcushion.com |
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1911a1-fan
Advanced Member
Chile
31405 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 06:03:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by buschmaster
how about .300 Rem Ultra Mag, .338 Laupa, 30-06, .375 H&H, etc.
it will suppress the initial ignition of powder at the muzzle, but high velocity bullets will still make a sonic "crack", there is no real way to determine the amount of report heard or not heard without testing each one |
quote:
Originally posted by nunn
PLEASE...Will all of you who carry a 1911, chamber loaded, hammer down, unload it, leave it home, and carry something else.
Condition 2 is the most dangerous condition for a 1911. In that condition, it can fire if dropped. I refer to those without the Colt Series 80 passive firing pin safety.
Condition 1 is the way to go. If that makes you nervous, carry chamber empty or get a Glock.
FOR SALE RED GHOST PEPPERS, AKA: BHUT JOLOKIA, ALL 1,000,000
+ SCOVILLE
http://www.GunBroker.com/All/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=98146 |
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11b6r
Advanced Member
USA
13378 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 07:18:28 AM
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| You will need to make the transfer thru a Class III dealer. Not a C&R- sorry. Yes, they make them for HP rifles. No, not silent, but suppress part of the sound. Subsonic IS quieter. Come in handy for target shooting and not spooking my back door neighbors horses. You can also search for silent without a silencer- legal, but quiet. Case in point is CCI 22 cal CB Longs- from a rifle, quiet enuff you will hear bullet hit target. NOTE- an unregistered suppressor will carry the same penalties as an unregistered machinegun. Folks that want to give you instructions on using 2 liter soda bottles to "make your own" are setting you up to become Bubba's girlfriend down at the Graybar Hotel. |
"Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine." |
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Captplaid
Advanced Member
USA
17853 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 11:36:26 AM
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| I think the Remington 24 Speedmaster, a .22lr was sold with an optional silencer. |
Obama believes he can tax your breathing.
Liberty isn't free. It is paid in blood. -Thomas Jefferson
Does anyone remember what the Boston Tea Party was about? |
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Nwcid
Advanced Member
USA
9219 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 1:31:34 PM
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Here is my experience with silencers/suppressors. I own one, have one in transfer, and have one more I am ready to buy right now. I have a .22 thread mount, my 9mm AR suppressed upper is in transfer right now and I am looking at getting QD mount .308 can that will fit on my .223's as well.
A gun makes 2 noises. The first noise you here is the "boom" from the high pressure inside the BBL escaping. This is the noise the suppressor reduces. A suppressor is just a bunch of baffles and works very similar to you car muffler. Depending on how the suppressor is made, the size, and the caliber being used will determine how well the suppressor works. The second noise you hear is the bullet breaking the speed of sound assuming the caliber you are shooting is a supersonic round. .45 ACP is very easy to suppress since the standard round is already subsonic.
Suppressor other then just making things quieter can have some advantages. There are many reasons you want to have a quieter gun. It is more pleasant to shoot. It wont bug your neighbors, many places it is rude to not use one. It nice for new shooters as they are not "loud and scary". My GF's mom told her that I was weird and she should be careful since I owned a suppressor. Well GF's mom had not shot in decades and I was out with her grandson shooting the suppressor. Well I got her to try. At the next family event some how the subject of shooting came up and she said "I really like that silencer and I see why you have one".
The suppressors also reduce flash, recoil and muzzle rise. I dont know why but they seem to increase accuracy too. I have read many reports about increased accuracy and much of that my have to do with the reduced recoil and muzzle rise. I know with my suppressor on my 77/22 I seem to shoot it much better.
They make suppressors for just about every caliber, or one that will work. I know there are tons of .50 BMG cans on the market so yeah they make them for high power rifles. I believe there is one for the 20mm rifles as well but I think those are more of a custom can then a production can.
Suppressors are not that hard to get, the first one takes the most time. If you buy one you will be hooked and keep buying more. The best can for the money is a .22 thread mount. You would be able to put this can on any gun you have threaded to fit with out having to buy expensive adapters. The .22 is the quietest too. With my 77/22 shooting it make about the same noise as dry firing when using subsonic ammo. My 9mm AR upper is still very quite and sounds about like shooting the .22 can with standard ammo. There are many videos out there of suppressors being shot but video is not the same as being there. The actual sound of suppressors is very hard to do with video.
Here are a few pics. For some reason this is the only pic I have of my suppressor on the 77/22
Here is a pic of it on my Kimber .22
Here is a pic of the suppressed 9mm upper
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Just a thought Why would you ask members of a gun forum if you should buy a gun. Kinda like an alcoholic going into a bar to hoping to have someone tell him not to drink.
Anyone who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither!!!
Gun control defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft, and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm.
What are MG's for?
Because if you are going to cry out, "Say Hello To My Little Fren" and you are holding a bolt action .22, you have no style.
John |
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steeltoe1978
Advanced Member
USA
2530 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 2:25:45 PM
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| Make your own. Fill out an ATF form 1, pay the $200, get the police to help you with the fingerprint cards, get the background check, and your local sheriff's approval, wait for the approved and stamped form to come back from the ATF, and there ya go! |
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1911a1-fan
Advanced Member
Chile
31405 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 2:45:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 11b6r
You will need to make the transfer thru a Class III dealer. Not a C&R- sorry.
state of mo REQUIRES you to have a C&R to be able to purchase one through a class III dealer, thats the way it has been for anyone choosing to own c3, sbr, or aow |
quote:
Originally posted by nunn
PLEASE...Will all of you who carry a 1911, chamber loaded, hammer down, unload it, leave it home, and carry something else.
Condition 2 is the most dangerous condition for a 1911. In that condition, it can fire if dropped. I refer to those without the Colt Series 80 passive firing pin safety.
Condition 1 is the way to go. If that makes you nervous, carry chamber empty or get a Glock.
FOR SALE RED GHOST PEPPERS, AKA: BHUT JOLOKIA, ALL 1,000,000
+ SCOVILLE
http://www.GunBroker.com/All/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=98146 |
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Nwcid
Advanced Member
USA
9219 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 11:36:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by steeltoe1978
Make your own. Fill out an ATF form 1, pay the $200, get the police to help you with the fingerprint cards, get the background check, and your local sheriff's approval, wait for the approved and stamped form to come back from the ATF, and there ya go!
If you do a trust or LLC there is no LEO sign off or finger prints. Just sign form, send check, and wait.
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Just a thought Why would you ask members of a gun forum if you should buy a gun. Kinda like an alcoholic going into a bar to hoping to have someone tell him not to drink.
Anyone who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither!!!
Gun control defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft, and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm.
What are MG's for?
Because if you are going to cry out, "Say Hello To My Little Fren" and you are holding a bolt action .22, you have no style.
John |
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hoseman240
Starting Member
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 12:15:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nwcid
quote:
Originally posted by steeltoe1978
Make your own. Fill out an ATF form 1, pay the $200, get the police to help you with the fingerprint cards, get the background check, and your local sheriff's approval, wait for the approved and stamped form to come back from the ATF, and there ya go!
If you do a trust or LLC there is no LEO sign off or finger prints. Just sign form, send check, and wait.
What is the difference between getting individual or trust. I have my paperwork for my C&R and I'm getting ready to purchase my first can. Is a trust that much easier and what is the downside to a trust compared to individual?
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Nwcid
Advanced Member
USA
9219 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 01:12:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hoseman240
What is the difference between getting individual or trust. I have my paperwork for my C&R and I'm getting ready to purchase my first can. Is a trust that much easier and what is the downside to a trust compared to individual?
I am not a lawyer but I do own 2 cans now. First off the C&R has NOTHING to do with getting suppressors. There are some C&R machineguns but you still have to do all NFA paperwork but you do not have to go through a dealer.
To purchase and NFA item as an individual you have to find a dealer, find the item, pay for the item, if the dealer does not have the item it has to be transfered to him. Once the dealer has the item you can start your paperwork. You will need to get a LEO sign off, 2 Fingerprints, 2 passport photos, then send all the paperwork in with your $200 check.
To do a trust transfer you have to have a trust, once the dealer has the item you fill out the forms and sign them and send them off with your $200 check. No photos, No fingerprints, No LEO sign off.
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Just a thought Why would you ask members of a gun forum if you should buy a gun. Kinda like an alcoholic going into a bar to hoping to have someone tell him not to drink.
Anyone who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither!!!
Gun control defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft, and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm.
What are MG's for?
Because if you are going to cry out, "Say Hello To My Little Fren" and you are holding a bolt action .22, you have no style.
John |
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1911a1-fan
Advanced Member
Chile
31405 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 05:19:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nwcid
quote:
Originally posted by hoseman240
What is the difference between getting individual or trust. I have my paperwork for my C&R and I'm getting ready to purchase my first can. Is a trust that much easier and what is the downside to a trust compared to individual?
I am not a lawyer but I do own 2 cans now. First off the C&R has NOTHING to do with getting suppressors. There are some C&R machineguns but you still have to do all NFA paperwork but you do not have to go through a dealer.
To purchase and NFA item as an individual you have to find a dealer, find the item, pay for the item, if the dealer does not have the item it has to be transfered to him. Once the dealer has the item you can start your paperwork. You will need to get a LEO sign off, 2 Fingerprints, 2 passport photos, then send all the paperwork in with your $200 check.
To do a trust transfer you have to have a trust, once the dealer has the item you fill out the forms and sign them and send them off with your $200 check. No photos, No fingerprints, No LEO sign off.
you know this to be fact for the state of missouri??? |
quote:
Originally posted by nunn
PLEASE...Will all of you who carry a 1911, chamber loaded, hammer down, unload it, leave it home, and carry something else.
Condition 2 is the most dangerous condition for a 1911. In that condition, it can fire if dropped. I refer to those without the Colt Series 80 passive firing pin safety.
Condition 1 is the way to go. If that makes you nervous, carry chamber empty or get a Glock.
FOR SALE RED GHOST PEPPERS, AKA: BHUT JOLOKIA, ALL 1,000,000
+ SCOVILLE
http://www.GunBroker.com/All/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=98146 |
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Nwcid
Advanced Member
USA
9219 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 05:46:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 1911a1fan
you know this to be fact for the state of missouri???
Like I said I am not a lawyer but I have gone through one of each process in WA state. I should have stated what I listed are FEDERAL rules. You will need to check with your state laws. As far as I am aware there are NO suppressors listed as C&R FEDERALLY so you will need to go through a local (in state) dealer for the transfer. The best way to find out about local laws is through your local dealers as they will/should have all the info about the rules in your area.
Thanks for pointing that out 1911. I try to keep my posts as factual as I can and if I am not sure I like to say so.
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Just a thought Why would you ask members of a gun forum if you should buy a gun. Kinda like an alcoholic going into a bar to hoping to have someone tell him not to drink.
Anyone who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither!!!
Gun control defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft, and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm.
What are MG's for?
Because if you are going to cry out, "Say Hello To My Little Fren" and you are holding a bolt action .22, you have no style.
John |
Edited by - Nwcid on 06/30/2008 05:48:28 AM |
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1911a1-fan
Advanced Member
Chile
31405 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 05:53:53 AM
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when i lived there i looked into a few items from c&s metalwerks, such as a full auto, and aow , i was told at this time the state of mo requires a minimum of a c&r ffl, although c&r would have nothing to do with the definition of it, they require a ffl for purchase so it was the minimum required by state law
this was about 8 years ago |
quote:
Originally posted by nunn
PLEASE...Will all of you who carry a 1911, chamber loaded, hammer down, unload it, leave it home, and carry something else.
Condition 2 is the most dangerous condition for a 1911. In that condition, it can fire if dropped. I refer to those without the Colt Series 80 passive firing pin safety.
Condition 1 is the way to go. If that makes you nervous, carry chamber empty or get a Glock.
FOR SALE RED GHOST PEPPERS, AKA: BHUT JOLOKIA, ALL 1,000,000
+ SCOVILLE
http://www.GunBroker.com/All/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=98146 |
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cpermd
Advanced Member
5905 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 08:13:14 AM
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For Missouri.
Signing of HB2034 June 26 2008 allows suppressors to be owned by persons with a FFL, this includes C&R FFLs beginning Aug 28 2008.
It has nothing to do with C&R status of the gun or suppresor.
It is stupid but is a start in allowing them.
Get your C&R FFL now. 
CP
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Nwcid
Advanced Member
USA
9219 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 10:39:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cpermd
For Missouri.
Signing of HB2034 June 26 2008 allows suppressors to be owned by persons with a FFL, this includes C&R FFLs beginning Aug 28 2008.
It has nothing to do with C&R status of the gun or suppresor.
It is stupid but is a start in allowing them.
Get your C&R FFL now.
CP
So does this mean if you buy a suppressor that you have to KEEP an FFL of some sort as long as you own it? I know it is not hard to get or keep a C&R just wondering.
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Just a thought Why would you ask members of a gun forum if you should buy a gun. Kinda like an alcoholic going into a bar to hoping to have someone tell him not to drink.
Anyone who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither!!!
Gun control defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft, and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm.
What are MG's for?
Because if you are going to cry out, "Say Hello To My Little Fren" and you are holding a bolt action .22, you have no style.
John |
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cpermd
Advanced Member
5905 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 11:38:18 AM
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quote:
So does this mean if you buy a suppressor that you have to KEEP an FFL of some sort as long as you own it? I know it is not hard to get or keep a C&R just wondering.
Shhh!!
The law doesn't address that little question?
CP
[/quote] |
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1911a1-fan
Advanced Member
Chile
31405 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 4:18:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nwcid
quote:
Originally posted by cpermd
For Missouri.
Signing of HB2034 June 26 2008 allows suppressors to be owned by persons with a FFL, this includes C&R FFLs beginning Aug 28 2008.
It has nothing to do with C&R status of the gun or suppresor.
It is stupid but is a start in allowing them.
Get your C&R FFL now.
CP
So does this mean if you buy a suppressor that you have to KEEP an FFL of some sort as long as you own it? I know it is not hard to get or keep a C&R just wondering.
not sure, but i have a friend that has a few full auto's, including a m-16 suppressed from years ago, who has given up his ffl |
quote:
Originally posted by nunn
PLEASE...Will all of you who carry a 1911, chamber loaded, hammer down, unload it, leave it home, and carry something else.
Condition 2 is the most dangerous condition for a 1911. In that condition, it can fire if dropped. I refer to those without the Colt Series 80 passive firing pin safety.
Condition 1 is the way to go. If that makes you nervous, carry chamber empty or get a Glock.
FOR SALE RED GHOST PEPPERS, AKA: BHUT JOLOKIA, ALL 1,000,000
+ SCOVILLE
http://www.GunBroker.com/All/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=98146 |
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Suppressors legality in MO.
