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pruss
New Member

55 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2009 :  8:14:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bert, I'm new here and not sure if your survey is still active but here goes.
Model 94-32 WIN.-SPL. S/N 2339316 standard sights, checkered steel shotgun butt plate.

Model-94-30-30 WIN- S/N 2308582 Standard sights, checkered steel shotgun butt plate.

Model-94-30-30- WIN S/N 2538455 standard sights, checkered steel shotgun butt plate.
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2009 :  12:28:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pruss

Hi Bert, I'm new here and not sure if your survey is still active but here goes.
Model 94-32 WIN.-SPL. S/N 2339316 standard sights, checkered steel shotgun butt plate.

Model-94-30-30 WIN- S/N 2308582 Standard sights, checkered steel shotgun butt plate.

Model-94-30-30- WIN S/N 2538455 standard sights, checkered steel shotgun butt plate.



Hello,

Yes, my survey is still ongoing (I suspect that I will continue it for quite some time). I have sent all of my data to Robert Renneberg for the revised edition to his reference book, but I am still collecting data to refine what I already know and have.

1. Serial 2308582 is a late 1958 production gun.

2. Serial 2339316 is an early 1959 production gun.

3. Serial 2538455 is an early 1962 production gun.

Thank you very much for participating in the survey

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AlanP
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2009 :  8:28:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bert,

Don't know if this helps, but I have a 94 with the "W" marked aft of the serial number. SN 124895X. Is that a 1941 DOM?
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2009 :  11:35:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AlanP

Bert,

Don't know if this helps, but I have a 94 with the "W" marked aft of the serial number. SN 124895X. Is that a 1941 DOM?



Hello Alan,

It was manufactured in late October of 1940. If you do not mind, please answer the following;

1. Caliber
2. Butt plate type (it should be the serrated style)
3. The complete serial number

If you prefer, you can email the information to me at Win1885@msn.com

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AlanP
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2009 :  1:18:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bert,

Thank you, sir.

Caliber is 30 wcf. Yes, the buttplate is serrated. 1248953

How many different styles of elevators for the rear sight were there, and are there dates for which styles were used when? I have a feeling the elevator on mine is a newer replacement.

Edited by - AlanP on 07/28/2009 1:20:15 PM
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2009 :  2:55:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AlanP

Bert,

Thank you, sir.

Caliber is 30 wcf. Yes, the buttplate is serrated. 1248953

How many different styles of elevators for the rear sight were there, and are there dates for which styles were used when? I have a feeling the elevator on mine is a newer replacement.



Hello Alan,

You are quite welcome, and thank you for the added information.

During the timeframe when your Carbine was made, Winchester used several different types of rear sights, each with its own specific elevator. Without knowing which type of rear sight you have, I can not deteremine which elevator your Carbine should have. Can you post (or send me) a picture of the rear sight and the elevator?

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AlanP
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2009 :  7:37:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Does this angle show what you need?




Edited by - AlanP on 07/28/2009 7:44:16 PM
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2009 :  01:32:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Alan,

Close, but the lighting is not so good. If possible, please take the exact same picture shots outdoors in natural lighting (indirect sunlight).

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AlanP
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2009 :  7:03:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Will these work?





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Bert H.
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11329 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2009 :  12:48:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Alan,

The last set of pictures were perfect, and you do indeed have the correct rear sight and elevator. It appears to be a very nice condition pre-war carbine

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AlanP
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2009 :  12:17:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you, sir.

In looking at different sight elevators, (and keeping the very limited scope of my knowledge in mind) it seems like there is the "1C" sight elevator, and the "3C" sight elevator. Were there different versions of each, and were both types used all through production? Or were the 1C elevators an old version, while the 3Cs were used on newer manufactures? In other words, are there correct elevators for DOM?
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2009 :  01:09:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AlanP

Thank you, sir.

In looking at different sight elevators, (and keeping the very limited scope of my knowledge in mind) it seems like there is the "1C" sight elevator, and the "3C" sight elevator. Were there different versions of each, and were both types used all through production? Or were the 1C elevators an old version, while the 3Cs were used on newer manufactures? In other words, are there correct elevators for DOM?



I can not get into any great detail at this time (I loaned all of my old catalogs/reference material to a friend of mine in another state), and I need to refer to it to fully answer your question.

What I can tell you, is that Winchester used the 1B/1C series sight elevators on all of the early Model 1894s with the 24 series rear sights, and later on the Carbines with the rear sight dovetail slot that was cut approximately 5-inches from the frame ring. The 3C elevator was used on the 26 series sights, and when the rear sight dovetail cut was closer to the frame ring.

There are no hard set rules concering what type of rear sight was used based on DOMs. Winchester would install just about any type of sight a customer wanted, and they installed several variations on their own volition.

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VirgilCaine
Member

USA
871 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2009 :  9:33:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote












A 64, made in 53 I think.

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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2009 :  10:45:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Virgil,

Very nice Model 64 Deer Rifle. Based on my research, it is a very late 1952 production gun. If you get the urge to verify it, remove the forend stock and the magazine tube, and look for the 2-digit year stamped on the bottom of the barrel right next to where it screws into the receiver frame... my bet is that it has "52" stamped on it.

Thank you very much for posting the great pictures of it.

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chw
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2009 :  2:48:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i have win model 94 serial # 1364701 30wcf. round barrel band one looks like an L checked flat steel butt plate.
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2009 :  4:06:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chw

i have win model 94 serial # 1364701 30wcf. round barrel band one looks like an L checked flat steel butt plate.



Your Model 94 Sporting Carbine was manufactured in the first half of the year 1946 (April/May). Is the upper tang marked?

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chw
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2009 :  4:46:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the tang is not marked. the hammer is a checkered panel. the rear sight adjustment has the serrated adjustment handle at the rear of the sight cw
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Bert H.
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11329 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2009 :  6:10:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chw

the tang is not marked. the hammer is a checkered panel. the rear sight adjustment has the serrated adjustment handle at the rear of the sight cw



Thank you for the added information

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Carla
Starting Member

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2009 :  11:12:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello, Bert,

I'm checking in with the only two of my rifles which are within your survey parameters.

the first is a model 94 carbine, S/N 1303197.

The barrel marking is "Winchester Proof Steel" and "30 W.C.F."

It has the type 7 tang marking. The tang does have the tapped/plugged hole for tang sight.

It has the milled band, and serrated shotgun type butt-plate.

The first "1" character in the S/N appears to be a common or standard type numeral, with crossbar at the bottom of the vertical portion, and down-slanted angular marking to the left at the top, and no "W" or other letter mark below the S/N.

The hammer spur has small square checkered area, not the later cross-serrated type.

The left side of the receiver does not have tapped holes for Lyman/Redfield type sight.

This carbine has the same type of sight elevator pictured earlier in this thread with carbine #16479XX. The centre of the rear sight dovetail in the barrel is 3.050 from the forward face of the receiver. (the distance from the receiver face reads 2.862 to the after corner of the sight dovetail, as read with a dial caliper. Adding .188, as half of a standard 3/8" dovetail, gives the 3.050 dimension)

I have owned this carbine for approx twenty years. It was in "nearly as new" condition when I got it, with no evidence of repair or alteration, so I believe it to be "as original". The screws appear to have never been turned, or, if ever turned, turned very carefully with a correctly fitting screw driver.

The second is a Model 64 "Deer", S/N 1634720, 24" barrel, with what appears to be the original 1" leather sling, with Q/D swivels.

The barrel marking is "Winchester Proof Steel" and "30 W. C. F."

The top tang is unmarked, and does not have tapped hole for tang sight.

The hammer spur is the usual post-war cross-serrated type.

The receiver has the tapped holes for Lyman/Redfield type receiver sight. It does not have the bolt cut for a Winchester bolt sight.

The butt-plate is the checkered/pointed-top type, same as a Model 70.

I would note that the "font" or "style" of the numerals in the S/N is of a later, less "serifed" or "more simple" character than the S/N numerals on the earlier carbine.

It would be an item of minor interest to find the S/N range at which the numeral character "font" shapes were changed, and whether there was an "over-lap" indicating character stamp changes in the different stamping machines/fixtures over some length of time.

I'm the second owner of this rifle, which was carefully preserved in "as new" condition by the original purchaser, until he passed away, and I purchased the rifle from his family.

I got two boxes of 30-30 rounds with the rifle, of which ten had been fired. The boxes/rounds appeared to be of 1950-ish vintage. It may....and I'd stress *may*... be that this rifle has fired only ten rounds in its life, going by the complete lack of wear marks on the moving parts.

The deceased owner was known to have used a Model 70 for hunting, for many years, so its possible that he may have purchased the M64, carried it hunting for one season, decided he preferred a bolt rifle, and simply stored the M64 away in the closet where the family found it. We'll never know, of course.

I now feel rather a fool for having bought this one, as I can't bring myself to actually use it, for fear of accidental scratches, or whatever, to one this well preserved.

Bert, may I ask a minor favour of you?

Recently, I found a 94 for sale locally, and a friend of mine purchased it. This one is in the 1.8 million S/N range, I didn't note the number. It has the usual post-war characteristics, "30-30" barrel marking, serrated hammer, but not drilled/tapped for receiver sight, so presumably 1951-52 approximate vintage.

This carbine is in reasonably good condition, showing some use, and is original except for the butt-plate being missing. A previous owner had fitted a "brand X' recoil pad, presumably to lengthen the pull to his preference, as the stock was not cut. Fortunately, he drilled the pad for the original screw locations instead of drilling into the stock, so it will be a simple matter to replace the butt-plate, if one can be found.

Could you recommend any source where I might be able to find a correct original checkered butt-plate for a 94? If so, please e-mail me, carla.satra@earthlink.net














cheers

Carla
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2009 :  01:37:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Carla,

Your Model 94 Carbine is an October 1941 vintage Winchester. All of the features you describe are exactly as they should be for a late pre-war Carbine.

Your Model 64 Deer Rifle is a late 1949 vintage Winchester. In the condition you describe, it could easily be a $2K+ collector grade gun.

A model 94 Carbine in the 1.8 million serial range has the very common flat checkered steel butt plate. Try Numrich (e-gunparts)

Thanks for adding the information on your Winchesters to this post and my survey. If you have any additional questions, please let me know.

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Real Men own and shoot a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!



Edited by - Bert H. on 09/10/2009 10:38:58 AM
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Carla
Starting Member

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2009 :  04:44:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello again, Bert,

Firstly, just for the record, I'm a "Carla"....my father and grandfather were both "Carl", so.....well, you get the idea.... : )

I'd already tried Numrich, and a couple other internet sites of firms advertising parts for older Winchesters, for the early '50's M94 butt-plate.....no joy..... : (

Could you recommend any other possible source?

Thank you for the date of mfg information on my Winchesters.

The little M94 has been an especial "pet" for many years now. I serve as rangemaster, part-timey, of a couple of ranges here in the S. F. bay area, and teach basic firearms safety/proficiency for "newbies".

The M94 has seen somewhere around 3 to 4 thousand rounds (I really should have kept some count) of "familiarisation fire" for new shooters, and has performed reliably with only ordinary cleaning/oiling maintenence.

With hand loads developed for it, somewhat less powerful than factory ammunition, it has done just under 1 moa 5 shot groups at 100 yards. (but I'll admit that was over sand-bags, on a windless day, and with the barrel allowed to cool between shots.)

cheers

Carla

(NRA life, Secretary of the Santa Clara Valley Rifle Club)





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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2009 :  10:44:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Carla (and I apologize for the mistake on the last reply to you).

Art Pirkle has a lot of Winchester lever-action parts, and he usually has a table at the November Big Reno show (which is just a hop & a skip for you). Please consider attending the November show, as it is also the WACA sponsored show.

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spurrat
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2009 :  11:57:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bert, this is a very interesting post.

My Winchester is 1548853
Stamped 94-32W.S.-
Checkered steel buttplate
No upper tang marking
Not drilled or tapped
Standard carbine
Milled band

Hope this info is of use.

Jason

Edited by - spurrat on 09/16/2009 11:58:20 PM
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2009 :  01:23:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spurrat

Hi Bert, this is a very interesting post.

My Winchester is 1548853
Stamped 94-32W.S.-
Checkered steel buttplate
No upper tang marking
Not drilled or tapped
Standard carbine
Milled band

Hope this info is of use.

Jason



Hello Jason,

Yes it is, and thank you for participating in this survey. Your Carbine was manufactured in the latter part of the year 1948.

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AFB
Starting Member

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2009 :  02:32:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bert H.

Hello all.

I am attempting to research all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please either post your information here, or send it directly to me at Win1885@msn.com.

Edit: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...

1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking (see the pictures below for examples).
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole (see the pictures below).
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank (see the pictures below).
5. Is the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. U.S. martial or PCMR marked guns?
7. Nickel Steel or Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,310,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?

More specifically, I am trying to determine the approximate serial number transition point for...

(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,




(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."




(3) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.

Carbine butt plate used only on the Model 94...


Serrated steel butt plate used on both the Model 94 and 55...


Checkered steel butt plate used only on the Model 94...


Checkered steel with widows peak butt plate used almost exclusively on the Model 64... (this type of butt plate was first introduced for the Model 1887 and 1897 shotguns)


(4) Upper Tang roll stamp types.

Type 5


Type 6


Type 7


(5) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).



(6) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band

Milled Band...




Flat-Band...



(7) The exact Serial range for the "W" stamped guns...



(8) The exact Serial range for the "L" stamped guns...




And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.

If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.

Thanks in advance to all who respond & participate.

Bert H.


AB
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AFB
Starting Member

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2009 :  02:48:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Bert, Here are the stats on my Mod.94.
1. Ser.# 1468136
2. Model 94-32 W.S.-
3. Flat checkered steel buttplate
4. No upper tang markings.
5. Not drilled or tapped.
6. No U.S. martial or PCMR marks.
7. Proof steel marked barrel.
8. No saddle ring. [Eastern carbine?]
11.Flat-band barrel band.

I have a question about my Mod.94. When it was shipped did it have a front-sight shroud or was that an extra? Also, what was the purpose of switching to the flat-band barrel band? I heard it was a cost cutting measure due to WW2. Thanks.

AB
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2009 :  10:14:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AFB

Hello Bert, Here are the stats on my Mod.94.
1. Ser.# 1468136
2. Model 94-32 W.S.-
3. Flat checkered steel buttplate
4. No upper tang markings.
5. Not drilled or tapped.
6. No U.S. martial or PCMR marks.
7. Proof steel marked barrel.
8. No saddle ring. [Eastern carbine?]
11.Flat-band barrel band.

I have a question about my Mod.94. When it was shipped did it have a front-sight shroud or was that an extra? Also, what was the purpose of switching to the flat-band barrel band? I heard it was a cost cutting measure due to WW2. Thanks.



Yes, it was shipped with a front sight shroud.

The switch to the flat-band occurred after WW II, and was therefore not a cost cutting measure related to the war. Why exactly the change was made is not known, but Winchester continually made changes to nearly all of their various models in an effort to cut costs, and to simplify and speed up the production process.

Edit: Your Model 94 is a standard "Sporting Carbine" versus an "Eastern Carbine". Eastern Carbines were made prior to the year 1932.

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Real Men own and shoot a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!



Edited by - Bert H. on 09/17/2009 10:35:13 AM
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AFB
Starting Member

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2009 :  2:06:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bert, I forgot to ask if you knew the DOM of my Mod.94. Ser.#1468136.
I also own another Mod.94# 4371936 and would be interested to know the DOM. Thanks

AB
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2009 :  2:47:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AFB

Bert, I forgot to ask if you knew the DOM of my Mod.94. Ser.#1468136.
I also own another Mod.94# 4371936 and would be interested to know the DOM. Thanks



I forgot to add it to my first reply (I usually provide that information). Serial 1468136 was manufactured in the late months of 1947. If you remove the forend stock and magzine tube, you will find a "47" stamped on the bottom of the barrel.

I do not have specific information for the post-1963 production Model 94s, but my guess is that serial 4371936 is a mid 1970s production gun.

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blackgun
New Member

60 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2009 :  7:47:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just traded for a model 55.25-35 caliber.ser no.1075526.nickel steel.crescent butt plate.any info appreciated.thanks.

I like to keep a bottle of stimulant handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy..W.C.Fields
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Bert H.
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11329 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2009 :  10:52:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blackgun

I just traded for a model 55.25-35 caliber.ser no.1075526.nickel steel.crescent butt plate.any info appreciated.thanks.



Hello blackgun,

Serial number 1075526 was manufactured in May of 1931, and as such, it should be a solid frame Model 55 versus the more common Take Down. The crescent butt plate is extremely unusual, but it could be factory original. I have a few questions for you;

1. Can you post (or send me) pictures of the butt stock & butt plate?
2. Does it have the type 6 upper tang stamp?
3. Can you remove the forend stock & magazine tube, and verify the 2-digit year stamp on the bottom of the barrel?

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blackgun
New Member

60 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2009 :  11:46:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is type 6 upper tang stamp.Has the 31 on bbl.as well as 25 6 and mns.will get a pic today if my camera is returned.the tang screws are a little boogered up,so maybe a replacement stock?guy i got it from says his uncle gave it to him when he turned 16 and that his uncle received it from his great uncle who bought it new. thanks
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Bert H.
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USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2009 :  2:09:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blackgun

It is type 6 upper tang stamp.Has the 31 on bbl.as well as 25 6 and mns.will get a pic today if my camera is returned.the tang screws are a little boogered up,so maybe a replacement stock?guy i got it from says his uncle gave it to him when he turned 16 and that his uncle received it from his great uncle who bought it new. thanks



The "31" is the date stamp, and the "25" is the caliber. "MNS" is Midvale Nickel Steel.

I suspected that the butt stock may not be original, which is why I asked for the pictures. The pictures will enable me to answer that question.

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k7grc
Starting Member

39 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2009 :  3:03:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
here is one I have

1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).

1413024

2. The exact caliber stamp marking (see the pictures below for examples).

MODEL 94 -30W.C.F.-

3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole (see the pictures below).

Flat checkered steel

4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank (see the pictures below).

blank

5. Is the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?

no.

6. U.S. martial or PCMR marked guns?
7. Nickel Steel or Proof Steel marked barrel?

proof steel

8. Does it have a saddle ring?

no


11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?

flat band


Gordon

Banks, Oregon
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2009 :  5:03:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by k7grc

here is one I have

1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).

1413024

2. The exact caliber stamp marking (see the pictures below for examples).

MODEL 94 -30W.C.F.-

3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole (see the pictures below).

Flat checkered steel

4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank (see the pictures below).

blank

5. Is the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?

no.

6. U.S. martial or PCMR marked guns?
7. Nickel Steel or Proof Steel marked barrel?

proof steel

8. Does it have a saddle ring?

no


11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?

flat band


Gordon



Hello Gordon,

Thank you very much for participating in my survey.

Your Model 94 flat-band Carbine was manufactured very early in the year 1947. The underside of the barrel could be marked "46" or "47". If you are willing, please remove the forend stock and look at the bottom of the barrel (see the pictures below)








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mikey888f
Starting Member

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2009 :  02:33:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
bert: i was able to find a correct 1961 range 94 using the number range you gave me a couple months back (2,466,xxx). i don't have it or the exact number in front of me but will send all info for the survey. what is the correct butt plate of a 1961 vintage? thanks, mike
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2009 :  08:39:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mikey888f

bert: i was able to find a correct 1961 range 94 using the number range you gave me a couple months back (2,466,xxx). i don't have it or the exact number in front of me but will send all info for the survey. what is the correct butt plate of a 1961 vintage? thanks, mike



The correct butt plate for a 1961 vintage gun is the flat checkered steel type. A composite type with the Winchester logo could be special ordered, and is frequently found on the guns with special order (deluxe) stocks.

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mikey888f
Starting Member

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2009 :  8:14:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
bert: for those of us with limited mechanical skills, could you list a few simple steps for removing the forearm to get a the year number stamped on the barrel (without damage!)? mike thanks!
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2009 :  10:52:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mikey888f

bert: for those of us with limited mechanical skills, could you list a few simple steps for removing the forearm to get a the year number stamped on the barrel (without damage!)? mike thanks!



For starters, your 1961 vintage Carbine will not have a year number stamped on the bottom of the barrel... Winchester stopped stamping them in early 1955.

As for removing the forend stock, the most important advice I can give anyone, is to use a properly fitting hollow-ground screwdriver. Never use the standard garden variety screwdriver on any gun, let alone an old Winchester.

The first step is to remove the screws from both of the barrel bands. If they are tight (or do not want to turn easily), do not force then. Use a drop or two of Kroil on each end of the screw, and let it soak overnight. Make sure that you do not leave any Kriol on the wood.

Before attempting to remove (move) either barrel band, lubricate the front section of the forend stock (forward of the barrel band) with some furniture oil (I like to stand the gun on its butt and drizzle a small amount of the furniture oil onto the front edge of the barrel band and let it sit for about 30-minutes. For the front barrel band, I use a small amount of Kroil.

After letting it sit for awhile, gently tap the forend stock barrel band forward towards the muzzle (a piece of wood dowel works well). Once the band starts to move, carefully slide it forward until it clears the stock. Pull the forend stock forward until it clears the receiver frame channel. Next, gently tap the front barrel band to the rear until it slides freely to the rear. Then, pull the magazine tube forward until it clears the recessed hole in the receiver frame.

At this point you really do not need to go any further to see the date, but at this point, it may be evident that there is some crud that needs cleaning. If so, carefully slide the magazine tube all the way forward until it clears the forend stock channel and the rear barrel band (both of which will then drop freely into your hand), then continue to pull forward until the mag tube clears the front barrel band. Slip the front band up and over the front sight, and you are now ready to inspect and clean as necessary. Note that the magazine tube as two grooves in it that correspond to where the barrel band screws pass through... you will need to realign those grooves when you reassemble it.

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surferdude
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2009 :  3:02:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bert,

I just inherited a model 94 from my father that I am trying to learn more about.
Here is the information, specific to your survey.

1 Serial # 1393442

2 Caliber marking- Model 94 -30 W.C.F.-

3 It has the checkered steel butt plate

4 the upper tang is blank

5 Not drilled or tapped for sights

6 ? the only markings I see are an oval with a W over a P, or P over W depending on interpretation. There is one of these on the barrel near the receiver, and one on the top of the receiver near the barrel. There is also a stamp on the bottom of the rifle right in front of the trigger that reads BZ

7 Barrel is marked Winchester Proof Steel

8 No saddle ring

9 N/A

10 N/A

11 It has the flat band

12 N/A

13 N/A

14 N/A

I am interested in any information about this rifle, specifically the WP, and the BZ stamps. The date of manufacture, etc.

Thank you in advance for your help.
Troy
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2009 :  5:58:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Troy,

Your Flat-band Carbine was made sometime near the middle part of the year 1946.

The marking on the barrel and frame ring is Winchester's definitive proof mark, and it is a superposed "WP" (Winchester Proof).

The "BZ" on the bottom of the frame is an inspectors stamp (final fit, finish, and function).

Thank you for participating in my survey

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mikey888f
Starting Member

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2009 :  02:24:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
bert: could you please give me the serial # range for 1954? thanks, mike
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2009 :  09:55:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mikey888f

bert: could you please give me the serial # range for 1954? thanks, mike



Hello Mike,

I have that information posted in this topic post - http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=245213

2045001 - 2100500 (this is my best guess estimate at this time)

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Broke Hoss
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2009 :  04:30:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Bert,
This is great stuff, and your work is appreciated.

I have a mdl 94 I inherited from my dad; great shooter that still takes deer. Here's the info as best I can relate it:

1-Serial# 1619785
2-caliber stamp 32 W.S.
3-checkered butt plate
4-no upper tang markings
5-not drilled for peep sight
6-proof steel
7-no saddle ring

The DOM would be appreciated any further info needed by you?
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2009 :  8:52:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Broke Hoss

Hey Bert,
This is great stuff, and your work is appreciated.

I have a mdl 94 I inherited from my dad; great shooter that still takes deer. Here's the info as best I can relate it:

1-Serial# 1619785
2-caliber stamp 32 W.S.
3-checkered butt plate
4-no upper tang markings
5-not drilled for peep sight
6-proof steel
7-no saddle ring

The DOM would be appreciated any further info needed by you?



Hello Broke Hoss,

Your Model 94 was manufactured mid year 1949, and it is a standard Carbine. It should have the long style forend stock. If you are so inclined, please verify the 2-digit year number stamp on the bottom of the barrel.

Thank you very much for participating in my survey

GunBroker.com Moderator

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Bert H. - http://www.bbhc.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/

Real Men own and shoot a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!



Edited by - Bert H. on 11/01/2009 8:53:47 PM
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Zaphodb17
Starting Member

USA
40 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2009 :  10:20:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is this a Model 94?

Caliber:38-55
Serial #: 7223
Carbine Butt Plate
Winchester markings on barrel forward of rear sight
Markings on Tang:
Model 1894
-Winchester-
Pat.Aug.21 1894.
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2009 :  11:10:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zaphodb17

Is this a Model 94?

Caliber:38-55
Serial #: 7223
Carbine Butt Plate
Winchester markings on barrel forward of rear sight
Markings on Tang:
Model 1894
-Winchester-
Pat.Aug.21 1894.




Actually, it is a Model "1894", and it is a very early production one at that. The serial number indicates mid year 1895 as the manufacture date.

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Zaphodb17
Starting Member

USA
40 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  09:52:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Bert. I'm beginning to find these things out and I appreciate both your help and the info on this website. I'm trying to research a couple of rifles left by my father's passing. There's another Model 1894, ID'd in the 22nd edition of Gun Trader's Guide, as a Carbine, Cal. 38-55, serial# 424956, and a Model 1873 Rifle, Cal. 32-20, serial# 1928555B. Any clue what the "B" suffix was for? Also, I guess, the Model 1894, serial# 7223 in the previous post is a takedown rifle. My goal is to establish a value for these and sell them for my mom's benefit. Thanks again for the reply above.
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11329 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  3:08:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zaphodb17

Thanks Bert. I'm beginning to find these things out and I appreciate both your help and the info on this website. I'm trying to research a couple of rifles left by my father's passing. There's another Model 1894, ID'd in the 22nd edition of Gun Trader's Guide, as a Carbine, Cal. 38-55, serial# 424956, and a Model 1873 Rifle, Cal. 32-20, serial# 1928555B. Any clue what the "B" suffix was for? Also, I guess, the Model 1894, serial# 7223 in the previous post is a takedown rifle. My goal is to establish a value for these and sell them for my mom's benefit. Thanks again for the reply above.



You are quite welcome.

Being that the first Model 1894 (serial 7223) is a Take Down Sporting Rifle, it is very important to determine the exact configuration and the graded condition before a value estimate can be determined. In order to do that via the internet, I will need to see a series of clear well illuminated pictures. This rifle is potentially worth several thousand dollars.

Model 1894 serial number was manufactured mid November, 1905. If it is a Carbine, it should have a saddle ring on the left rear side of the receiver frame. It too is potentially valuable, but again, I will need to see pictures of the gun.

Model 1873 serial number 1928555 was manufactured sometime in the early 1880s. The "B" is not actually part of the serial number, and it indicates that it is a Third Model, and that it was manufactured with the latest changes (improvements) to the receiver/frame.

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elglide
Starting Member

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2009 :  6:21:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My 94 is #2039529 milled barrel bandsw, factory drilled for peep, checked butt plate _32 WIN. SPL._
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