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 Competition Shooting and Reloading
 .338-300 Win MAG Wildcats
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DENWA
Junior Member

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2008 :  08:56:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
1. Are there Wildcats (or commerical) cartridges that use the 300 Win Mag Case?

2. If no, Why not? The common sense MAg for the .338 should be the longer 300 Win Case. Why in the .338 win Mag did they use a shorter case?

3. If one were to neck up a .300 Win Mag is the neck too short for .338 or .358 etc dia bullets?


Not that I have the money for a project right now, just really wondering the logic behind Cartridge development in the 1960's.


Thanks

Semper Fi

Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

3492 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2008 :  10:43:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The .338 came first, along with .264 and .458, fitting their ideas at the time.
Winchester later brought out the .300 with longer body - shorter neck to have an advantage over the proprietary .308 Norma which pretty much IS a .30-338.
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PA Shootist
Member

USA
603 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2008 :  5:55:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a .338 Winchester Magnum caliber rifle, and consider it just fine as is. I don't think I'm a sissy, and I do a lot of rifle shooting in target matches, military surplus bolt-actions of all kinds, etc. The .338 Winchester Magnum comes in at the top of my recoil tolerance, manageable in a well-stocked rifle OK, but surely it is just plenty of rifle, shoots flat enough and accurately enough, hits plenty hard enough. I don't think I would want, or would enjoy, or could effectively use, more powder capacity, and the associated extra blast and recoil. So my vote is to stay with the .338 Win. Mag. if you need a heavier rifle for large North American game.
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DENWA
Junior Member

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2008 :  08:17:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think the .338 is bad the way it is, Just not all it could be.

Is there a .338-300 Win MAG commercial cartridge?





Semper Fi
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nononsense
Moderator

8967 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2008 :  1:10:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


"Is there a .338-300 Win MAG commercial cartridge?"

Sure, it's named .330 Dakota.

- 94.0 gr. H2O case capacity
- No belt
- fits into a standard length action
- Needs a wider magazine like the RUM cases



There are other variations that also have greater potential as long as you follow some of the rules of physics.

"1. Are there Wildcats (or commerical) cartridges that use the 300 Win Mag Case?"

The best of the wildcats is the .338/375 Ruger which will be similar to the .330 Dakota except the case capacity is 99.0 Grains of H2O. It also doesn't require a special magazine width or a longer action. It fits in the standard length actions with 0.532" bolt face.

The newest of the commercial cartridges is the .338 Norma Magnum. No, not the Lapua Magnum, the NORMA Magnum. Black Hills Ammunition either has the brass or will be getting a new shipment shortly. The basic testing is finished so the public will have access now.

If you want bigger, there is the .338 RUM, .340 Weatherby and the .338-378 Weatherby.

Bigger than that will get you the .338/408 Chey-Tac or the .338 Xtreme which is built on a modified .505 Gibbs case.

The handicap that we all suffer under when dealing with the factory rifles is the barrel length. There is a limit to the velocity attainable when the factory only puts a 26" barrel on the rifle. You can maximize some of this loss by reloading and balancing the powder/bullet combination but it really does help to have a longer barrel. More powder does not always net you more velocity.

Best.








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DENWA
Junior Member

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2008 :  12:13:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So technically there aren't any cartridges that use the .300 Win Mag case.


Interesting.


Thanks!

Semper Fi
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nononsense
Moderator

8967 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2008 :  09:25:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
DENWA,

The original concept of the belt was to create a positive headspace feature that was consistent and reliable under some diverse conditions. The name given to these cartridges and the advertising led folks to believe (and some still do) that the cases were stronger than they actually were. The average guy thought that he had to have a magnum so the ammunition manufacturers were off and running. The fact is that we can turn the belts off of virtually every modern cartridge with the exception of the original .375 H&H and the .300 H&H. You end up with a cartridge that looks like the .375 Ruger or the 8x68S type cases really.

There is no reason to use the .300 Win. Mag. case. It has nothing to offer that the other cases don't have and in the current trend of belt haters, it's on the outside looking in. You can get a case that's designed better that has the same or similar capacity.

The argument about short or longer necks isn't holding up well these days with the experimentation going on, as long as you keep the discussion limited to accuracy. Look up cartridges named 'Wolf Pup' or Fat Mac. I think it makes a good argument for short necks and accuracy. However, it does not address throat erosion or plasma impingement or a dozen other problems that have to do with plasma activity in a case or barrel.

Wolf Pup


Fat Mac


If you are really drawn to using the the .300 Win. Mag. case for the .338 bullet, have at it! Questions such as this have never been solved by just thinking about it unless it's been totally off base. Most of us assemble a variety of reamers, a spare barrel and an action that we can use for testing then get to work. Be aware that unless you know a gunsmith that happens to be a dedicated wildcatter, you might run into some significant investments.

Best.








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DENWA
Junior Member

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2008 :  1:01:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nononsense,

as always; you are a wealth of knowledge and truly great asset to us all!

Thanks

Semper Fi
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