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 paging Mr Goforth - H&R 922 with no serial #
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bigbunjii
Starting Member

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2008 :  11:28:13 PM  Show Profile
Hello. First post here. Was referred here and to ask for a Mr Bill Goforth by a fellow over on www.TheHighRoad.us.

I recently purchased a H&R 922 off of GunBroker...only to discover it has no serial number. I've talked with people and figured out this SHOULDN'T be a problem with Michigan but now I'm curious. Everyone says to check here and there and take the grips off and check the back of the cylinder...but nothing. It has plastic (bakelite?) grips and a 2.5" barrel. Here is the auction:
http://www.GunBroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=117036367

The cylinder has a 5 on it next to the "flower" and that's it. Only markings are the Model 922 H & R ARMS CO, and Worchester, MASS USA on the barrel. Nothing underneath the grips other than rust and goo.

Any way I can ID it and/or figure out it's age? Thanks to all in advance.

Some guns.

rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15428 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2008 :  11:58:22 PM  Show Profile
Bill will be along shortly, to give us all the straight skinny. My thoughts on the matter is that years ago H & R made a Starters Pistol on the same frame as their small revolvers. Perhaps some old world craftsman decided he wanted the real thing, and got hold of the parts to make it happen?
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grumpygy
Advanced Member

USA
30422 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2008 :  12:52:50 AM  Show Profile
Till he gets here. One of his old posts

quote:
the h&r model 922 was introduced approx. 1925. it was h&r's first large frame 22 rimfire revolver. between 1925 and 1952 the only barrel length was 6 inches, the 10 inch barrel version was called "the hunter". the octagon barrel was dropped in 1937 and the round barrel introduced in 1938. the two piece saw handle grips were dropped in 1930 and the grip frame was changed in 1931 to accomadate the same style one piece grips used on the model 999 sportsman. between 1925 and 1952 i have identified at least 7 variations in the model 922.

in 1953 the model 922 was redesigned and production continued until 1961. production was stopped in 1961 when the model 900 was introduced. in 1974 the model 900 was discontinued and production on the 922 was started again. it remained in production until 1979. this time discontinued in favor of the model 622 (6 shot version).

post world war II model 922's were considered the top of the solid frame revolver line and fit and finish show this (they also had a gold front sight). there is no serial number listing on most of H&R's pre world war II models and the serial numbers for the model 922 may have been a contination of the model 1904 large frame centerfire revolver (on which it is based). serial numbers in the 140k's were probably manufactuuured in the late 1920's.
b.goforth



Grumpy Gunny
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bigbunjii
Starting Member

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2008 :  07:01:45 AM  Show Profile
Thanks guys. Luckily I have until the 20th to register it.


Hrmm...the starter pistol frame sounds interesting.

Some guns.
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barto
Advanced Member

USA
4591 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2008 :  08:50:23 AM  Show Profile
Since I also have one of these I'd like to know if they are ALL pull-pin loading?
Mine has a 6" barrel & also no ser. no. (visible)
barto

Youth looks ahead, old age looks back and middle age looks tired.
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cce1302
Advanced Member

USA
8597 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2008 :  09:24:25 AM  Show Profile
You might check with Michigan State Police to make sure that pre-serial number handguns are even required to be registered or "safety inspected"?

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bigbunjii
Starting Member

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2008 :  09:34:33 AM  Show Profile
Yep, calling them this morning. My uncle's a FFL and he says they should just write "NO SERIAL NUMBER" on the form.


barto, nope, older models had break open actions (ala the old Webley's, Enfields, S&W Schofield/No 3's) and later ones had modern swing out cylinders.

Some guns.
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32 Magnum
Member

USA
818 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2008 :  1:31:17 PM  Show Profile
Until Bill gets here, let me add - the piece you have shown was made between 1952 and 1954 with the "STAG" grips and the hammer with the acorn shaped spur. The year 1952 was the year that H&R began transitioning their hand gun frames from the older "Rice" type with bird's head shaped grip to the new style. The first offerings made during this switch over were a four inch barrelled piece called the "Camper" and a two inch piece called the "Bantam" - both had a smaller, rounded frame and small nylon type grips. In 1953 a full size model 922 was offered with a 6" barrel and the "square butt" frame. The serial number on your piece SHOULD be found on the bottom of the grip strap - if it's not there it is the first H&R handgun from this period that I've seen that doesn't have one. It should have had a letter prefix of 'M', 'N' or 'P'. If there is no indication that the serial number was removed from the bottom of the grip strap - then it may be a "lunch box" gun.
ALL the 922s, from the inception of this model circa mid 1920's up to the end of production in 1986 were pull pin cylinder release.
All the H&R blank/starter guns that I have are also serialed.
Note: Historical data from Bill Goforth's research, hardware data from pieces in my collection.
Jim Hauff

Jim Hauff H&R Collector/Researcher
~ thanks to Bill Goforth, RIP my friend.
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b.goforth
Member

966 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2008 :  1:43:31 PM  Show Profile
this is a second model 922 manufactured between 1952 and 1961, 2 1/2 barrel introduced in 1952, 4 & 6 inch version of the second model were not introduced until 1953. the catalogs called the short barrel version the model 922 bantam weight. the serial number location of this model was on the bottom of the butt and would have a single letter code prefix. H&R alway applied a serial number to their handguns usually at final assembly. there is no reason this model 922 should not have a serial number other than someone removing it or it walked out of the factory before being numbered and this is highly unlikely.

check the bottom of the butt to see if there is evidence of someone removing the serial number. if the seller is a ffl dealer i would ask him what he used as a serial number and in lieu of anything else you have the number on the rear of the cylinder, which is a part of the original serial number.

FYI, the grips are TENITE plastic. after checking through my catalogs i have found that only the first year production (1952) used the old style (first model) cylinder retainer that is shown in the pictures posted on the auction for this revolver. so there is 99.9% chance this revolver was manufactured in 1952 and should have a M letter code prefix to what ever the serial number should have been. another thought is during this time each model was serial numbered in their own series with only the letter code changing each year, so 5 could be the actual serial number, but still the serial number "M 5" would have been stamped on the bottom of the butt.
bill

Edited by - b.goforth on 12/11/2008 1:46:44 PM
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32 Magnum
Member

USA
818 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2008 :  2:05:32 PM  Show Profile
Hi Bill!
I just checked my pieces with 'M', 'N' and 'P' prefixes (1952,'53 & '54 productions) and what Bill says about the cylinder pin retainer is absolutely correct. All of these years had the "Stag" colored Tenite grips, but only the 1952 Campers and Bantams had that retainer. The N & P versions do not have the "blade" locking system for the pin. So, I guess we can confirm manufacture in 1952. One other thing I noticed upon closer examination - on your piece as well as my '52 Bantam, in the barrel roll stamping: the "M" in model is lightly struck on the left side and the "W" in Worchester is also lightly struck. The two stampings appear identical. Lack of serial number is still confusing.
Unfortunately, I cannot, at this time post pictures for further clarification (computer problem that still needs to be resolved).
Jim Hauff

Jim Hauff H&R Collector/Researcher
~ thanks to Bill Goforth, RIP my friend.

Edited by - 32 Magnum on 12/11/2008 2:07:48 PM
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plinked
Junior Member

372 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2008 :  2:19:01 PM  Show Profile
And if all that wasn't enough info
Heres a ( crappy ) pic of ser # on my 1958,922
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