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 Iver Johnson manufacture dates/information
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BroGeo
Starting Member

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2009 :  1:00:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I currently have a couple of Iver Johnsons in my collection that I was interested in getting some more information on; they are:
Champion 12 Gauge Shotgun with patent dates 04-02-1901, 04-15-1902, patents pending along with "CHAMPION" on top of barrel; serial number 38852 under barrel with barrel hinge pin release on underside of frame on the right. It retains the original Champion hard rubber buttplate with the name in script.
Safety Automatic Revolver, .22/7 shot, serial number 44075 on underside of trigger guard; patent dates on butt & company name/address on barrel rib.
I can post some pictures, if that would be helpful...thanks!
George

BroGeo

Edited by - BroGeo on 01/13/2009 11:45:48 PM

b.goforth
Member

966 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2009 :  1:59:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
george,
the patent dates on your champion were used on several model manufactured between 19012 and 1909. so pictures would help in identifing the model.

the patent dates on the safety automatic revolvers were moved to the bottom of the butt in 1903. this was during the production of the second model so again pictures would be helpful.

INFORMATION NEEDED TO IDENTIFY
IVER JOHNSON’S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS SAFETY AUTOMATIC REVOLVERS

1. EXACT MARKINGS;
A. TOP OF BARREL
B. LEFT SIDE OF BARREL
C. BOTTOM OF BUTT STRAP

2. SERIAL NUMBER FOUND ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE GRIP STRAP UNDER THE GRIP PANEL (MAIN LOCATION SINCE 1896). THE SERIAL NUMBER FOUND ON THE BOTTOM OF THE TRIGGER GUARD WAS ONLY USED AFTER 1904 AND SINCE TRIGGER GUARDS ARE INTERCHANGABLE AND THIS LOCATION DOES NOT HAVE THE LETTER CODE IT CANNOT BE USED FOR PROPER ADINTIFICATION

3. BARREL LENGTH;
A. STANDARD BARREL LENGTH FOR LARGE FRAME IS 3 ¼ INCHES
B. STANDARD BARREL LENGTH FOR SMALL FRAME IS 3 INCHES

4. HAMMER SPRING
A. FIRST AND SECOND MODELS SINGLE FLAT LEAF
BLACK POWDER MODELS
B. THIRD MODEL CAPTIVE COIL
SMOKELESS POWDER

CALIBERS:
A. FIRST MODEL LARGE FRAME HAMMER OR HAMMERLESS 38 S&W (5)
FIRST MODEL SMALL FRAME HAMMER 22 RIMFIRE, 32 S&W (5)
FIRST MODEL SMALL FRAME HAMMERLESS 32 S&W (5)
B. SECOND MODEL LARGE FRAME HAMMER OR HAMMERLESS 38 S&W (5)
SECOND MODEL SMALL FRAME HAMMER 22 RIMFIRE (7), 32 S&W (5)
SECOND MODEL SMALL FRAME HAMMERLESS 32 S&W (5)
C. THIRD MODEL LARGE FRAME HAMMER OR HAMMERLESS
32 S&W LONG (6) AND 38 S&W (5)
THIRD MODEL SMALL FRAME HAMMER OR HAMMERLESS
22 RIMFIRE (7), 32 S&W (5)
bill
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BroGeo
Starting Member

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2009 :  11:05:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill:
Thanks for the information; I will take some measurements on the revolver & check out the serial number under the grip. In the meantime, here are some pics of both revolver & shotgun:
, , , , , , , , , ,

BroGeo

Edited by - BroGeo on 01/14/2009 09:30:01 AM
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b.goforth
Member

966 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2009 :  2:10:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the revolver is a small frame 22 rimfire (short or long only) second model safety automatic hammer revolver. the second model 22 rimfire hammer model was introduced in 1897 and remained in production until 1910. the three patent date markings on the botton of the butt were used between 1907 and 1911. there will most likely not be a letter code with the seial number on the left side of the grip panel as fewer than 100,000 of the second model 22 rimfires second models were manufactured. theree fore the only accurate dating i cna give on this revolver is 1907 to 1909.

the shotgun is a 'champion top snap model of 1901 improved' manufactured after 1905 and before 1908. this is the only dating i can do on the shotgun for now. in the 1905 catalog the top snap improved model was just called the "champion top snap" and this is when the hinge pin retainer was moved to the bottom of the reciever.

both of these firearms were manufactured before iver johnson made the switch to smokeless powder and are not considered safe with modern smokeless ammo(even the 22).

SECOND MODEL SAFETY AUTOMATIC HAMMER REVOLVER BLACK
(Black Powder Cartridges)------------1896-1908
LARGE FRAME AND SMALL FRAME VERSIONS USES HAMMER THE HAMMER ACTION: Double top post barrel latch, nickel finish standard, blue optional, hard rubber grip panels with Owls head at top. Hammer the Hammer action, two frame sizes, and three calibers. Standard barrel length: small frame 3 inches, large frame 3 ¼ inches; Calibers: small frame .22 rimfire 7 rounds cylinder capacity, .32 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity, large frame .38 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity; Weight: small frame with 3 inch barrel .22 rimfire 12 ounces, .32 centerfire 12 ¼ ounces, large frame with 3 ¼ inch barrel 17¼ ounces; Frame height: small frame 3 ¼ inches, large frame 3 7/8 inches; Frame length: small frame 4 3/26 inches, large frame 5 inches; Overall length: small frame with 3 inch barrel 6 3/8 inches, large frame with 3 ¼ inch barrel 7 3/8 inches. Only difference between the first and second model is the barrel latch. Main serial number location on left side of grip frame grips must be removed to see. The Second Model features a double top post barrel latch, flat leaf hammer spring and two cross pins in the lower frame.
VALUE: 100%=$275 60%=$135
For revolvers equipped with Bourne Knuckleduster add 100%

IVER JOHNSON TOP SNAP IMPROVED MODEL 1901--------------------1901-1904
Single barrel hammer top lever operated break open mechanism; 12 and 16 gauges; barrels of steel choked bored in 28, 30, 32, and 34 inches in length; automatic ejectors; American Black Walnut butt stock and fore-end; casehardened frame and browned barrel; pistol grip butt stock; hard rubber butt plate and pistol grip cap; weight with 30 inch barrel 6 pounds; overall length with 30 inch barrel 45 inches.
VALUE: RARE 100%=$300 60%=$135

IVER JOHNSON TOP SNAP IMPROVED MODEL 1901 JUNIOR MODEL------1901-1904
Single barrel; top lever operated break open action; center mounted rebounding hammer; shortened butt stock; American Black walnut butt stock and fore-end; 12 and 16 gauge; 26 and 28 inch barrels; casehardened receiver and browned barrel; weight with 26 inch
barrel 5 ½ lbs, with 28 inch barrel 6 lbs.; overall length about 40 inches.
VALUE: RARE 100%=$300 60%=$135

IVER JOHNSON CHAMPION TOP SNAP--------------------------1905-1908
A name change for the Iver Johnson Top Snap Single barrel hammer with top lever operating mechanism; 12 and 16 gauge; steel barrels in lengths 28, 30 and 32 inches full chocked; automatic ejectors; rebounding hammer; American Black Walnut butt stock and fore-end; casehardened frame and browned barrel; hard rubber butt plate and pistol grip cap; weight 6 pounds; overall length with 30 inch barrel 45 inches.
VALUE: RARE 100%=$300 60%=$135

bill

Edited by - b.goforth on 01/13/2009 2:15:04 PM
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BroGeo
Starting Member

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2009 :  11:33:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill:
Thanks so much for the information! Here are the exact marks & measurements, just for the record:
Second Model Safety Automatic Hammer Revolver (Small Frame)
3 inch Barrel marked:
X IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS X
<- FITCHBURG MASS U.S.A. ->
Serial Number 44075 on bottom of trigger guard & on left side of grip strap under grip - no letter, as suspected. Single leaf trigger spring; marked on butt as follows:
PAT JUNE 16, 96 AUG 20 ?
SEPT 16, O4 PATS PENDING
Champion Top-Snap Model of 1901 Shotgun
30 inch Barrel marked:
CHAMPION
PATD APR 2,'01 APR 15,'02 PATS PENDING
Serial Number 38852 under barrel latch. Barrel hinge pin release under right side of receiver; marked on left side of receiver as follows:
IVER JOHNSON'S
ARMS & CYCLE WORKS
FITCHBURG MASS U.S.A.
For those interested, I acquired the the 22 revolver through a trade with an Iver Johnson 32 revolver, for which I originally paid $75.00. It appears to have never been fired. The shotgun was purchased at a pawn shop for $40.00.
Thanks again!

BroGeo

Edited by - BroGeo on 01/13/2009 11:44:24 PM
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