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 shipping black powder pistol
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geeguy
Member

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  08:43:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm sure this has been answered in the past, but I could not locate it.

When shipping an 1858 replica black powder pistol to a buyer, do I need to require an FFL, or just a statement that the person is over 21 years old?

In reading many of the ads they indicate direct shipment, but in reading the ATF web sight it seems to "imply" that it needs to go through an FFL for out of state shipment.

Any help would be appreciated.

jonk
Advanced Member

9525 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  08:53:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is my understanding that so far as federal regs go, no FFL is needed. I've had black powder guns shipped to me.

However some localities have local rules that are more stringent and if the buyer lives there, an FFL would be required.

"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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He Dog
Advanced Member

Australia
36644 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  09:04:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cabela's ships blackpowder guns regularly, and sells them over the counter with no 4473 check. As Jonk noted, there are some localities that have more stringent regulations, and foreign countries like Illinois, New York, California and Maryland are likely for more repressive regulations.

The average response time for a 911 call is 23 minutes; the response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.
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Robin
Senior Member

1177 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  09:42:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At least in Florida there is no problem. I bought a 1858 Remington replica from Bass Pro and there was no problem and no call to check for a firearm sale.

Worry is the interest humans pay on the debt of miscalculation.<BR>
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Spider7115
Moderator

USA
24083 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  10:10:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by He Dog

Cabela's ships blackpowder guns regularly, and sells them over the counter with no 4473 check. As Jonk noted, there are some localities that have more stringent regulations, and foreign countries like Illinois, New York, California and Maryland are likely for more repressive regulations.



You can ship to anywhere in NY State except for NY City, which requires an FFL. New Jersey also requires an FFL for blackpowder firearms.

-"SPIDER"

ALLAH KA-BAR!


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Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

3404 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  10:14:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You may also bump up against a shipping clerk who applies or invents restrictive company policy. You may have to read their own tariff book to her supervisor or postmaster.
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Spider7115
Moderator

USA
24083 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  10:35:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk Carse

You may also bump up against a shipping clerk who applies or invents restrictive company policy. You may have to read their own tariff book to her supervisor or postmaster.



According to US Postal regulations, this is not a firearm so you don't have to tell them what's in the package.

-"SPIDER"

ALLAH KA-BAR!


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11b6r
Advanced Member

USA
12864 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  2:33:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Spider is absolutely correct. If you go to the ATF regulations, under defintions, ANTIQUE- it is not a firearm. A ball and cap revolver- even made last week- is an antique due to the ball and loose powder configuration. As an antique, it can be mailed in the US Mail without a FFL, and does not need to go TO a FFL, NYC and NJ excepted. Can also be shipped by UPS or FedEx without doing the next day air thing. Cut & paste:
(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

And what is an antique?
(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof. END C&P



"Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine."
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coffinhandler
New Member

USA
75 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2009 :  4:54:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had one shipped from Cabelas to Michigan, no problem, no FFL. That was many years ago. I did get a purchase permit though. I did register this gun when I got it, at the Sheriff dept. I love the 1858, but it is hard on the hands to load.
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blackpowdermax
Junior Member

167 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2009 :  01:19:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
California has no "repressive regulations" concerning antique or black powder firearms, in fact, they simply defer to the Federal regulations, period. It would seem that there are more "repressive regulations" concerning California on the "Ask the Experts" forum than our anti-gun state legislators could possibly dream up. Doesn't speak well of the information (or should I say mis-information) provided here does it?

max

load the old ones with the old tools.....
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