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 Remington 1917 Norma Mag 308
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xsvfrce
Starting Member

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2009 :  8:33:38 PM  Show Profile
I am considering purchasing a rifle but the seller doesn't seem to know much about it. The barrel is marked Remington Model of 1917 just just in front of the chamber and on the barrel it's marked 308 Norma Mag. I tried to look it up a few different places but everything I've found said that rifle should be a 30-06. What is it and what would it be worth in fairly good condition?

nononsense
Moderator

8881 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2009 :  9:54:19 PM  Show Profile
xsvfrce,

Welcome to the GunBroker Forums!

You have:

The United States Rifle, Caliber .30, M1917, developed at the Royal Small Arms Factory in Middlesex.

When the United States prepared for WWI, there were shortages of the M1903 Springfield. The '03 manufacturing was not able to keep up with U.S. demand for armaments.

The U.S. companies of Remington, Winchester, and the Remington-Eddystone Arsenal, had just completed contracts for m1914 Enfields, for England and were able to retool the existing manufacturing facilities to produce the m1914 in 30-06. Thus the m1917 was born.

It is not uncommon for gunsmiths and cobblers alike to use the M1917 for magnum chambered rifles due to the longer action and the stout design. Many were used to hold the .300 H&H Magnum at one time. The .308 Norma Magnum is an easy conversion because it only involves cutting a new chamber with the Norma reamer and maybe setting the barrel back a thread. The .308 Norma Magnum was actually created 3 years before the .300 Win. Mag. but even with gunsmithing support from Norma in the way of reamers, prints and brass, the Win. Mag. eventually pushed it out of contention. The performance of the two cartridges is very similar.

You need to post pictures in order that we can assess the condition and amount of changes made to this rifle before any idea of value can be added.

Best.






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xsvfrce
Starting Member

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2009 :  11:19:51 PM  Show Profile
Pictures as requested.









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nononsense
Moderator

8881 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2009 :  07:26:39 AM  Show Profile
xsvfrce,

I checked the Auction side just for a little update as to what these might be selling for and there are 4 listed but none have bids yet. Two appear to be original and the other two are sporterized. The original condition rifles can sell for some higher dollars while the sporterized rifles will run the gamut from inexpensive ($275.00) to expensive ($1100.00) if the work has been done by a well-known gunsmith to the very best quality. Yours seems to be at the low end with a nice generic period ('60s) stock with a few changes such as the 'ears' being ground off and the rechambering of course. I think the barrel band swivel is a nice touch as opposed to just screwing a swivel into the forearm. The scope is worth very little if anything. It is serviceable for sure in that a buyer could do a safety check and headspace check then go hunt after sighting in.

I will say that the cartridge is a very good choice for any deer, elk or moose hunt you choose to try. Being similar to the .300 WM, there is a great selection of bullets and reloading data is available.

Now let the guys who buy and sell on the internet give their opinion.

Best.






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xsvfrce
Starting Member

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2009 :  09:17:51 AM  Show Profile
Thanks for the info.

Edited by - xsvfrce on 06/01/2009 09:18:55 AM
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Mobuck
Advanced Member

7052 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2009 :  12:01:47 PM  Show Profile
At one time, I had 2 of these rifles. Does the barrel have a left hand twist or right hand? One of my rifles had a rechambered military barrel and showed the typical wear(i.e. it was not very accurate) the other had a newer barrel and was quite accurate. I have to advise you that some of the 1914/1917 enfield actions may be overhard and brittle. I had the less accurate of my rifles rebarrelled to 257 Wby and it blew up almost killing me. After that experience, I can't recommend any arm based on this action unless it has in some way been metalurgically tested.

Mobuck<BR>
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nononsense
Moderator

8881 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2009 :  8:33:21 PM  Show Profile
Mobuck,

The problem with the Eddystone Enfields has nothing to do with the heat treating. That problem was with some of the various 1903 Springfields.

The problem with the Eddystone Enfields, occurred when the M1917s (not the p14) were re-arsenalized for WWII. The barrels were put on way too tight with a hydraulic machine and this lead to the problems of receivers cracking.

Your gunsmith should have been aware or been made aware of this problem so he could properly remove the barrel and re-barrel properly for safety.

Best.

ADDED:

I forgot to say that these actions can be Magnafluxed to determine if there is a problem ahead of time. There was a hot rod shop not too far from me that would perform this service for not too much money, which was both reasonable and convenient.

Best.







Edited by - nononsense on 06/02/2009 07:15:23 AM
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Tailgunner1954
Advanced Member

7136 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2009 :  07:42:03 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by nononsense

Mobuck,

The problem with the Eddystone Enfields has nothing to do with the heat treating. That problem was with some of the various 1903 Springfields.

The problem with the Eddystone Enfields, occurred when the M1917s (not the p14) were re-arsenalized for WWII. The barrels were put on way too tight with a hydraulic machine and this lead to the problems of receivers cracking.

Your gunsmith should have been aware or been made aware of this problem so he could properly remove the barrel and re-barrel properly for safety.

Best.

ADDED:

I forgot to say that these actions can be Magnafluxed to determine if there is a problem ahead of time. There was a hot rod shop not too far from me that would perform this service for not too much money, which was both reasonable and convenient.

Best.





I've heard that the new barrel threads were slightly oversize (instead of simply overtightened), which put a strain on the receiver ring that over the course of the years could crack the ring (esp if they were mechanicly installed).

Another way to check for cracks comes in a couple of spray cans, one is a oily dye (normaly red) and the other is a Talc base spray. Spray on #1 and let sit for 30-60 minutes and wipe off the surface excess. Spray on #2 let it sit for 5 minutes and look for "red lines". Here at work we use the Magnaflux brand "Spot-Check" spray products (cleaner/remover, penetrant, developer) available from Graingers (a "true" Magnaflux machine magnatizes the part and uses iron filings to locate the cracks). We use the dye system at work to check incoming customers dies for stress cracks before processing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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Mobuck
Advanced Member

7052 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2009 :  11:13:59 AM  Show Profile
I have seen several articles reporting that some American Enfield (nothing to do with the early Springfield 03) were hardened to the point of being brittle. The problem with my rifle was probably improper annealing for the scopebase drill and tap procedure. When A-Square used these actions they were Magnafluxed to check for cracks. This does not address the problem of less than perfect gunsmithing at some date in the actions life.

Mobuck<BR>
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nononsense
Moderator

8881 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2009 :  7:09:24 PM  Show Profile
Mobuck,

My comments are not meant to be disparaging in any way, merely informative.

The articles mentioning the 'hardened to the point of being brittle' are incorrect. The same applies to the idea of oversize threads. This has been a continuing problem with facts for a long time. The more times that incorrect information is repeated, the closer it gets to becoming the truth by simple repetition and by default. Excellent examples are used by the gun-grabbing liberals on a daily basis.

But to that same extent, everyone is still free to adopt the opinion that they are most comfortable with.

Best.






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I.Shute
Member

862 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2009 :  7:55:29 PM  Show Profile
mobuck:
Where did the failure occur when your 257 Wby blew up? What part failed? Bolt lugs, threaded front of the action?
I have M-1917s in .510 Wells - compared to .500 A-Square and never had a failure yet.
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