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 class 3 FFL cost
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5mmgunguy
Advanced Member

3866 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2009 :  10:47:29 AM  Show Profile
What does a class 3 FFL cost?

11b6r
Advanced Member

USA
13192 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2009 :  11:21:10 AM  Show Profile
Are you interested in becoming a holder of a Class III FFL- dealer in machineguns? Or do you want to PURCHASE a class III firearm from a dealer? Lot of difference.

To purchase a Class III firearm requires payment of dealer fees (varies by dealer) and the payment of a transfer tax to the ATF (one time tax) The tax is $200 for a full auto, destructive device, short barreled shotgun, short barreled rifle, etc. For a group known as AOWs (Any Other Weapon) such as a shot pistol, cane gun, etc, the fee is $5.00

MAKING a class III weapon is another matter. Go to the sticky at the top of the forum by NWCID, and read the very good info he posted there.

"Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine."
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15895 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2009 :  11:37:29 AM  Show Profile
As a resident of cali, it's very difficult, virtually impossible, to own a selective fire Class 3 firearm. If you want to be a Class 3 dealer, contact Mark Christian he is a Class 3 in cali. I'm sure he would be more then willing to give you a heads-up on the requirements.

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5mmgunguy
Advanced Member

3866 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2009 :  12:35:46 PM  Show Profile
How would I contact him...do you have a phone number?
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15895 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2009 :  12:43:52 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by 5mmgunguy

How would I contact him...do you have a phone number?




He is a member here, but doesn't have either a e mail address or phone number listed. Believe he is located in Southern California, LA area?

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Nwcid
Advanced Member

USA
9219 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2009 :  12:54:09 PM  Show Profile
Well if you are looking for a Class 3 "FFL" for actually dealing in NFA you need a few things.

First you need to have a 01 FFL (normal dealer FFL). As an 01 FFL you can buy and sell NFA stuff BUT you will have to pay the tax on EACH item at $200/item.

If you have an 01 FFL and dont want to pay a tax on each item then you apply for an SOT (Special Occupation Tax) which is what allows and 01 FFL to deal in NFA tax free. From the link below,

5.1.2 License fees.72
5.1.2.1 Manufacturers. If the applicant is a manufacturer of destructive devices, the fee is
$1,000 per year. For firearms other than destructive devices, the fee is $50 per year.
5.1.2.2 Importers. If the applicant is an importer of destructive devices, the fee is $1,000 per
year. For firearms other than destructive devices, the fee is $50 per year.
5.1.2.3 Dealers. If the applicant is a dealer in destructive devices, the fee is $1,000 per year.
For firearms other than destructive devices, the fee is $200 for 3 years, except that the fee for
renewal is $90 for 3 years.


As it was said I have all this info in the NFA FAQ. From the second line in that here is the ATF handbook that spells this all out, http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/index.htm


Just a thought Why would you ask members of a gun forum if you should buy a gun. Kinda like an alcoholic going into a bar to hoping to have someone tell him not to drink.

Anyone who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither!!!

Gun control defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft, and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm.

What are MG's for?
Because if you are going to cry out, "Say Hello To My Little Fren" and you are holding a bolt action .22, you have no style.

John

Edited by - Nwcid on 09/25/2009 12:55:47 PM
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mark christian
Administrator

Panama
19330 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2009 :  7:04:38 PM  Show Profile
Nwcid laid out the costs for getting the Federal part of the equation wrapped up ($300 for a new FFL and $500 for an SOT). If you want to do this here in CA you'll need the standard CA dealers license (which cost about $300 for the original application process), a dangerous weapons permit ($500 per year) along with a permit to sell machine guns and this permit currently costs $1500 per year. You'd be looking at a total of around three grand just to get your foot in the door. CA does not allow dealers to possess transferable machine guns (although you can take one in trade if you sell/remove it from the state within 90 days) so all of your MGs here must be restricted dealer sales samples, none of which can ever be retained after you give up your SOT status.

There are numerous other little trips and traps along the way (all of which cost money) so if you currently have an FFL and want to get into the LE end of the business by selling MGs then I can give you more details. If you are interested in this from a hobbyist point of view or as a way to get around heavy restrictions on machine gun ownership then I advise you to forget all about it; the BATFE and state agencies are already wise to such goings on and unless you can actually demonstrate that you can do some business (and actually manage to do a legitimate number of MG sales each year) you won't make the cut.

Edited by - mark christian on 09/25/2009 7:17:22 PM
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popndrop
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2009 :  08:22:55 AM  Show Profile
Mark,
I'm very seriously interested in operating a Class 3 / 2 / 7 Mfg - would you be willing to contact me pertaining to this. I'm in Orange Co. My partner is a world class industrial design engineer and we've got access to top of the line Machine shop - just need to know how to get the ball rolling. There is a Class 3 shop for sale in GA - would you advise for or against my buying that as a starting point?

Thanks,

Mike - Email in profile info

Edited by - popndrop on 10/12/2009 08:32:36 AM
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mark christian
Administrator

Panama
19330 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2009 :  10:44:50 AM  Show Profile
If you can afford to buy an existing business then I'd do that because this clearly shows the BATFE that you are serious about your plans and saves you a lot of time getting things up and running. If you start from the ground up you'll have to have several meetings outlining your plans, what you intend to do, the kind of operation you want to run, the equipment you plan to get, customers that you plan to service, ect. An existing business means that all of these questions are pretty much answered because the BATFE can just look on the shop floor and see what you are capable of doing. This is much better than having nothing a Dremel Tool sitting on a card table inside an empty shed or pole barn and then telling the BATFE all about the CNC machines and vertical mills and lathes that you plan to get "very soon".
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popndrop
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2009 :  1:24:57 PM  Show Profile
Thanks Mark - I think there was one issue that I didn't clarify - that is that the shop is in GA, and I'm in CA, so I'd be moving the shop here to where I am. The Machine shop is also in CA - which leads to another question - how do they view sub-ing out parts for Mfg? If I design a gun, can I have the parts made for me, and I assemble them? I assume this is something they are comfortable with?

Thanks again

Mike
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mark christian
Administrator

Panama
19330 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2009 :  1:41:08 PM  Show Profile
You can contact the CA DOJ and see what they think of that plan but frankly I don't think it is possible and that you'd be much better off just moving to GA. Nearly every (or every) Class II manufacturer based in this state has packed up and moved to NV, UT or AZ because the regulations on building firearms here are tough enough, building machine guns is going to be brutal.

Edited by - mark christian on 10/12/2009 1:42:08 PM
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popndrop
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2009 :  1:52:25 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by mark christian

You can contact the CA DOJ and see what they think of that plan but frankly I don't think it is possible and that you'd be much better off just moving to GA. Nearly every (or every) Class II manufacturer based in this state has packed up and moved to NV, UT or AZ because the regulations on building firearms here are tough enough, building machine guns is going to be brutal.



That was what I was afraid of. I really don't want to move from here, but maybe I can set it up in NV and commute - that wouldn't be too bad. What if I only MADE Semi-Auto firearms, do you think they would be more open to that?

As far as Mfg goes, if I'm making lowers or the registered components of a gun, can I use an outside vendor to make them for me?
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