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nunn
Administrator
USA
21728 Posts |
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nord
Advanced Member
USA
2922 Posts |
 Posted - 11/05/2009 : 12:41:08 PM
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All are trade guns. The first with back-action locks is almost certainly an antique, but it can't be proved.
The others?
If Damascus tubes then probably antique, but again unprovable as records do not exist.
So the answer is no. C&R's, but not antiques under our laws. |
Nord |
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11b6r
Advanced Member
USA
7785 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 1:47:54 PM
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W. Richards is an effort to cash in on the Westley Richards name. These are listed in the Sears catalog at the turn of the century (about 1906 IIRC) so, no, they were still being made after the date.
Do not think any of the 3 can be proven to be antiques- so they would go as C&R as you listed. Without serial numbers, if the maker was still making shotguns after the date, I don't think you can prove your were BEFORE the date. |
"Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine." |
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rhmc24
Senior Member
1549 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 4:23:03 PM
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| As others say, no proof of when. The Richards is very likely from earliest breech loading period from type 'bottom swing' breech latch. The middle one is probably early 1900s. The Royal Gun Works is almost identical to my grandfather's that he bought used in 1886. Actually a very good quality gun that I shot hundreds of times in the 1930s before it became dangerous to shoot smokeless in damascus barrels. Still in the family. |
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nunn
Administrator
USA
21728 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 10:52:49 PM
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| I had a feller trying HARD to get me to sell him the W. Richards direct, claiming it is an antique. I asked him for proof, and all he had was a patent date on another W. Richards shotgun. |
FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer. Bitter, Angry, Biased, and Unfair Administrator of The Discussion Forums At Gunbroker.
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Pray for President Obama. Psalm 109:8.
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great
pleasure." Clarence Darrow
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slumlord44
Member
USA
864 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 11:47:06 PM
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| You could do it, but if questions come up, you had best be prepared to prove date of manufacture is before, I believe it is 1895. I have a C&R and have the same problem of being able to prove the gun is over 50 years old. As you are an FFL, I would never do it unless I could prove it. |
slumlord44 |
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v35
Advanced Member
USA
9430 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2009 : 3:13:57 PM
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The W.Richards is a Belgian gun and not a Westley Richards at all.
All the guns appear to have been fired with smokeless as can be evidenced by the gap between barrel and breech from stretching.
The last one has a homemade trigger guard and a split barrel that had once been nicely repaired with solder and reseparated.
These are decorator guns that should be made inoperable.
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Edited by - v35 on 11/06/2009 9:28:26 PM |
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nunn
Administrator
USA
21728 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 10:12:04 AM
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I never called the W. Richards a Westley Richards, and am aware of the subterfuge. I also know full well that the three guns are decorators, not to be fired, and have advertised them as such.
As little as I have in them, if they don't sell, they may wind up on the wall here. |
FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer. Bitter, Angry, Biased, and Unfair Administrator of The Discussion Forums At Gunbroker.
Visit www.gunbroker.com the best gun auction site on the Net! Email gpd035@sbcglobal.net
Check on Dawnie's mom here: http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/bobbiepennick
Pray for President Obama. Psalm 109:8.
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great
pleasure." Clarence Darrow
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He Dog
Advanced Member
26746 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 11:50:47 AM
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| So we can conclude you are the only antique in the bunch Nunn? |
"Being a politician should be a capital offense" - He Dog |
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mm8nambu
Advanced Member
2676 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 11:56:32 AM
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I like the "Buffalo nickel" one! ..Quite a piece of decor.
nambu |
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Barzillia
Advanced Member
7156 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 11:12:12 AM
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None of them have verifiable factory records, but the Richards underlever is a design not continued past the 1880's, as far as I know.
The damascus barrels are most certainly not nitro prooved, so limited to BP, another factor for an academic discussion.
For BATFE rules ???
But that is only my opinion.
The other two are designs commonly encountered up until 1910, at least.
Not worth an argument with whoever would wish to challenge an antique determination, for a $30 FFL transfer fee that someone will charge. |
"Most people fancy themselves innocent of those crimes of which they cannot be convicted." Seneca
"Hope has two children: anger, and courage." Augustine, Confessions |
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Experts: Are Any Of These Shotguns Antiques?
Topic Locked
