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 Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting
 FMJ .451 Black Powder Recommended Loads? + REVIEW
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TheGunDude
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2010 :  9:45:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just got one of these FMJ .451 Single Barrel Black Power Derringer New Condition. Wondering if anyone has one and knows what they shoot well.

http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=152935799

Patched .433 or .440 balls?

.450 Conical?

Lightly Lubed .454 round balls?

Lightly lubed .451 round balls?

And what powder Charge of FFFg?

It has a rifled barrel, can it shoot shot loads somehow?

Does anyone know the Twist on these?

what about sabots with modern hollow point bullets?

I also have a .44 1851 Navy Colt, how can i shoot shot loads out of it?


Any info will help a lot,
Thanks TGD

TheGunDude

Edited by - TheGunDude on 01/09/2010 09:39:39 AM

allen griggs
Advanced Member

USA
27120 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  06:55:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That link doesn't work.
You are going to want to try around 15 grains of fffg powder.
Also you should try the patched round ball, I don't know what diameter.
You can shoot shot. Put a wad of crumpled newspaper over the powder, add the shot, and put in another wad to hold the shot in place.

The shot will probably grip the rifling and give you a "donut" pattern.
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TheGunDude
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  5:35:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hey thanks for the info

I fixed the link,, I will get it on Friday and post up my test of it at the range. Give a full report all everything,, what size are you not familiar with? .433? it is a mold from LEE that my dad had for his 45cal rifle that would shoot a .015 patch and a .433 ball. With the .451 derringer the patched .433 ball at .448 should fit well enough, Well I get it Friday and I will keep it updated. What size shot, was thinking 7 shot, at a little less weight of the round ball.

And I will be using Pyrodex FFFg that is why I said 20grs. 15grs for real BP... HEY does anyone know where to find REAL BP IN RENO,NV???

TGD.

TheGunDude

Edited by - TheGunDude on 01/06/2010 5:50:22 PM
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TheGunDude
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  5:52:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What about the sabots using modern 9mm jacketed hollow points???
how can I measure the twist on this derringer? and what is the requirement for using Sobots?

What about the .450 conical?

Sorry for all the Qs, I will be testing it soon and I want to know what to take with me.

TGD

TheGunDude

Edited by - TheGunDude on 01/06/2010 6:09:51 PM
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allen griggs
Advanced Member

USA
27120 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  6:18:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, the link works now.
That is one unusual piece, a long-barreled derringer that uses 209 primers. Never heard of a gun quite like that.

When BP or subs are referred to, it is always in measure by volume, not by weight.
So, 15 gr of BP = 15 gr of Pyrodex.
You know, with that long barrel you could probably burn more powder, you might take it up to 20 grains.

When I say I don't know what size ball, it is just that different guns take different sized balls. Since you have the .433 mould, of course you ought to try that first, you probably can make it work depending on the thickness of the patch you use.

I'm sure sabots would work if you get them the right size.
You can go to mmp and see what they have.

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TheGunDude
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  10:22:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ya thanks for the info, actually Im a seasoned old traditional black powder owner. I have 3 CVA .50 cal rifles one is flintlock, and one 1851 Navy Colt, I just never bothered until now to get modern ammo for any black powder. All i have ever used is homemade Maxi Balls and Round Balls, so that is why i have so many questions.

And ya this pistol is hard to find any info and why I would like to know as much as I can before I take it to the range. I have only ever used Real BP and pyrodex,,and ya i know about the volume ratio, but personally bro to match REAL BP you have to use a bit more of Pyrodex. 80grs of BP in my rifles I use 90grs by volume of Pyrodex to get the same results and ya I use a CHRONO. If I use the same volume I always get less velocity with the Pyrodex. Maybe its my rifles I dont know just my experience with Pyrodex. Same results with my 1851 Navy Colt, works 10x better with REAL BP, just more fouling

Ya there is ZERO shooting test I can find on the BP version of this Derringer. I found this Derringer after shooting THE HAND CANNONS! My friend had one but no info on them,45LC/.410 shotgun Derringer made by the same company,as the Cobray, Leinad, FMJ all the same, and that gun is much smaller then this one, If you can shoot the .410 without saying S**T MY HAND! I will be surprized! But I love BlackPowder and wanted it for the reason that I have never seen the 209 in a derringer, that makes it that much more unique and reliable if I did ever have to use it. I will put it in my case on my ATV, so I always have something.

Sorry for the ramble, TGD.

TheGunDude

Edited by - TheGunDude on 01/06/2010 10:42:52 PM
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TheGunDude
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2010 :  12:33:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
FYI! that auction is a new one for anyone that may want one!

TheGunDude

Edited by - TheGunDude on 01/07/2010 12:41:28 AM
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TheGunDude
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2010 :  09:34:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I GOT IT!!

1st impressions:

The manufacture of the higher quality steel of ALL parts is very surprising for the price. Good solid strong steel, all parts are steel but the grip covers.

I little cleaning was needed, was covered in good protection oil. Took about 10 mins. Cleaned up well and easy when you take the breech plug out, which is easy with a socket wrench.

The Safety is a bit annoying, you have to pull the hammer just a little bit back to move the saftey, it requires you to put it in Safe before you can open the barrel to prime, that is not a problem BUT the way that had it setup,, the Safety pin must be FLUSH with the frame OR you cant open it. This is a 2 handed opteration and really slows down reloading time, but with practice should be ok.

Still very impressed with the quality of the steel, very good stuff.
I will be taking it out to the range tomorrow. I went ahead and got what the manufaturer recommends. I will be shooting .451 balls with 20-25 grs of FFFg Pyrodex. With the 209 Shotshell primer, it makes this BP Derringer extremely reliable compared to Percusion Caps, that always seem to fail on a regular basis. The 209 will also increase velocity due to a faster burn of the BP.

Overall first impressions are good, we will see how it does at the range.

TheGunDude

Edited by - TheGunDude on 01/09/2010 09:38:44 AM
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