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 Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Alloy vs. Chrome Lined?
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milsurplus
Junior Member

204 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2010 :  11:10:27 AM  Show Profile
What is the difference between chrome moly vanadium steel alloy barrel and a chrome lined barrel?, as there seems to be alot of AK47's, AKM's and AR15 rifles with both type barrels?
Do they both resist rust and corrosion about the same and is chrome lining over rated since there are a number of chrome moly vanadium steel alloy barrels available and supposedly cheaper?
Thanks.

"What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss?"......
88

Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

3501 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2010 :  11:47:48 AM  Show Profile
Chrome lining resists corrosion and erosion better than naked chrome moly steel. It is an advantage in a military weapon to be treated roughly. A target shooter will not want chrome lining because it is an additional manufacturing step that can get bore dimensions off and hurt fine accuracy. Nothing to notice on an AK or AR.
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milsurplus
Junior Member

204 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2010 :  12:00:47 PM  Show Profile
So then I shouldn't let it dissuade me from purchasing a non-chrome lined rifle then?
So I wont notice a difference in durability, accuracy or difficulty in cleaning the bore and such?
It seems that most firearms military and or civilian are not chrome lined, is that correct?

"What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss?"......
88
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givette
Advanced Member

11186 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2010 :  1:02:11 PM  Show Profile
Originally posted by milsurplus

So then I shouldn't let it dissuade me from purchasing a non-chrome lined rifle then?
No barrel type (by materials used) should dissuade you from purchase
So I wont notice a difference in durability, accuracy or difficulty in cleaning the bore and such?
None. Provided 'sensible' cleaning procedure is followed. I run a soaked cleaning patch down the bore prior to the trip home, and start the comprehensive cleaning process within the same day as the shoot
It seems that most firearms military and or civilian are not chrome lined, is that correct?
Correct

Best, Joe

Note: The chrome lined lack of accuracy tales were of those early bores lined without regard to chrome thickness, and the plating was not uniform. Both of these items have been addressed, and corrected..but the original 'guilt by association' lingers to this day.


EDIT-To include your follow-up post:
So sounds like the difference between chrome lined barrels and non-chrome lined Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Alloy barrels then is really insignificant whether it be for military or civilian use?
My answer further up this string was to a question involving both military and civilian use of chrome lining. I had to answer that most barrels are not chrome plated, because I was including both civ/military in my answer.

Chrome lined barrels have a definate advantage to the military. The end-user is a big questionmark to the military supplier. No way to tell (at the factory) just what abuse the bore will be subjected to, ergo chrome lined chambers/bores..and the reasons [for hard-chrome plating] have been posted within this string.
Best again, Joe






Edited by - givette on 06/16/2010 3:18:51 PM
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Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

3501 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2010 :  1:18:38 PM  Show Profile
Depends on your application.
If I were going to put a lot of hardball through a gun at casual and easy targets, then I would want a chrome lined barrel, just like the Army.
If I were going to shoot high quality ammunition at small distant targets, I would want a chrome moly or better, stainless barrel.
If I were going to shoot occasionally, worry about the price of ammo, and consider myself prepared for SHTF, I would get what was the least expensive.
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tsr1965
Advanced Member

USA
7120 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2010 :  1:35:56 PM  Show Profile
Milsurplus,

There is a difference between chrome moly, and chrome lined. Actually the chrome lined, are the chrome moly steel barrels with about the first 8 inches of barrel by the chamber, chrome plated. It is done to provide endurance under high volume, and hi rates of fire.

It is not about corrosion resistance from oxidation, but errosion resistance to high pressures, and hot plasma.

Best
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beantownshootah
Advanced Member

USA
13150 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2010 :  1:39:34 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk Carse

Chrome lining resists corrosion and erosion better than naked chrome moly steel. It is an advantage in a military weapon to be treated roughly. A target shooter will not want chrome lining because it is an additional manufacturing step that can get bore dimensions off and hurt fine accuracy. Nothing to notice on an AK or AR.



+1.

In general, chrome-lining helps shrug off dirt and reduce both corrosion and wear and tear.

Chrome-lined barrels are particularly desirable if you may be firing corrosive military-type ammo through your gun, if you need maximum barrel longevity (ie you may need to fire a LOT of rounds through your barrel), or if you may neglect your barrel with inconsistent cleaning.

In other words, these are good for military-type applications. Yes, its true that globally speaking most military guns don't have chrome plated bores, but that doesn't mean its not a potentially useful feature if you can get/afford it!

While individual chrome-lined barrels can be accurate, if you want the most accurate barrel possible, because of plating tolerances, non-plated all stainless steel barrels are usually preferred by match type shooters.

Probably 99% of shooters, though (including myself), will never notice ANY intrinsic accuracy difference between similar chrome and non-chrome plated barrels.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that most shooters probably wouldn't notice any practical difference whatever between the two at all. Which is not to say that there aren't differences, only that unless you are stressing the gun with thousands of fired rounds, neglecting it, or striving for absolutely maximum long-range accuracy, the differences are likely irrelevant.

EDIT: Responding to below.
quote:

So sounds like the difference between chrome lined barrels and non-chrome lined Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Alloy barrels then is really insignificant whether it be for military or civilian use?

No.

I'm not saying the differences aren't significant, I'm saying that the average schmoe who doesn't do more than shoot their gun at the range infrequently for fun probably isn't ever going to take advantage of them.

If you're not a match-grade shooter shooting match ammo and TRYING to get maximum accuracy out of your gun, you're probably not going to even notice any potential difference in accuracy between an average barrel and a good match grade one. For the average schmoe shooting factory ammo from a mass produced gun off the rack, a better TRIGGER will probably improve accuracy more than a better barrel.

If you are out fighting in a jungle somewhere, where its really humid, and/or where you may need to fire thousands of rounds of ammo (particularly at full auto rate of fire),and where spare parts may not be readily available or where armorers aren't readily available to help maintain your gun, then having a barrel that is more corrosion resistant and especially longer lasting can be a real advantage.

But for the average casual civilian user, who is NOT firing corrosive ammo through their gun, who is NOT likely to EVER fire tens of thousands of rounds through their gun (let alone at full auto cyclic rate of fire) and who is NOT a serious match-type accuracy buff looking to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of their gun to shoot at several hundred yard distances, any differences between the barrel types aren't going to matter.

This is my PERSONAL take on the question:

For a gun that I would be using for "Survival" (you can read that as combat, STHF, defense, whatever), all else being equal, I'd go for a chrome lined barrel. . .*IF* one were readily available for the gun I otherwise liked and if I could afford it.

For any gun where accuracy was of topmost importance (ie a match or maybe varmint gun), I'd go for for the best match-grade bull barrel available. For whatever reasons, generally these match barrels are made of stainless steel that is NOT chrome-lined.

For just a casual "shooter". . .eh. . .who cares.

In other words, for a gun that is realistically probably only going to be shot at the range, but MIGHT be used for hunting, defense/combat, or survival, but realistically probably isn't ever going to be. . .I wouldn't worry about it.


Edited by - beantownshootah on 06/16/2010 3:27:47 PM
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quickmajik
Advanced Member

USA
18444 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2010 :  1:53:57 PM  Show Profile
My personal preferance is to go with chrome lining if it is offered, and I have more then one chrome lined AR that with print 1" groups or less.

Standard Armalite AR barrels are chrome lined yet they offer excellent accuracy, ditto Bushmaster and ColT.

Edit
when you look at a rifles factory discription, it should tell if it has a chrome lined barrel or not. If it doesnt say either way and you dont know, my advise is to assume that it doesnt have a chrome lined barrel..

It constricts choice to look at lists because lists often omit many brands because the compilers are either ignorant of thier existance or lazy.

Edited by - quickmajik on 06/16/2010 2:09:28 PM
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milsurplus
Junior Member

204 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2010 :  2:02:33 PM  Show Profile
Which AK47/AKM rifles and AR15 rifles have chrome lined barrels as opposed to non chrome lined Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Alloy barrels or maybe a website that lists such info on both rifles?

So sounds like the difference between chrome lined barrels and non-chrome lined Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Alloy barrels then is really insignificant whether it be for military or civilian use?

Thank you everyone for the help.

"What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss?"......
88
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tsr1965
Advanced Member

USA
7120 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2010 :  4:32:27 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by milsurplus

Which AK47/AKM rifles and AR15 rifles have chrome lined barrels as opposed to non chrome lined Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Alloy barrels or maybe a website that lists such info on both rifles?

So sounds like the difference between chrome lined barrels and non-chrome lined Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Alloy barrels then is really insignificant whether it be for military or civilian use?

Thank you everyone for the help.



That is not a true statement. For the casual plinker, there is not much difference. For the guy who is going to put 30-40K rounds thru the barrel, the chrome lined one will run the distance usually. I will give you a good example of corrosion, which chrome lining does NOTHING for, and that is corrosive primed ammo. If left uncleand, the mecurious nitrate will eat the chrome lining and the barrel. An example where chrome lining helped with ERROSION is the 223WSSM. The early rifles were not lined and burnt barrels extremely fast...the first 6 inches of throat and rifling would be gone in less than700 rounds or so. The chromed lining helped extend barrel life to two or three times that.

Best
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milsurplus
Junior Member

204 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2010 :  4:47:10 PM  Show Profile
I think that my meaning was misinterpreted concerning the use of 'insignificant', meaning insignificant in most users applications of the rifle whether military or civilian, as I was agreeing with some of the previous posters is all. Concerning full auto there are better firearms for full auto use imo and full auto other than for suppressive fire is a waste imo and will wear out anything overtime, but anyway alot of good info, thank you.

"What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss?"......
88
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