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Guitar Picker
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2010 :  5:46:04 PM  Show Profile
I have a peral handle 25 cal junioir colt auto. Says it was made in Spain. How can I find out it's value?

Spartacus
Advanced Member

12066 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2010 :  5:57:29 PM  Show Profile
all depends on condition. do you have the original box and paperwork, that can significantly increase the price. the junior was made by astra in spain for colt. there are no true factory MOP that i am aware of, but it's a common addition. the junior has never been particularly well regarded by serious colt collectors, but there are some out there.
here's a $500 gun:


EDIT: the experts here are correct as usual. the astra made guns are more numerous and, i think, better quality than the less common US made guns. the MOP are all synthetic, unless you had some custom made. the jay scott synthetics has a wood veneer backing to stabilize the plastic mop. the grips on mine (pictured) are not jay scott.
tom


What part of 'shall not be infringed' do you not understand?

forgive your enemies, but NEVER forget their names.....JFK

The average response time for a 911 call is 4 minutes.
the average response time for a .357 magnum is 1400 FPS.

Edited by - Spartacus on 12/12/2010 11:20:55 AM
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nmyers
Advanced Member

12534 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2010 :  10:36:39 PM  Show Profile
MOP grips were sold as parts for the Astra Cub by Interarms; that is likely what is installed on the gun shown.

All factory Colts made by Astra came with checkered walnut grips with Colt medallions.

Neal
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MIKE WISKEY
Advanced Member

7888 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2010 :  08:47:00 AM  Show Profile
fwiw, gunparts has original colt grips for these. they are nice, well made little pistols that came in .22 short and .25 auto. values that I've seen them sell for are $200-$400.

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Bill DeShivs
Senior Member

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2010 :  1:34:17 PM  Show Profile
The grips are not mother of pearl, they are plastic- "mother of toilet seat."

Bill DeShivs
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15682 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2010 :  2:26:40 PM  Show Profile
A U.S. aftermarket grip manufacturer named Jay Scott sold similar appearing grips during that time frame, circa 60's/80's?. I don't know specifically if he made them for the Junior's though.

There were two generations of Junior's I believe. Prior to the enactment of the 1968 gun control law. Colt imported the Astra made Juniors from Spain as totally completed pistols. After 68 they made a short lived attempt to assemble and sell them with a combination of American made and Spanish parts, to make the feds happy. These Junior's that aren't marked "Made in Spain" aren't common, and would be worth more to a Colt collector. I believe they are the ones that TPLUMERI refers to as $500 Junior's.

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JudgeColt
Senior Member

2381 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2010 :  01:14:21 AM  Show Profile
There is constant confusion between the Colt Junior and the Colt Automatic .25. The one tplumeri posts is likely an Automatic .25, based on the style of box in which it is pictured. (Juniors have a red box with graphics on it.) It is my belief that more Automatic .25 pistols were made than Juniors, based on the numbers of each one encounters. It is further my belief that no factory pearl stocks were ever offered for the Junior, or Automatic .25.

The Junior was made in Spain by Astra for Colt beginning in the late 1950s. The Junior serial numbers have a "CC" prefix, and are marked "Junior" on the slide and "Made in Spain for Colt's" on the frame. The Junior was made in both .25ACP and .22 Short chamberings. Colt even offered a Conversion Unit to convert a .25ACP Junior pistol to .22 Short.

The 1968 Gun Control Act outlawed the importation of the Junior as "non-sporting," so in 1970, Colt contracted with Firearms International of Florida to make the clone of the Junior. The Automatic serial numbers have an "OD" prefix and are stamped "Automatic .25" in the slide.
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15682 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2010 :  12:53:31 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by JudgeColt

There is constant confusion between the Colt Junior and the Colt Automatic .25. The one tplumeri posts is likely an Automatic .25, based on the style of box in which it is pictured. (Juniors have a red box with graphics on it.) It is my belief that more Automatic .25 pistols were made than Juniors, based on the numbers of each one encounters. It is further my belief that no factory pearl stocks were ever offered for the Junior, or Automatic .25.

The Junior was made in Spain by Astra for Colt beginning in the late 1950s. The Junior serial numbers have a "CC" prefix, and are marked "Junior" on the slide and "Made in Spain for Colt's" on the frame. The Junior was made in both .25ACP and .22 Short chamberings. Colt even offered a Conversion Unit to convert a .25ACP Junior pistol to .22 Short.

The 1968 Gun Control Act outlawed the importation of the Junior as "non-sporting," so in 1970, Colt contracted with Firearms International of Florida to make the clone of the Junior. The Automatic serial numbers have an "OD" prefix and are stamped "Automatic .25" in the slide.





Firearms International went out of business in the early 70's. Doubtful because of this that they were able to produce the Colt .25 Automatic greater then the Astra made Junior.

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JudgeColt
Senior Member

2381 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2010 :  9:23:17 PM  Show Profile
I apologize in advance for the following thread drift, but now that rufe-snow has raised the production quantity issue, it needs to be addressed for the record.

The Colt Automatic .25 was introduced in 1971 and discontinued in 1973, perhaps coinciding with the demise of Firearms International. The Automatic .25 serial numbers began at OD10001 and ended at OD120471, which means there may have been 110,470 Automatic .25 pistols, assuming all the numbers were used.

The Astra-made Colt Junior .25 was introduced in 1958 and discontinued in 1968, due to the 1968 Gun Control Act that forbade importation of "non-sporting" firearms. Junior .25 serial numbers began at 1CC and ended at 85082CC, which means there may have been 85,082 Junior .25 pistols, again assuming all the numbers were used.

If my wood-pencil calculator is working correctly, that means there were 25,388 more Automatic .25 pistols than Junior .25 pistols. I consider 25,388 to be a significant number, and that is why I made the statement I made that rufe-snow doubts to the point of highlighting it in red. Apparently, I should have backed it up with hard evidence in my first post, but I did not expect it to be challenged since I only addressed the difference between the Junior and the Automatic .25 after tplumeri posted a picture of an apparent Automatic .25 when the original question concerned a Junior.
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15682 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2010 :  9:43:04 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by JudgeColt

I apologize in advance for the following thread drift, but now that rufe-snow has raised the production quantity issue, it needs to be addressed for the record.

The Colt Automatic .25 was introduced in 1971 and discontinued in 1973, perhaps coinciding with the demise of Firearms International. The Automatic .25 serial numbers began at OD10001 and ended at OD120471, which means there may have been 110,470 Automatic .25 pistols, assuming all the numbers were used.

The Astra-made Colt Junior .25 was introduced in 1958 and discontinued in 1968, due to the 1968 Gun Control Act that forbade importation of "non-sporting" firearms. Junior .25 serial numbers began at 1CC and ended at 85082CC, which means there may have been 85,082 Junior .25 pistols, again assuming all the numbers were used.

If my wood-pencil calculator is working correctly, that means there were 25,388 more Automatic .25 pistols than Junior .25 pistols. I consider 25,388 to be a significant number, and that is why I made the statement I made that rufe-snow doubts to the point of highlighting it in red. Apparently, I should have backed it up with hard evidence in my first post, but I did not expect it to be challenged since I only addressed the difference between the Junior and the Automatic .25 after tplumeri posted a picture of an apparent Automatic .25 when the original question concerned a Junior.




Sorry JC, I just don't buy your argument at all. I've been in this game since the 60's. The number of Colt .25's, post 1968, US made automatics that I have seen, have been few and far between. I don't care what the serial number range is supposed to show. I refuse to believe that FI made over 100,000 of them in something like two years. 10,000, even that's doubtful to me, would be a much more realistic figure. To me it's just another case of lies; damn lies, and statistics, if you know what I mean.

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JudgeColt
Senior Member

2381 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2010 :  01:20:20 AM  Show Profile
Sorry, rufe-snow, but I do not buy your argument. I have been in this game since the 1950s and rarely see a Spanish-made Junior at a gun show, while the U.S.-made Automatic .25 pistols are fairly common by comparison.

Why would Colt falsify the serial numbers on the Automatic .25? What would be gained? I have been studying and following Colts since the 1950s and have never heard of Colt "padding" serial numbers to make it look like more of a particular model had been produced that had actually been produced. The 1968 Gun Control Act requires that all production be reported accurately to the ATF so that further reduces the likelihood that the figures are not accurate.

The Automatic .25 was the least expensive Colt made in the early 1970s, and, by buying one, the buyer could say he or she had purchased a new Colt. Because they cost so little, they were often bought so someone could have a gun in the house, while ignoring the fact that they were a poor choice for self-defense. Many were never fired. That is why so many of them are found in their original boxes.
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