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 Help With Old Belgian Double Barrel Shotgun
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dpnelson1180
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2011 :  7:44:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have an old Belgian double barrel 12 gauge shotgun that I am trying to find more information about. It is beautifully engraved, but I cannot find any manufacturer information. It has the ELG mark with the crown on top. I have good pictures, but I don't think I can post them here. The gun also has a nice "mutton" leather case which I believe is original to the gun. NF (inside an oval) and DH are also stamped on the barrel. P.V with a lion on top is also stamped, which I believe means smokeless powder. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

dpnelson1180
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2011 :  8:18:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here are some pictures of the gun:

http://img816.imageshack.us/i/jan2011019.jpg/
http://img5.imageshack.us/i/jan2011027.jpg/
http://img259.imageshack.us/i/jan2011028.jpg/
http://img412.imageshack.us/i/jan2011029.jpg/
http://img687.imageshack.us/i/jan2011030.jpg/
http://img21.imageshack.us/i/jan2011022.jpg/
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Ned Fall
Member

USA
645 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2011 :  9:52:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thousands of Belgian made shotguns were imported into the United States between 1880 and 1914 when World War One, The Great War or The War to End All Wars (choose one) cut off exports from Europe. The letters "ELG" in an oval with a crown on top is of course a Belgian proof mark. The other best information I cam come up with is that the letters "NF" were used by a Belgian maker named Neumann Freres. Perhaps this is your maker. Are there any markings on the top rib or the lock plates?

Ned Fall
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cbyerly
Member

695 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2011 :  10:12:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It looks like a pretty high grade gun. I would get a copy of the Double Gun Journal and contact some of the sellers for info.
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15851 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2011 :  10:19:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It appears to be a gun of excellent quality, chambered for 3" shells. Not your run of the mill, beater Belgian hammer shotgun that was imported prior to the First World War. Because the chambering for 3" shells I don't believe it's that old, probably after the end of WW II, is more likely.

There were a couple of shotgun specific web-site that had a lot of European collectors participating. Because of their strict gun laws on the other side of the pond, it's a lot easier for them to collect sporting shotguns then rifles or pistols.

If our folks can't help with identification and valuation try GOOGLEing for "double gun journal" and "shotgun world". I believe that the names of the two shotgun web sites.
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Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

3507 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2011 :  12:33:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lowercase letter "e" is for 1926 in the chart at
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html
Which fits because the elongated C with 12-75 for gauge and chamber length came into use in 1924.
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dpnelson1180
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2011 :  08:34:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Thanks for the information about Neumann Freres. There are no other markings except for a number 2 stamped on the forearm metal.

quote:
Originally posted by Ned Fall

Thousands of Belgian made shotguns were imported into the United States between 1880 and 1914 when World War One, The Great War or The War to End All Wars (choose one) cut off exports from Europe. The letters "ELG" in an oval with a crown on top is of course a Belgian proof mark. The other best information I cam come up with is that the letters "NF" were used by a Belgian maker named Neumann Freres. Perhaps this is your maker. Are there any markings on the top rib or the lock plates?

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dpnelson1180
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2011 :  08:35:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks everyone for the information.
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dpnelson1180
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2011 :  09:48:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html

This site says that the mark NF in an oval is the mark for Neuprez Brothers, or "Neuprez Freres". Is anyone familiar with this?

Also,
to Rufe-Snow, It looks like there were some belgian shotguns chambered in 3" in the 1920's
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15851 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2011 :  10:56:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dpnelson1180

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html

This site says that the mark NF in an oval is the mark for Neuprez Brothers, or "Neuprez Freres". Is anyone familiar with this?

Also,
to Rufe-Snow, It looks like there were some belgian shotguns chambered in 3" in the 1920's



Very unique and unusual Gun because of that. 16 gauge shotguns were pretty much the standard in Europe during that time frame. To find a 3" 12 gauge that doesn't have "Made in Belgium" markings signifying it was made for export sale to the U.S. is a wonder. It was probably a special order gun made for a American who bought it in Europe during the 20's.

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