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 45 ACP SHOOTING LOW
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ENBLOC
Junior Member

184 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2011 :  11:04:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just acquired an EAA Witness all steel 45 ACP. It shoot 8 inches low at 25 yards with the existing sights. I have to hold the rear site on the black and raise the front sight so that bottom of front is at top of rear notch. The front sight is a solid part of the slide .1260 inch tall. The bottom of the rear notch is .158 inch above the slide. The dovetail for rear sight is .3205 inch at bottom. Rear sight has two small allen screws that lock sight into dovetail. Windage is right on. No way to adjust for height. Pistol appears to be very accurate as I had two shots make a figure 8 in the bull. Have tried 185 & 230 grain lead bullets....both shoot low! Having to sight this way is no fun. Advice???

Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

3501 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2011 :  11:36:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You need a rear sight .050"-.060" taller, depending on the sight radius. I have one made by my local gunsmith. Maybe if you called EAA they could furnish a taller rear sight.

LPA makes sights for Tanfoglios; maybe one of theirs would do.
The critical dimension is the height to the top of the blade, not to the notch.
http://www.precisionsights.com/Product/Sight_Product_home.html

You do not have a tall enough front to cut down that much and still get a good aim.

Edited by - Hawk Carse on 07/04/2011 11:37:45 PM
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perry shooter
Advanced Member

13960 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2011 :  07:02:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello the correct sight picture should be with the top of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight and the Point of impact right at the point of the height of the top edge of these sights. "CALLED CENTER OF MASS" . Many shooters like the target to be like a Ball siting on top of this line . so called "6:00 o-clock hold." I think you are trying a "FINE BEAD " if I read your post correctly .This does not work with most factory IRON SIGHTS.
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beantownshootah
Advanced Member

USA
13152 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2011 :  1:59:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What perry said, with illustrations:



Picture #1 is the typical "target" or "6'o clock" hold. Note that this type of sight picture is useful **ONLY** for competitive type target shooting.

Picture #2 is the "point of aim" hold, and most guns are set up this way. This is probably the best sight picture arrangement for combat/hunting type pistols.

Picture #3 is a "point of aim" hold, but altered to work with three dot type sights. *IF* you like dot sights (and I personally do NOT), then you could use this sight picture.

Note that in a pinch and at close distance #1 = #2 = #3! They'll all be "close enough".


Anyway, getting back to the question, if you are using the proper sight picture, but still shooting too LOW then you need either a taller REAR sight or a lower FRONT sight.

I'd look at a taller REAR sight if I were you.
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Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

3501 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2011 :  2:17:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the 6 o'clock hold has some general application.
It is a very precise aiming method and if you zero 6 o'clock at say 50 feet, you will be right on at about 40 yards and not much low until past 50 yards.
Zero for a center hold at some close range as many people do and that guarantees you will either be low at any greater distance or having to hold over.
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andrewsw16
Advanced Member

USA
8879 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2011 :  4:01:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For the newbies: Everyone must find the sight picture they can be most accurate using. I used to use #1 until I spent a couple of years on one of the military pistol teams. Our coach demonstrated the real weakness of #1. That is, it relies upon the distance between the bull's center and the 6 o'clock edge remaining constant. If that is true, then the 6 o'clock (or lollypop) does work quite well in competition and you get a nice view of the target. But, if that distance changes, for whatever reason, such as switching to a different category of target that has a different diameter of black area, you are going to have to spend time tweaking your elevation to compensate for that. If you are using sight picture #2, center of mass, then it doesn't matter whether the target has a 1" black or a 12" black. You still aim at the same point (center) and your POI should have no change. Center hold even makes sense logically and naturally, as you are aiming at what you want to hit instead of aiming X inches below what you want to hit. So if you are in a paper bullseye formal competition and are assured the black diameter won't change, use either. For combat or hunting, center of mass is easier to use. But, we're all different. Use whichever results in more accuracy for YOU.
But, back to the OP, I second installing a taller rear sight. If you know someone who can do math proportion equations he can tell you how much higher your rear sight needs to be to raise the POI by 8" at the distance specified. You will just need very accurate measurements of the height of both of the current sights and the distance between them. After that, a minor math formula will tell you the sight height needed.

Edited by - andrewsw16 on 07/05/2011 4:17:37 PM
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BUCKAWHO
Junior Member

475 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2011 :  7:10:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shoot heavier bullets. BT
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ENBLOC
Junior Member

184 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2011 :  7:54:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank You Hawk Carse! I'll call Precision Sights and order a white outline adj. rear sight for my Tanfoglio/Witness. As I recall my Pistols with fixed sights are set for 25 yards using Image #2. P-38, CZ-75, Sig 226, 225, 239, Glock 17, etc. My H&K USP 9 is an ex-FBI issue and the fixed sights are on with Image 3. I tried heavier (230 gr.) in the 45 and was using Image 3 with the front sight elevated all the way up & out of the rear notch. I mostly have 9mm's and try different weights/recipes to see which gun groups the best. The Sig 239 loves 90 grain XTP, The Sig 225 & 226 like golden saber 224 grains. The Glock 17 has 100 grain Hintenberger +P+. This is my first trip into .45 land........THANKS!!
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