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 Dang! I Reckon Any Dog Can Go Nuts!
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nunn
Administrator

USA
36099 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  11:21:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
FWIW, I don't call a dog a "K-9" or a "canine" any more than I call a cow a "bovine" or a cat a "feline." It is a cutesy name made up to try to set a working dog apart from "ordinary" dogs. It is still a dog.

http://www.policeone.com/K-9/articles/5708979-Mich-K-9-turns-on-handler-is-fatally-shot/

Mich. K-9 turns on handler, is fatally shot

The K-9 would not release the bite after several commands

By PoliceOne Staff

PONTIAC, Mich. — An Oakland County Sheriff's deputy shot and killed his K-9 after the animal attacked him during a trip to the veterinarian Thursday.

Sheriff's officials say Gunner, a German Shepherd who had been with the department for five years, had recently undergone remedial training for "serious aggression" and needed a veterinary consultation as the next step.

When the K-9 team arrived for the appointment and were outside the deputy's vehicle, the dog suddenly lunged and bit the deputy's arm, near his face.

The K-9 would not release the bite after several commands. The handler, a 23-year veteran of the sheriff's department, fatally shot the dog.

The deputy was admitted to the hospital for treatment of a puncture wound to his arm and is expected to recover, according to WXYZ.

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oldrider
Advanced Member

USA
3949 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  11:26:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I guess dogs are more like people than I thought. After working around horses my entire life, I know there are some equine sociopaths.

Equine- not what I call them but I had to put that in just for you, David.

Edited by - oldrider on 06/09/2012 11:28:59 AM
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n/a
deleted

15445 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  11:29:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
German shepherds can go nuts.. I work with some,,, One has bitten the owner.. and killed another shepherd where I work.... Classic had one for 5 years when it turned on him... No dog is predictable.....


Lil' Stinker's Opinion
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JnRockwall
Advanced Member

USA
13965 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  11:30:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The question is did he kill a cop?

“When the South raised its sword against the Union’s Flag, it was in defense of the Union’s Constitution.”
Confederate General John B. Gordon

I got married to an ugly woman. Don't ever do that. It just takes the energy right out of you Red Webster
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nunn
Administrator

USA
36099 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  11:33:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
The question is did he kill a cop?


No. No matter what label is applied, a dog is not a person, and therefore, cannot be a peace officer.

A DOG IS A DOG!

Now, suppose a human police officer went off his nut and attacked another police officer and was killed. That would be a homicide to be sure, but most likely justifiable.

There are laws on the books regarding assaulting, killing, or harassing a police animal, but if a police animal goes nuts and attacks a handler, killing it is also most likely justifiable.

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Spider7115
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USA
24947 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  11:37:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nunn

No. No matter what label is applied, a dog is not a person, and therefore, cannot be a peace officer.

A DOG IS A DOG!


When a perp shoots or kicks a police dog, isn't he charged with assault of a police officer?

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MVP
Advanced Member

Equatorial Guinea
22054 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  11:38:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Only dog to ever bite me was a German Shepherd.
Left 4 puncture wounds on my forearm.


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nunn
Administrator

USA
36099 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  11:41:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
When a perp shoots or kicks a police dog, isn't he charged with assault of a police officer?


No. Not possible, not in Texas anyway. There are laws to protect service animals, but a police officer is a human.

I know it is tempting and fun to try and anthropomorphize animals, but a dog is still a dog, and it will always be a dog.

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n/a
deleted

26702 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  11:51:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No. No matter what label is applied, a dog is not a person, and therefore, cannot be a peace officer.

A DOG IS A DOG!

Dont ever assault a police dog here..You might just as well shoot the cop rather than the dog.......










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Oakie
Advanced Member

USA
14069 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  12:06:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A dog is an animal and unpredictable. I do not trust any dog not to bite.

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nunn
Administrator

USA
36099 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  12:15:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Dont ever assault a police dog here..You might just as well shoot the cop rather than the dog.......


Classic, I don't believe that is true. What do your actual statutes say?

I know if someone harms a police dog, it makes the papers, and the public gets all excited about it, because generally, people like dogs better than they do cops, but I will not believe that the actual law calls for a greater penalty for harming a dog than for harming a human.

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Spider7115
Moderator

USA
24947 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  12:56:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Apparently, it depends on the state or jurisdiction:

"In most states, a police dog is considered a full-fledged police officer, sometimes even given a badge. As such, most laws find assaulting a police dog to be equal or very similar to assaulting a human officer, and as a result some agencies will deem it acceptable for officers to open fire on a person who is intentionally hurting a police dog, with apparent attempt to kill it. However, this is not a unanimous policy."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog

-"SPIDER"

ALLAH KA-BAR!


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mlincoln
Advanced Member

3424 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  1:01:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, you take any male to the doctor to have his nuts chopped off, you can expect to be bitten.
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n/a
deleted

26702 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  1:10:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is applicable in a few more states...

A violation of Florida’s
police dog law constitutes a third-degree felony, which is punishable by
a maximum five-year prison term and a maximum $5000 fine.24 The
trial judge sentenced the defendant to eleven months and twenty-nine
days in jail and ordered restitution in the amount of just over $4000.25

Fla. Stat. § 843.19(2) (2000) (provides that “[a]ny person who knowingly and willfully
and without lawful cause or justification inflicts bodily harm, permanent disability,
or death upon a police dog, fire dog, SAR dog, or police horse commits a felony of the
third degree . . . ”); Tom Spalding, Prison Time Given to Man in Dog Death, Sarasota
Herald-Trib., 1B (May 6, 2000).









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nunn
Administrator

USA
36099 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  4:17:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Spider, please don't quote Wikipedia as any sort of authority. ANYONE can put what they THINK is correct on Wikipedia.

Classic, thanks for the citation. For a fair comparison, what is the penalty in Florida for committing the same sort of offense against a police officer?

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fishkiller41
Advanced Member

USA
39411 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  4:56:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have seen K-9's wearing flack gear and a bigass badge before...
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nunn
Administrator

USA
36099 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  5:02:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dogs sometimes wear body armor. Even hog dogs wear armor. You can get flotation vests for dogs too. Some police dogs wear badges, but until you can get one to put one paw on the Bible, raise the other paw, and answer affirmatively to the Oath of Office, they won't be Peace Officers.

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Spider7115
Moderator

USA
24947 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  5:31:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nunn

Spider, please don't quote Wikipedia as any sort of authority. ANYONE can put what they THINK is correct on Wikipedia.

Classic, thanks for the citation. For a fair comparison, what is the penalty in Florida for committing the same sort of offense against a police officer?


I knew you'd say that but I checked the references first. Check this out:

http://www.policek9.com/html/statutes.html


-"SPIDER"

ALLAH KA-BAR!


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n/a
deleted

26702 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  6:03:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Assault on Police officer is about the same punishment as an assault on a police dog...

Assault on Police Officer
Felony, Up to $5,000 Fine &/or 3 to 15 Yrs Pen.


Then we get into the degrees of assault..Which carry stiffer sentencing...

a police dog killed in the line of duty is often given a full police funeral
Naturally they do not compare the Killing of a police dog as murder, But the Assault charges are just as stiff....

They do not take lightly anyone messing with anything that is Law Enforcement Connected...

Then on top of that, Florida has some of the stiffest animal abuse laws in the country....










Edited by - n/a on 06/09/2012 6:12:15 PM
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nunn
Administrator

USA
36099 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2012 :  11:10:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
a police dog killed in the line of duty is often given a full police funeral


Now, THAT'S funny! We have buried a few police dogs, none killed in the line of duty, but we just found a place, dug a hole and buried the dog.


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Waco Waltz
Advanced Member

USA
11856 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  01:07:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Dog's been watching the cop and had dirt on him. He must have committed some crimes so the dog thought it was a good time to make an arrest.

Or maybe the dog was just mad about the trip to the vet. Most animals learn to fear the vet visit.

“There was truth and there was untruth, and if you clung to the truth even against the whole world, you were not mad.”
George Orwell, 1984


Maybe someone can explain what I saw once.


Traveling from the Small town of in Idaho to a larger city in ID we observed 5 to 6 jets, smaller military fighter sized jets, they were really high making an exact ID on them impossible but they were all flying a huge grid at the same time and we could tell they were not air liners. The grid was over air space around 10 to 15 miles wide and and as long. I observed the jets multiple times come to the end of the grid and then the trail would stop, they would make a sharp (As sharp as needed) U-turn and re align for another run in the grid and as soon as they came into the grid zone the trail would begin again. One would do it on one side while another jet would do the same thing on the other side while yet another would do this in the middle and side of the grid. Each time, no matter what jet came to the end of the grid no matter the location of the grid the trail stopped. And each time any jet no matter the location entered the grid again the trail would begin again. At no point inside the grid would you see any breaks in the trail. None.
#8232;Now knowing something about the science of contrails I knew the mathematical improbability that the jets were entering and leaving warmer and cooler air pockets at precisely the correct times to form this grid was astronomically high to the point of being absurd to entertain the notion. Again, no where inside the grid was there any break in the trails. I know the jets were not cutting their power. I knew that day that I was witnessing air craft spraying something in the sky and what I was seeing was what people were calling chemtrails. I observed the jets for over an hour from the car as we traveled. I wish I had a video camera back then but I did not. I sat on what I had witnesses for some years and then I observed the internet arguments on the topic. Occasionally I would tell people on forums what I had seen with my own eyes but it would be dismissed as water vapors and warm and cool air pockets. They either were not listening to me or they did not believe I saw what I had related. If I pressed the issue or brought up the odds of improbability they just called me crazy. I knew I was not getting across in words what I had seen so even hand drew an illustration but people just don’t want to accept that something might be going on in the sky they cannot explain to stop so the charges that I was nuts continued and of course the personal attacks. When I would enter a topic with this information it was not long that the topic would be closed. Or if posting on Craig’s list it would be flagged off with in minutes so fast in fact there has to be more at work then simply the CL community flaggers at work. In San Diego’s Craig’s List it seems someone has a fast track flag button with anything that gets to close to the truth. The topics are allowed to stay up so long as the debunkers can make fun of the chemtrails truth advocates but post something like I am here and it disappears faster it can be publicly seen. So if nothing is going on then why censor the people talking about the stuff being sprayed?
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select-fire
Advanced Member

43435 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  01:37:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Upon arrival at the vet... the dog freaked out and remembered the last time he was there.. electrical device, paw cuffs, hypnosis, the hallucianal drugs, helter skelter music... Vet Hyde wasn't doing it again.. Please owner don't make me go.. I ain' turning loose till the sun goes down..
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Spider7115
Moderator

USA
24947 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  08:36:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nunn

quote:
a police dog killed in the line of duty is often given a full police funeral


Now, THAT'S funny! We have buried a few police dogs, none killed in the line of duty, but we just found a place, dug a hole and buried the dog.




Personally, I think it's appropriate and respectful. K-9's have saved many human lives, both in the police and military sectors.

In Loving Memory of K9 ULF
May 15, 2000 - May 6, 2008



Handler: K-9 Officer Christian Sciulli
Pittsburgh Police Department
1203 Western Ave.
Pittsburgh, PA 15233
412 323-7800

Police dog mourned as heroic protector

Police dog funeral



K-9 officers from across the county stand at attention on Saturday for Ulf, the Pittsburgh police dog killed during a shootout that left 19-year-old Justin Jackson of Knoxville dead.

http://www.petmemorialcards.com/mem2008-U.html


-"SPIDER"

ALLAH KA-BAR!


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Removed at users request.
Advanced Member

USA
5896 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  08:50:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nunn

quote:
Dont ever assault a police dog here..You might just as well shoot the cop rather than the dog.......


Classic, I don't believe that is true. What do your actual statutes say?

I know if someone harms a police dog, it makes the papers, and the public gets all excited about it, because generally, people like dogs better than they do cops, but I will not believe that the actual law calls for a greater penalty for harming a dog than for harming a human.



You said a mouth-full there. That hans't always been the case.
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toolmaniam
Senior Member

USA
2380 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  08:52:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All dogs have teeth and can or will bite if provoked. Some dogs have hair triggers. I deal with dogs all the time in my profession and constantly hear from owners "my dog dont bite". I would have shot the dog too if it were locked onto my harm trying to make a snack of it. Cocker Spaniels are the number one dog in all reported dog bites in the U.S., not Rotts, Pit Bulls or German Sheperds.

Sivis Pacem, Para Bellum
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Removed at users request.
Advanced Member

USA
5896 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  08:52:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nunn

Dogs sometimes wear body armor. Even hog dogs wear armor. You can get flotation vests for dogs too. Some police dogs wear badges, but until you can get one to put one paw on the Bible, raise the other paw, and answer affirmatively to the Oath of Office, they won't be Peace Officers.



Maybe if a higher percentage honored this oath, LEO's would be held in higher regard than dogs.

Edited by - Removed at users request. on 06/10/2012 08:53:33 AM
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nunn
Administrator

USA
36099 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  09:34:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Charles, what do you do? Whatever it is, are you ready to aver that 100% of your colleagues are diligent, honest, and competent?


I didn't think so.


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riflemike
Advanced Member

USA
4708 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  10:03:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know many more dogs that act more human than punk ass kids and A lot of adult humans...they are more compassionate, loving/ loyal /obedient
than most "humans"

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death.
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1911a1-fan
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Chile
31396 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  10:43:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i have a friend that breeds and train dogs for police and search and rescue, that now has a military contract {Belgian malinois}, he has taught me more about dogs and training them, {of course never as much as the experts here know}

anyway problem police dogs have is when they get a dog they are stuck with it, some times it is a good choice, but often it is a 5,000 dollar + mistake and they are stuck with it, and just like people not all are cut out to be cops




quote:
Originally posted by nunn

PLEASE...Will all of you who carry a 1911, chamber loaded, hammer down, unload it, leave it home, and carry something else.

Condition 2 is the most dangerous condition for a 1911. In that condition, it can fire if dropped. I refer to those without the Colt Series 80 passive firing pin safety.

Condition 1 is the way to go. If that makes you nervous, carry chamber empty or get a Glock.









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n/a
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26702 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  10:51:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To a lot of people,, Dogs are not "Just Dogs"









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skicat
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9985 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  11:57:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't care if it is a police officer or his dog but if either one bites me and won't let go I'm going to do what I have to.

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." Ron Paul

“The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don’t know anything about.”
- Wayne Dyer
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Advanced Member

USA
5896 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  1:22:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nunn

Charles, what do you do? Whatever it is, are you ready to aver that 100% of your colleagues are diligent, honest, and competent?


I didn't think so.





I own my own business. Have for the last 13 years. We employ about 100 people.

I would aver nothing of the kind, nor would I defend those who are scumbags, nor would I pretend that those with my same profession (and thus myself) are somehow a cut above everyone else.

How about you?

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nunn
Administrator

USA
36099 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  1:24:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Same.

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Posted - 06/10/2012 :  1:25:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Right.
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machine gun moran
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USA
5126 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  2:07:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Re-bending the thread a little, one of the dogs in my overseas unit had to be shot by his own handler. It was a singular incident. And there was an opposite case, in which the dog was sent back to the States because he couldn't be made 'mean'. The methods of conditioning the dogs were brutal, but this dog never stopped wanting to approach people for the purpose of licking them while wagging his tail (I hope he found a good family).

Control is an illusion, because nobody knows what's going to happen next.
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nunn
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USA
36099 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  2:09:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So, Charles, what sort of business is it that you own?

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Juggernaut
Senior Member

1362 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  2:58:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any animal is still an animal including a dog and its our human perception that changes towards the animal or in this case the dog. However the dog remains as itself still an animal with the pack mentality and we are either considered the leader of its 'pack' (and at some point it may or may not attempt to challenge that) or a stranger...When I train dogs in the military fashion I always try to keep this mentality in mind and is why for example I never bring my face to theirs or any other animal for that matter as it can be considered as an act of aggression.
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Advanced Member

USA
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Posted - 06/10/2012 :  4:40:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nunn

So, Charles, what sort of business is it that you own?



I think it would be better for me to keep that to myself. I saw how you reacted to Wyatt Earp being successful.

If you really want to know I'd be glad to respond to an email.
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nunn
Administrator

USA
36099 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2012 :  6:43:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh well.

And I don't remember being envious of Wyatt Earp, or anyone else for that matter.

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