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Artillery Art
Starting Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  11:00:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What do you Think? A list of non-paying bidders, "up for bid" on GunBroker.com? Just a list of screen names, at first, no-pay, no-contact, then, after second offense, maybe real (supposedly) name, addresses, email, whatever. Maybe a one-cent sale or some minimal amount?

CS8161
Advanced Member

USA
13990 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  11:35:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thats why we have the feedback system.

CS8161
Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof!

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Artillery Art
Starting Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  11:54:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Feedback is good and is taken into account when I buy or sell. I VALUE my positive feedback. But what prevents those people for whom feedback means nothing from re-upping under a new name, etc.? Especially those who have no intent to sell or buy but simply to disrupt others from doing so? I have suspicions that those few bad eggs appear, disappear, and then re-appear on a regular basis. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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duckhunter
Advanced Member

8425 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  12:06:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
WRONG>
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CS8161
Advanced Member

USA
13990 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  12:09:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I believe that GunBroker has software that recognizes domain addresses, so if a person wants to interfere with the system, they need to use different computers each time they make an attempt.

CS8161
Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof!

My Guns for Sale at GunBroker.com
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KEVD18
Advanced Member

USA
15495 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  12:13:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Artillery Art

Feedback is good and is taken into account when I buy or sell. I VALUE my positive feedback. But what prevents those people for whom feedback means nothing from re-upping under a new name, etc.? Especially those who have no intent to sell or buy but simply to disrupt others from doing so? I have suspicions that those few bad eggs appear, disappear, and then re-appear on a regular basis. Correct me if I'm wrong.



if they are, they are using separate terminals(as in separate houses) to do it.

im sure it happens, but not to the volume you seem to believe. people who dont play by the rules are weeded out around here pretty quick. with an enterprise this big, there are obviously going to be gaps in the system. that why we have feedback, user policing of the auctions and such.

i dont think we need a vigilante lynch mob around here. captfun and crew have it well in hand...
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crash2usaf
Advanced Member

2779 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  12:44:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CS8161

I believe that GunBroker has software that recognizes domain addresses, so if a person wants to interfere with the system, they need to use different computers each time they make an attempt.



They can block IP addresses and or MAC addresses which is good especially if its the mac address. It would be even better if they can weed out the IPv6 address but I doubt it..

MAC and IPv6 addresses are usually specific to the computer/router.. I dont remember the "terms of agreement" but that may include access past the router or modem. I really dont know how sophisticated they are its probably just IP addresses
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poppalee
Senior Member

1097 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  12:57:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Disrupting buying guns on GunBroker. HUM, I wonder who would want to cause gun owners and gun sellers problems. Wow! I just can't think of a group of people that would do that.

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Artillery Art
Starting Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  1:41:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not quite as low on the evolutionary tree as those who protest and disrupt vetrans funerals! ANYBODY can buy and create a domain and wireless technology makes scamming all the easier. But I digress--NR bidders are the problem: no Joe America with 20 or more feedbacks within several years is gonna be a problem. And nobody mentioned a lynch-mob! If you buy from me and say something stupid,or act in an anti-social manner, you ain't gonna git a gun from me. A friend, local cop, was telling me, that once you win an auction, that person, legitimate or otherwise, has a location for you....and your goods...AND from your feedback, has a pretty good idea of what MAY be in your stash! GunBroker is the greatest thing for shooters and collectors since black powder so keep improving. BTW, I've never shot up a school, workplace, church, etc, but I'm sure going to find it harder to buy and collect in the future thanks to that TINIEST number of lunatics!
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nunn
Administrator

USA
35995 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  1:54:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you go to Support, there is an option for Feature Request. Go there and request the feature you desire.

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nutfinn
Advanced Member

8901 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  2:25:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Typically non-paying bidders are weeded out rather quick.
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crash2usaf
Advanced Member

2779 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  2:35:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Locust posted something about this cartoon asking "where his money will be spent"... I havent read locusts reviews but theres like 4 millions of them that says A+.. I wouldnt be worried about a NR bidder as long as they are legit, you get paid (granted may have to hold hands through the process). If you dont report it and relist the item.
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Oso2142
Advanced Member

2709 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  2:38:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Routers create subnets, and they sit behind the modem... I don't think that routers offer up the MAC to anything but the subnet. As far as what you'd see if somebody's logging in, is their port number (along with their IP, of course), AFAIK. I'm sure you could get a router's MAC, via the Internet, but, AFAIK, you'd have to configure the router for remote logging. Can you imagine explaining to somebody, like Joe, that he needs to configure his router to allow for GB to log in? I don't think so.

As far as GB blocking IP's: for somebody that knows how to get a different IP from their ISP, that would be wholly ineffective.

Plus, some of us, not me, have what is called a "dynamic" IP. Good luck with that one. You can block ranges but, that would exclude others, who are innocent.

When I was administering a BF2142 server, I'd find different ways to block cheaters from logging into our server. Unfortunately, in that game, they could change their Global Unique ID. Or, what is called, a "GUID". This is unique to their game key --- it was supposed to be, but they could change it (can't do this in BF3, thank God). It's an encrypted version of their key. Both EA (Electronic Arts), and PunkBuster, have their own algorithm to create it.

Anyway, keeping hackers off of your gaming servers can be a big challenge. Most of the script writers, who understand C++, and code in it, are pretty freaking smart --- so it becomes an intelligence game.

Last time I checked, even if you had a static IP, you could shut down your modem for 24 hours, and you'd give up your lease of that particular IP. Dynamic IP, reset your modem, and you're good to go. Maybe it's changed?

But, if you want a different IP, all you have to do is call your ISP and they'll reset it for you.

I think the best way to go about keeping jerks off of GB, is the way that GB is doing it --- as per the "verification process". I suppose, if it's NOT against GB's policy, you could tell potential bidders that they had to be verified to bid; unless they have an extensive track-record. But, you're going to forgo good folks, if you put too many restrictions on who can bid, and who can't.

MAC address? I have several computers --- so how in the hell would you keep me off, if I was a jerk? Plus, just change some hardware, you're back in business.

Right now, AFAIK, if you're a jerk, and all you're doing is buying, you don't have to be verified, and you can make the lives of good sellers miserable.

Eventually, perhaps, GB will make everybody step-up and get verified, upon joining. Those with long track-records, in theory, they're going to want to protect their reputation, that took however long to create, so they shouldn't be a problem. But, everybody gets a bit nutty, now and then.

I view CaptFun as a dynamic personality. He is a person who's a fast learner, adapts, and implements changes to keep his business healthy. Unfortunately, he can't cleanse the world of jerks. But, he does a good job of it, I'd say.

The stuff I shared was relevant a short while ago. However, things change, in the computer industry, rather fast. It used to be that things changed exponentially, but it appears that things have slowed, a bit, for now.


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DieHard4
Senior Member

USA
2149 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  2:42:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Artillery Art

Not quite as low on the evolutionary tree as those who protest and disrupt vetrans funerals! ANYBODY can buy and create a domain and wireless technology makes scamming all the easier. But I digress--NR bidders are the problem: no Joe America with 20 or more feedbacks within several years is gonna be a problem. And nobody mentioned a lynch-mob! If you buy from me and say something stupid,or act in an anti-social manner, you ain't gonna git a gun from me. A friend, local cop, was telling me, that once you win an auction, that person, legitimate or otherwise, has a location for you....and your goods...AND from your feedback, has a pretty good idea of what MAY be in your stash! GunBroker is the greatest thing for shooters and collectors since black powder so keep improving. BTW, I've never shot up a school, workplace, church, etc, but I'm sure going to find it harder to buy and collect in the future thanks to that TINIEST number of lunatics!




I have a list of nonpayers too over the years. I get one at times these days, but had a lot a few years back. And not always NR. I have found that a high positive count does not mean they will always pay. Actually, there are a lot of NR bidders these days it seems. But my concern is more with the bidders who already have negative feedback, or receive it from someone else once they have already won something from me. They tend to get more negative feedback from me too before long.

My last DWI was a trucker, driving a tractor and flatbed trailer loaded with lumber. He was high on meth and driving naked. --- Nunn

A Newtown elementary school is a far safer place for a child than a mother's womb in most all areas of the country. --- Mr. Perfect

Very few people in any society perform acts like this, and few societies react to these actions with self defeating responses. --- Crittergitter

When its time to rally the troops, I'll let you know. --- CaptFun
~~~~~~~~~
Member of GOA, GRNC, NRA, SAF.

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crash2usaf
Advanced Member

2779 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  3:53:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Getting into the subnet would be hard, and renewing an IP address is a fairly simple process I agree, but messing with even the mac address of your router would be a pain. I wouldnt know if GB retrieves the ip or mac from your router through the verification process.. Quite a bit of this is admittedly over my head but I have an slight idea of the things that could be done, a dedicated hacker would have more fun messing with gaming sites I would think. Im not going too in depth with the quality or intelligence of any shill bidders. I am thinking along the lines of them simply trying to create a new user name to get rid of negative feedback, and not taking the steps of changing IPs or what else. I have a static IP for my modem, yes I can /release /renew, or call comcast and get a new one or refresh it through the automated options, and the old standby unplug works..

Now if I had an extra modem floating around would that change my IP? I was thinking about the MAC address of the router, then it wouldnt matter how many computers you had on the network... I thought the router gave it up to the modem, so that the modem could identify it easier and quicker which is why the router remembers the mac addresses of the client computers. This would be an easy change of the router as well, but again how many folks would think of doing this to get rid of negative feedback. I know GB can get the IP addresses from your modem and block the ip address itself, but with DHCP that wouldnt do much good unless you also had a MAC address for any router.

there are always ways around these obstacles but at what length would you pursue these options?

And banning a range of IP would be silly like you said and I am almost in over my head here, im not a very good network tech, just wanted to learn enough to do the basics... Im more into web design.
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SOXXIE
Junior Member

USA
282 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  4:46:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To me, the feedback system is extremely important, I check it everytime prior to purchase and make my decision's based on it. Admittedly, every seller is gonna get a wingnut or two that you just can't satisfy........but, let's reverse that list idea for a moment.....How bout a list of seller's with agregous amount's of bad feedback ???? From what I have seen, most buyer's tend to dismiss poor feedback rating's, so I think these list's would be useless.
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Artillery Art
Starting Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  5:47:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Same here. If I'm looking at something with an eye-to-buy, I check the feedback. 1 or 2 hits is no biggie as people usually bitch more than they praise......but %5, 10%, or more Negative feedbacks and methinks the Grinch is in Whoville. I will ask GB that the 2nd highest bidder be given the chance to purchase. A few bucks less but less hassle for me, GB, and a roI want fees to go up to the 2nd Amendment-challenged.
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Locust Fork
Moderator

USA
25123 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  5:58:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Artillery Art

Same here. If I'm looking at something with an eye-to-buy, I check the feedback. 1 or 2 hits is no biggie as people usually bitch more than they praise......but %5, 10%, or more Negative feedbacks and methinks the Grinch is in Whoville. I will ask GB that the 2nd highest bidder be given the chance to purchase. A few bucks less but less hassle for me, GB, and a roI want fees to go up to the 2nd Amendment-challenged.



You cannot contact the second highest bidder.

Click here to check out my auctions?..I double dog dare you to!!!

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Artillery Art
Starting Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2012 :  6:54:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are correct that I cannot contact the second highest bidder. Please re-read: I stated that I will ask GB to do so. On GB since 2003 with 100% positive feedback. You don't jeopardize a good thing for the sake of a few dollars....at least I don't.
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bigoutside
Advanced Member

USA
14782 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2012 :  09:03:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm up for a lynch mob.
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