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 5.56 and .223
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nards444
Flaming Liberal

USA
3867 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  08:17:19 AM  Show Profile
Ok I was in the army had an M4 forever and just built my own. I ordered ammo on the internet and online it said .223 and 5.56.

Box came in and says .223 Remington. In the military everything said 5.56 on it. I know .223 equals 5.56. Question being is .223 Remington the designator for 5.56 in the civi world.

I thought there was a .223 ammo out ther that wouldnt work in the 5.56/.223 guns, cant remember what it was called.

Just looking for clarification.

tsr1965
Advanced Member

USA
7017 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  08:48:50 AM  Show Profile
nards444,

#1. 223 Remington, does not equal 5.56x45 NATO. While the external dimensions are similar, the 5.56 casing has slightly more wall thickness.

#2. You can fire ANY 223 Remington in ANY 5.56x45 NATO chamber. It is some of the 5.56x45 NATO, you cannot fire in the 223 Remington chamber.

See, it is not the cartridge dimensions that are differend, externally speaking, but it is the difference in the way the chambers are cut. The 5.56 has a longer leade, to be able to use the 75-90 grain VLD ammunition, in CMP Service Rifle competition. The 223 Remington has a shorter leade.

#3. There are several threads on this topic, over the last several years. The search function, is your friend.

Best

Take a look at these auctions on the otherside...
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/BrowseItems.aspx?IncludeSellers=484399

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nards444
Flaming Liberal

USA
3867 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  09:06:53 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by tsr1965

nards444,

#1. 223 Remington, does not equal 5.56x45 NATO. While the external dimensions are similar, the 5.56 casing has slightly more wall thickness.

#2. You can fire ANY 223 Remington in ANY 5.56x45 NATO chamber. It is some of the 5.56x45 NATO, you cannot fire in the 223 Remington chamber.

See, it is not the cartridge dimensions that are differend, externally speaking, but it is the difference in the way the chambers are cut. The 5.56 has a longer leade, to be able to use the 75-90 grain VLD ammunition, in CMP Service Rifle competition. The 223 Remington has a shorter leade.

#3. There are several threads on this topic, over the last several years. The search function, is your friend.

Best



thanks for the clarification, thats what I needed to know.
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nmyers
Advanced Member

12284 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  09:34:50 AM  Show Profile
Most, but not all, AR-type rifles are chambered to handle both cartridges safely.

You built it, you should know what the chamber is.

Neal

EDIT: The barrel twist rate is not the same as the chamber. For example, most Rock River Arms AR-type rifles are chambered in ".223 Wylde for .223/5.56mm". If you aren't sure what you have, go by the caliber stamped on the barrel.

Edited by - nmyers on 05/08/2013 10:59:23 AM
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nards444
Flaming Liberal

USA
3867 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  09:42:01 AM  Show Profile
its a 5.56 1x9 twist rate, so like said .223 should be fine in it.
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tsr1965
Advanced Member

USA
7017 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  09:54:55 AM  Show Profile
With that twist rate, it should love 62-69 grain bullets.

EDIT 1

quote:
I really wanted the 1x7 twist, but I just got the thing built about two weeks before the NY ban, so I couldnt be choosy.


In my collection, I only have one that is a 1 in 7, the rest are 1 in 8. I have two RRA upper's, both 16", one a varmint contour, and the other the lighter predator. I use them for hunting deer, from a stand, on a clear cut powerline. I load the Barnes 62 grain TSX-BT, on top of a near max. load of Reloader 15. I have good triggers in my rifles, and good glass on them, and with that load, they will shoot 1/2 MOA at 200 yards, or better...depending on conditions, and shooter. Them Barnes TSX bullets, especially in smaller caliber's are amazing on deer. You have plenty twist in your rifle, for 95% of what can be done.

Best


EDIT 2

I live and hunt in UPSTATE NY. I hunt mostly in the Adirondacks, as I am fortunate to have a large chunk of hunting ground there. In NY, where rifles are allowed, you can use ANY centerfire caliber. I have even used 22 Hornet with 45 grain TSX, and the 17 Fireball.

Yep...just checked...the regs say "ANY centerfire rifle". However, you have to make sure you have a 5 round magazine.

Best


EDIT 3

quote:
EDIT: The barrel twist rate is not the same as the chamber. For example, most Rock River Arms AR-type rifles are chambered in ".223 Wylde for .223/5.56mm". If you aren't sure what you have, go by the caliber stamped on the barrel.


The 223 Wylde is similar to the 5.56 chamber, with the longer leade. It has a different forcing cone angle, and appears to be benificial to accuracy, over the conventional 5.56 chamber.

Take a look at these auctions on the otherside...
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/BrowseItems.aspx?IncludeSellers=484399


Edited by - tsr1965 on 05/08/2013 11:11:07 AM
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nards444
Flaming Liberal

USA
3867 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  10:19:04 AM  Show Profile
the ones i bought are 62.

I really wanted the 1x7 twist, but I just got the thing built about two weeks before the NY ban, so I couldnt be choosy.
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nards444
Flaming Liberal

USA
3867 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  10:40:14 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by tsr1965

With that twist rate, it should love 62-69 grain bullets.

EDIT 1

quote:
I really wanted the 1x7 twist, but I just got the thing built about two weeks before the NY ban, so I couldnt be choosy.


In my collection, I only have one that is a 1 in 7, the rest are 1 in 8. I have two RRA upper's, both 16", one a varmint contour, and the other the lighter predator. I use them for hunting deer, from a stand, on a clear cut powerline. I load the Barnes 62 grain TSX-BT, on top of a near max. load of Reloader 15. I have good triggers in my rifles, and good glass on them, and with that load, they will shoot 1/2 MOA at 200 yards, or better...depending on conditions, and shooter. Them Barnes TSX bullets, especially in smaller caliber's are amazing on deer. You have plenty twist in your rifle, for 95% of what can be done.

Best




i dont think we can hunt deer with ARs well the .223 ones in NY as its labeled a 22 caliber.
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nards444
Flaming Liberal

USA
3867 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  10:56:13 AM  Show Profile
good point on the center fire, never thought about.

I already have an AR10 or AR 308 however you want to look at it. But I was thinking about using the AR15 for a light brush gun, but I think if I do that Im going to get 6.5 or 6.8 upper assuming I can still buy one, which I think you can as its gun part not the whole gun.

yeah I have a 4rd for the .308 which I guess 4 is all they make for it.

Edited by - nards444 on 05/08/2013 10:58:20 AM
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nards444
Flaming Liberal

USA
3867 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  11:05:01 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by nmyers

Most, but not all, AR-type rifles are chambered to handle both cartridges safely.

You built it, you should know what the chamber is.

Neal

EDIT: The barrel twist rate is not the same as the chamber. For example, most Rock River Arms AR-type rifles are chambered in ".223 Wylde for .223/5.56mm". If you aren't sure what you have, go by the caliber stamped on the barrel.



caliber says 5.56 nato
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sandwarrior
Advanced Member

USA
5323 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  6:28:16 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by tsr1965

nards444,

#1. 223 Remington, does not equal 5.56x45 NATO. While the external dimensions are similar, the 5.56 casing has slightly more wall thickness.

#2. You can fire ANY 223 Remington in ANY 5.56x45 NATO chamber. It is some of the 5.56x45 NATO, you cannot fire in the 223 Remington chamber.

See, it is not the cartridge dimensions that are differend, externally speaking, but it is the difference in the way the chambers are cut. The 5.56 has a longer leade, to be able to use the 75-90 grain VLD ammunition, in CMP Service Rifle competition. The 223 Remington has a shorter leade.

#3. There are several threads on this topic, over the last several years. The search function, is your friend.

Best



TSR1965,

I would respectfully like to clarify that. The longer leade is so the bullet can get a run at the lands. The M193, M855 and Mk.262 are all loaded to a maximum of 2.260" The heavier bullets with longer ogives, such as the MK.262 would actually require less leade, as the longer ogive requires the bullet to be seated slightly deeper to make the maximum of 2.260".

The last post by nononsense shows the difference in chambers, but not loadings.
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=585753

I will say it's true the Wylde Chamber does give a smoother transition for the bullet than does the true 5.56 Chamber.




Every shot serves a purpose, whether accurate or inaccurate. It will always tell you what you did, and did not do, right. Even if all you have is a fraction of a second to make it, learn from it. So the next one is even better.
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