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 Any Muzzle Loaders Out There?
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RCrosby
Advanced Member

3656 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2017 :  4:14:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have two '70's vintage Thompson Center Arms muzzle loaders; a single shot pistol and a single shot rifle. The names "Renegade and Seneca" come to mind. Not marked on either and I didn't find them at the T/C site.
Both are marked ".45 Cal." and since I have quantities of different diameter balls that fall into that general category I'm wondering what the best diameter ball is for accuracy and ease of loading in these T/C's. I plan to list the balls I have that won't work in these, but would sure hate to let the wrong ones go.
Anyone?

Rob
NRA Life Member

charliemeyer007
Advanced Member

USA
5333 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2017 :  4:29:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The ball and the patch material need to work as a pair.

The Patriot was the pistol. Seneca, Hawken and Cherokee were rifles that could be had in 45 cal.

added .440 round ball is a good place to start.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwixwOaal6XUAhVY92MKHZ9WAvUQFgg9MAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstevespages.com%2Fpdf%2Fthompsoncenter_patriot_supplement.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGZKG2yGCE4gYHVDY3qPMPgvE2JZw&sig2=2RLe1O9qc-_iZWP8DLr1aA

Edited by - charliemeyer007 on 06/04/2017 6:01:04 PM
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iceracerx
Advanced Member

USA
8005 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2017 :  4:57:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You need to check the twist of the rifling to determine if they are rifled for patch and ball or Minie' balls.

Patch and ball rifling is usually rather slow. IE: 1 in 66".

And don't overload the powder charge. 1.5 X caliber is a good place to start for patched balls.

Pedersoli recommends a charge between 30 and 90 grains.

IIRC I got the '1.5 X' data from a 1950's Dixie catalog.
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Zinderbloc
Member

USA
892 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2017 :  7:24:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The T/C Patriot pistol is marked .45 caliber and takes a patched .440 lead ball.

As a powder measure I use an empty .45 Colt cartridge case filled with Pyrodex P.

I just had my two Patriot pistols out at the range this week. FYI neither are marked with the word "Patriot".
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11b6r
Advanced Member

USA
15531 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2017 :  7:28:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Get a manual for free- Customer Service Department at 1-866-730-1614 or email us at tca_customerservice@tcarms.com.

"Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine."
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RCrosby
Advanced Member

3656 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2017 :  7:50:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Appreciate all the responses:
Patriot and Hawken, yes.
First attempt to email TCA failed for "bad address".
Will try again at simply "customerservice@tcarms.com"
Will let you know if that works.
(I had tried "tc_customerservice@tcarms.com|")
Immediate bottom line is that I'm clear to unload all of my .452-459 balls.

Rob
NRA Life Member
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RCrosby
Advanced Member

3656 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2017 :  8:24:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"customerservice@tcarms.com" didn't work either.

Rob
NRA Life Member
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tsr1965
Advanced Member

USA
7836 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2017 :  9:45:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Most likely your rifle, and pistol will have a 1 in 48 twist...it is really not an optimal twist for either a round ball, or a conical. However, round balls can be made to shoot by adjusting the ball and patch combination. The manuals call for a 0.440" round ball, and a 0.015-0.020" patch. I have a Cherokee in 45 caliber, and I slugged the bore to find out the actual dimensions. I run a 0.452 round ball with a very well lubricated 0.007" patch, on top of 75 grains of FFFg Black powder...it puts them in a coffee cup at 100 yards.

Take a look at these auctions on the otherside...
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/BrowseItems.aspx?IncludeSellers=484399

http://www.GunBroker.com/All/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=716063

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andrewsw16
Advanced Member

USA
10803 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2017 :  9:32:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RCrosby

"customerservice@tcarms.com" didn't work either.



Try going right to the source.
http://www.tcarms.com
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penguin
troll

427 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2017 :  1:50:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Verify the gun is marked correctrly. I bought a 50 caliber TC with a 45 caliber barrel marker 50. Needed to drive 50 miles to retirn to Grice in Clearfield who did not believe me until they tried to load it.
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pip5255
Advanced Member

USA
7397 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2017 :  1:43:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.tcarms.com/contact

tired not retired !
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jeffb1911
Senior Member

USA
2099 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2017 :  8:48:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Patriot was the pistol IIRC, and you MUST "cock" the set triggers in order to fire the gun. I think you pull the rear trigger very hard (30-40 lbs IIRC) in order to set the front, then the front is a very light pull.

As far as the rifle, if it is not marked, measure the barrel across the flats. The 13/16" barrels were the Seneca or Cherokee. If 15/16" across the flats it will be a Hawken or Renegade. They were made in 1" across the flats also when they started making the 54 caliber models, so Hawken/Renegade rifles will be find with either 15/16 or 1" barrels. From what I remember all the rifles were rifles in 1 in 48" except for a few 56 Smoothbores and some were done in Round Ball pitch which is 1 turn in 66 inches. But the round ball barrels were longer than normal I think. And the patriot pistol was made for round balls too I think, at least some years. Best bet is to put a patch on the ramrod, and get a pencil and mark as it goes down the bore.

I did just list a T/C Hawken Cougar on the auction side that has the 15/16" barrel, but has stainless fittings.

In GOD we trust-all others get run through NCIC

Please see my auctions:

http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/SellerAuctions.aspx?User=62079
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