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 Social Security Beneficiaries Trustfund Broke!
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serf
Anti Gun Lib

6652 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  4:19:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep work all your life and watch the two party system steal you blind while the politicians resposible walk away laughing at the stupid sheple! Time to burn down the ship to get rid of the rats! Happy New Year!

serf

https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/social-security-beneficiaries-hit-record-61859250

In total, the worker and employer must pay the government 12.4 percent in taxes (on the first $127,200 a worker makes) for the combined OASDI tax. Self-employed Americans pay the entire 12.4 percent directly.

But this is no longer enough, says the Social Security board of trustees, which includes the commissioner of Social Security and the secretaries of the Treasury, Labor and Health and Human Services.

In the past, when Social Security ran surpluses, the federal government loaned the surplus to itself so it could spend it immediately on other government programs.

mogley98
Advanced Member

USA
14264 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  5:01:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Government has issued IOU's for all the cash it has "borrowed" from the system.

Fact is even if left to sit with interest simply not enough has ever been paid in to fund the cost of SS and Medicare.

quote:
Originally posted by serf

Yep work all your life and watch the two party system steal you blind while the politicians resposible walk away laughing at the stupid sheple! Time to burn down the ship to get rid of the rats! Happy New Year!

serf

https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/social-security-beneficiaries-hit-record-61859250

In total, the worker and employer must pay the government 12.4 percent in taxes (on the first $127,200 a worker makes) for the combined OASDI tax. Self-employed Americans pay the entire 12.4 percent directly.

But this is no longer enough, says the Social Security board of trustees, which includes the commissioner of Social Security and the secretaries of the Treasury, Labor and Health and Human Services.

In the past, when Social Security ran surpluses, the federal government loaned the surplus to itself so it could spend it immediately on other government programs.

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droptop
Advanced Member

USA
6057 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  5:18:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lots of things are "broke" and who really cares,,

Does the money show up in my account every month??? Yes.

Will it buy something? Yes

Am I worried it will stop showing up before I die. No

If I was 30 and was a lazy "broke azz" Cliton supporter would I be worried. Yes

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Don McManus
Advanced Member

USA
25503 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  5:54:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
SS funds are used to purchase US Government bonds at a return that has been historically higher than the bonds you and I can buy. The deficit exists because too much has been paid out, not that the funds have been dumped into the general fund or turned into IOUs.


'Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.'
Brad Steele.


'The Constitution that was actually enacted and formally amended creates islands of government powers in a sea of liberty. The judicially redacted constitution creates islands of liberty rights in a sea of governmental powers.'
Randy E. Barnett


CA #3

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wpageabc
Advanced Member

USA
7298 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  6:07:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As long as sanctuary cities and giveaways to illegal and scammers. What do you expect. The leftist politicians have giving it all away for fake votes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99Q7pNAjvg
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gunnut505
Advanced Member

USA
9796 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  6:14:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Remember the flak over the "Social Security Lockbox"?
There never was a lockbox, the money isn't in a special place that only holds payouts for hard working Americans, and the Trillion Dollar Stimulus that O'blammy mandated, along with the other Trillion dollars wasted on bogus shovel-ready infrastructure improvements is just GONE.
SS has to raise "fees" to the millennials and not-yet-retired boomers to pay those of us that had jobs & paid taxes.
'Cuz we're old, dammit!

"Qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit" --OVID

"It never hurts to help!"--EEEK the Cat
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us55840
Advanced Member

USA
30825 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  6:58:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Broke? Why is it ONLY that Social Security and Medicare are two government programs working citizens PAY INTO are broke?

We NEVER HEAR that Food Stamps, Heating assistance, Welfare, Aid to Dependent Children, Immigration Assistance, Medicade, or other FREE GIVEAWAY programs are "broke?"

Fact is, the government is broke and all the 'money' are mearly figures entered into a ledge on some huge computer.


The government has no rights. Only the PEOPLE have rights that empower the government.

This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.
Abraham Lincoln

Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It is they way it is. The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference.

All comments posted here are my opinion as expressed via the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution.

United States Army ~ 1966-1968 USARSUPTHAI 1967-1968
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spasmcreek
Advanced Member

33780 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  7:00:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
shameful...i remember a 60 minutes segment many years ago ..reporter searched for days for the SS files to see what was real THEN..finally found them in one closet sized room with a single big filing cabinet stuffed full and pulled out folder after folder of IOU's for millions and millions $$$$ each....congress critters that voted to ROB the taxpayers should have all their assests SEIZED and sold off, the money going back in the Treasury ..rotten bums
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droptop
Advanced Member

USA
6057 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  7:06:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by us55840



Broke? Why is it ONLY that Social Security and Medicare are two government programs working citizens PAY INTO are broke?

We NEVER HEAR that Food Stamps, Heating assistance, Welfare, Aid to Dependent Children, Immigration Assistance, Medicade, or other FREE GIVEAWAY programs are "broke?"

Fact is, the government is broke and all the 'money' are mearly figures entered into a ledge on some huge computer.



Damm I think this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is right. Only the programs WE pay into.
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remingtonoaks
Advanced Member

USA
15808 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  7:07:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well serf... It was your beloved Democratic party that started stealing from the system to begin with. Are you proud to be a Democrat now?
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beneteau
Advanced Member

7820 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  7:10:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't forget they stole about $700 billion from Medicare to fund Obammycare

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droptop
Advanced Member

USA
6057 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  7:15:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by beneteau

Don't forget they stole about $700 billion from Medicare to fund Obammycare


Adding insult to injury, thanks for reminding me.
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remingtonoaks
Advanced Member

USA
15808 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  7:15:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by droptop

quote:
Originally posted by us55840



Broke? Why is it ONLY that Social Security and Medicare are two government programs working citizens PAY INTO are broke?

We NEVER HEAR that Food Stamps, Heating assistance, Welfare, Aid to Dependent Children, Immigration Assistance, Medicade, or other FREE GIVEAWAY programs are "broke?"

Fact is, the government is broke and all the 'money' are mearly figures entered into a ledge on some huge computer.



Damm I think this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is right. Only the programs WE pay into.



Yep, and it's really really getting old. It's a sad situation
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serf
Anti Gun Lib

6652 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  9:13:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by remingtonoaks

Well serf... It was your beloved Democratic party that started stealing from the system to begin with. Are you proud to be a Democrat now?



Well how many times have The Republicans let it slide when they were in control? We are going to have a dictator here before it's over with! Think The Weimar Republic in 1920's but for us it was central banking and allowing the wolves to guard the henhouse on fiscal responsibility on the Federal budgets.

All President Trump is going to do is get us in a war with China before it's over with and blame it all on the that when we the people get sold out lock.stock and barrel.

serf




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GreatGuns
Advanced Member

Italy
5449 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2017 :  10:44:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by droptop

Lots of things are "broke" and who really cares,,

Does the money show up in my account every month??? Yes.

Will it buy something? Yes

Am I worried it will stop showing up before I die. No

If I was 30 and was a lazy "broke azz" Cliton supporter would I be worried. Yes





I'm sorry to hear you're passing away. At least you know, most don't. So you believe you've only got two years of life left, eh?
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Mobuck
Advanced Member

10494 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2017 :  08:08:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Darn, I had a lot of investments dependant on the $86 per month of SSI I was expecting.

Mobuck<BR>
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Barzillia
Advanced Member

26600 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2017 :  08:30:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by beneteau

Don't forget they stole about $700 billion from Medicare to fund Obammycare






That is not accurate, as far as I know.

Do you have a source ?

"Most people fancy themselves innocent of those crimes of which they cannot be convicted." Seneca

"Hope has two children: anger, and courage." Augustine, Confessions

Der Verzagten aber und Ungläubigen und Greulichen und Totschläger und Hurer und Zauberer und Abgöttischen und aller Lügner, deren Teil wird sein in dem Pfuhl, der mit Feuer und Schwefel brennt; das ist der andere Tod.


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mnrivrat48
Member

USA
959 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2018 :  3:10:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
All President Trump is going to do is get us in a war with China before it's over with and blame it all on the that when we the people get sold out lock, stock and barrel.


Me thinks your crystal ball might be malfunctioning .

WELCOME TO THE NEW WORD ORDER - RESISTANCE IS FUTILE - YOU WILL ASSIMILATE
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serf
Anti Gun Lib

6652 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2018 :  4:04:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mnrivrat48

quote:
All President Trump is going to do is get us in a war with China before it's over with and blame it all on the that when we the people get sold out lock, stock and barrel.


Me thinks your crystal ball might be malfunctioning .



Yeah that's why Japan wants those carrier versions jump F-35 jets!What is that saying? If you want peace prepare for war!Let's see what Trump does next on this.

serf

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/12/25/national/politics-diplomacy/japan-considering-buying-f-35b-fighters-can-operate-helicopter-carriers/

In what could be a major change in Japan’s policy on aircraft carriers, the Defense Ministry is mulling a plan to buy F-35B stealth fighter jets for use on its helicopter carriers, government sources said.

The introduction of F-35Bs, which have short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) capability, will be useful in countering China’s growing maritime assertiveness. They are expected to bolster Japan’s ability to defend far-flung islands in the southwest, where only short runways exist, the sources said Sunday.
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gruntled
Advanced Member

10405 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2018 :  6:27:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Don McManus

SS funds are used to purchase US Government bonds at a return that has been historically higher than the bonds you and I can buy. The deficit exists because too much has been paid out, not that the funds have been dumped into the general fund or turned into IOUs.



Please explain the difference between the bonds & IOUs.
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Don McManus
Advanced Member

USA
25503 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2018 :  1:20:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gruntled

quote:
Originally posted by Don McManus

SS funds are used to purchase US Government bonds at a return that has been historically higher than the bonds you and I can buy. The deficit exists because too much has been paid out, not that the funds have been dumped into the general fund or turned into IOUs.



Please explain the difference between the bonds & IOUs.



A bond pays interest and an IOU does not.

Folks seem to think that the money was simply spent without generating interest. The fact is that the calculation of default include the interest return which, depending upon the year purchased was quite substantial.

Had the interest on those bonds not been calculated into the equation, the fund would have been in default many years ago.


'Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.'
Brad Steele.


'The Constitution that was actually enacted and formally amended creates islands of government powers in a sea of liberty. The judicially redacted constitution creates islands of liberty rights in a sea of governmental powers.'
Randy E. Barnett


CA #3

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gruntled
Advanced Member

10405 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2018 :  6:14:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But where does the money to pay the "bond" come from & why can't an IOU include interest? These "bonds" ARE just IOU's. Neither the principal or "interest" actually exist. They are both unfunded promises that the Treasury is expected to honor.
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Don McManus
Advanced Member

USA
25503 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2018 :  7:09:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gruntled

But where does the money to pay the "bond" come from & why can't an IOU include interest? These "bonds" ARE just IOU's. Neither the principal or "interest" actually exist. They are both unfunded promises that the Treasury is expected to honor.



I don't want to play word games.

The point was that the current balance of the trust fund consists of US Treasury notes. It is documented and tracked, and all excess funds that were put into the trust fund did earn interest that was also documented.

The response was based upon the ignorant statements people have made over the years that money was simply dumped into the general fund. It ended up there, of course, but through the interest earning mechanism of the US Government Bonds. During the 70s and early 80s these bonds generated in excess of 10% per year interest and the current accounts for the SS system were in surplus.

Of course it is manipulation, but there has been one hell of a lot more money paid out by the Social Security System than has been paid in, and there is still a positive balance in the trust fund.

The impending crisis is when the trust fund goes to zero in the near future. It is also a manufactured crisis in the sense that Congress has not issue spending money it doesn't have, yet pretends that there is something magical that will happen when Social Security is in deficit.


'Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.'
Brad Steele.


'The Constitution that was actually enacted and formally amended creates islands of government powers in a sea of liberty. The judicially redacted constitution creates islands of liberty rights in a sea of governmental powers.'
Randy E. Barnett


CA #3

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mnrivrat48
Member

USA
959 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2018 :  07:47:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The start of the big drain on SS funds came under the Johnson administration. He introduced a lot of costly social programs that were being paid for out of SS funds. His reasoning ? He is quoted as saying " I will have them N-----r's voting democratic for 100 years with these programs."




WELCOME TO THE NEW WORD ORDER - RESISTANCE IS FUTILE - YOU WILL ASSIMILATE
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serf
Anti Gun Lib

6652 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2018 :  12:12:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Don McManus

quote:
Originally posted by gruntled

But where does the money to pay the "bond" come from & why can't an IOU include interest? These "bonds" ARE just IOU's. Neither the principal or "interest" actually exist. They are both unfunded promises that the Treasury is expected to honor.



I don't want to play word games.

The point was that the current balance of the trust fund consists of US Treasury notes. It is documented and tracked, and all excess funds that were put into the trust fund did earn interest that was also documented.

The response was based upon the ignorant statements people have made over the years that money was simply dumped into the general fund. It ended up there, of course, but through the interest earning mechanism of the US Government Bonds. During the 70s and early 80s these bonds generated in excess of 10% per year interest and the current accounts for the SS system were in surplus.

Of course it is manipulation, but there has been one hell of a lot more money paid out by the Social Security System than has been paid in, and there is still a positive balance in the trust fund.

The impending crisis is when the trust fund goes to zero in the near future. It is also a manufactured crisis in the sense that Congress has not issue spending money it doesn't have, yet pretends that there is something magical that will happen when Social Security is in deficit.





If the power of making money was not given away to NWO Central Bankers and We The people controlled it via our Congress, like our Founding fathers stipulated in Our Constitution than we would not be where we are!

We have been sold out to money changers and Sorry politicians like ever other government invented by mankind in the past.

serf




Edited by - serf on 01/29/2018 12:12:53 PM
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Wild Bill Kelso
New Member

81 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2018 :  6:03:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The United States has been running a deficient since 1970.

We've been broke for 48 years, and you're just waking up to that fact now ?

Cross your fingers and say your prayers and maybe social security will go broke after we're dead - somewhere around 2040 or 2045.

Both parties are to blame

Giving our blood and treasure away to second and third world countries who should have been left on their knees

Like him or not the only guy who is trying to make things right is Trump

So who who do you blame Trump or the seven presidents who preceded him
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droptop
Advanced Member

USA
6057 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2018 :  7:40:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Social security is in better shape than people believe.

Social Security has collected approximately $2.8 trillion more in payroll taxes and interest than have been paid out since tax collection began in 1937.

This surplus is referred to as the Social Security Trust Fund.[3] The fund contains non-marketable Treasury securities backed "by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government". The funds borrowed from the program are part of the total national debt of $18.9 trillion as of December 2015.[4]

Due to interest, the Trust Fund will continue increasing through the end of 2020, reaching a peak of approximately $2.9 trillion. Social Security has the legal authority to draw amounts from other government revenue sources besides the payroll tax, to fully fund the program, while the Trust Fund exists. However, payouts greater than payroll tax revenue and interest income over time will liquidate the Trust Fund by 2035, meaning that only the ongoing payroll tax collections thereafter will be available to fund the program.


Social Security is a pay as you go program. Money TODAY that a 65 year old has been paying for the last 50 years has been paying those retiring in 1965 (+/-).

Huge adjustments HAVE BEEN MADE in the amount paid and increased when people can retire. Someone pay this comparatively HUGE Amount today, is going to paid the comparatively Huge amount of Social Security paid out to today's retirees.

Don't know how it could be much better,, considering folks all over the world are living in poverty and if they had SOCIAL SECURITY it's GONE,, take Venezuela for example.

Want to have a comfortable retirement,, do something about it yourself,, like,, investing and saving.

Quit thing you're entitled to a wonderful and happy retirement,, paid totally by the government.

Believe in government for retirement is like believing in a FAIRY TAIL.

Edited by - droptop on 01/30/2018 7:42:15 PM
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casper1947
Senior Member

USA
1155 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2018 :  8:02:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Helvering v. Davis, 301 U.S. 619 (1937)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvering_v._Davis

"The proceeds of both the employee and employer taxes are to be paid into the Treasury like any other internal revenue generally, and are not earmarked in any way. The Social Security Act of 1935 does not contravene the Tenth Amendment, as Congress is permitted to spend for the general welfare."

It is wikipedia but seems consistent with other sources. The only other SCOTUS case I found was Flemming v. Nestor, 363 U.S. 603 (1960), I could have missed something.

As for the Treasury Notes (IOUs) does anyone know where the treasury get the money to pay them off?

SPOILER: From the people that payed the money IN in first place, or at least those the pay Income Tax.

Wasn't it the "Middle Class Tax CUT" that started TAXING a portion of one's Social Security?
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