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 Shotguns - where do we go from here ?
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Wild Bill Kelso
New Member

81 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2018 :  10:16:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So where does the shotgun industry go from here ?, longer shells ?, marketing focus on different gauges ?, shotshell loads that do tricks ?, chokes that do the impossible ?, radical changes in practical design concepts ?, introduction of materials that are game changers ?, quantum advancements in visual sighting apparatus ?

Industry seems to be trapped in thinking within the box, the only thing that's caught my attention as of late that's innovative is the Benelli Super Vinci.

Industry take note !

Here's a few ideas -

RE longer shells, quoting my friend Quinten "why do I shoot a 3-1/2" 12 ?, because they don't make a 4".

Emphasis on different gauges - Winchester tried introducing the 14 GA back in the 1960s. Mean while else where in the world 24 & 32 gauge guns do have a following - components for those are readily available.

As for shotshells that do tricks - how about programable loads ? Imagine being able to change the effective pattern of your shell to suit the situation at the touch of a button !

How about programmable chokes ? Imagine single barrel repeaters being able to change the effective pattern of your shell to suit the situation. At the touch if a button !

As for radical changes in practical design - how about a complete rethink of how the shotgun and human body interact ? Years ago I saw an experimental survival rifle that attached to the jacket and was held extended out over the arm. That could really improve stability for accuracy plus remove "felt recoil" from the equation.

As for new materials and manufacturing processes - introduce ceramic and fiberglass in portions of the firearm that haven't been previously considered. As for new processes - what about 3-D printing.

And as for advancements in visual shooting references - how about the introduction of lasers & RADAR that render optimum "firing solutions" for precision targeting.

If anybody wants to seriously talk about some of my ideas - reach out to me !

Wild Bill Kelso

I think it's time to bring shotgun shooting into the 21st century

mnrivrat48
Senior Member

USA
1020 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2018 :  11:10:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A 360 degree ball jointed barrel with a heat seeking tracker that auto fires when it locks onto the target.

WELCOME TO THE NEW WORD ORDER - RESISTANCE IS FUTILE - YOU WILL ASSIMILATE
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fugawe
Senior Member

1411 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2018 :  10:49:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How about a sight like a red dot that 'sees' your target and computes lead. You place the dot on your target and pull the trigger. The dot could also go from green to red as the target goes out of range, and it could talk to the gun and continuously adjust the choke as the range increases.

If a man speaks in the forest and there is no woman to hear him.....is he still wrong?
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Wild Bill Kelso
New Member

81 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2018 :  5:31:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK -.I'm glad I gave a couple of you something to chuckle about.

But beyond the 4" shells and mention of 14, 24 and 32 gauge - everything else I mentioned exits.

I work with the military and guns that do tricks are a reality - the best part is you've paid for them.

So I think some of that technology should flow down to the private sector.

There'd be little to no R & D costs, just development costs to adapt to sporting arms.

Last time I was at SHOT Show someone was demonstrating the possibility of 1,000 yard accuracy for sportsmen - where do you think that came from.

One of my favorite toys are digital rifle scopes, what they are capable of is nothing short of astounding - and those are available on the civilian market place.

So yes, perhaps what I suggested is a bit far fetched, but well-heeled sportsmen won't blink an eye if it gives them the advantage.

Again what I'm talking about is not the future, it's the here and now

And if you really think you hold the high ground on this subject hold your flintlocks tight and be prepared to fade into history.

...

I recall one of the statements in one of my engineering text books - the American Indian doomed themselves to oblivion by attaining a plateau of 25,000 years of non- history.

They too felt confident in their tools & ways and were pushed aside by advancing technology.

I look forward to the future with nostalgia.



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Ditch-Runner
Advanced Member

USA
15519 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2018 :  5:37:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the way so much new technological advances makes every thing so much smaller compared to a few years ago
how about a GPS guided / Laser guided , slug or bullet ? that does not seem to unrealistic ( but expensive to the point of not being produced for the public )
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Ricci Wright
Advanced Member

USA
4587 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2018 :  6:40:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tech is just fine but it seems to me that a lot of shooters like golfers and fisherman want to buy their skills instead of working hard to develop them.

"Fight like the third monkey on the ramp of Noah's Ark"
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mrmike08075
Cancer Fighter

USA
7744 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2018 :  7:01:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Caseless ammo - electronic ignition - bullpup configurations...

Ability to select between manual cycle and semiautomatic cycle

A more modular platform allowing plug and play customization

Exotic weight saving materials

Squeeze bores - discarding sabot sub munitions that allow rifle like accuracy out to 200 yes

A usable and ergonomic combo gun that combines an FN 5.7 and a caseless 20 gauge shotgun into a compact and useable PDW

ammo cassettes for caseless rounds instead of the current common methods

Mike

What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.

Nothing gold can stay. Nature's first green is gold. Her hardest hue to hold. Her early leafs flower. But only so an hour. Than leaf subsides to leaf. So eden sank to grief. So dawn goes down today. Nothing gold can stay. (Robert Frost)
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wpageabc
Advanced Member

USA
7541 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2018 :  7:31:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My 1918 Ithaca sxs looks very similar to most of todays versions. The subtle changes in the last 100 years mentioned are nice.

We certainly are do for some revolutionary breakthrough. Where is John Moses Browning when you need him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99Q7pNAjvg
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11b6r
Advanced Member

USA
15898 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2018 :  8:50:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The only reason for a 3 inch shell is to accommodate the bulk of black powder and felt wads- which are no longer used. "High Brass" shells HAD a higher brass head to cover the paper (and prevent powder from burning thru the paper hull).

How about we just drop the engineering left over from paper hulls and black powder, and re-engineer the shotshell using today's engineering? Modern propellants, shot buffers, priming systems- the works. Round shot are round because you get round shot when you let drops of molten lead fall into water. Are round shot the most effective?

"Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine."
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Wild Bill Kelso
New Member

81 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2018 :  10:25:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow

A few of us are having some fun with this topic

A quick response to a question about spherical shot being the most efficient - actually it isn't. It's convenient to manufacture and relatively inexpensive - for aerodynamic efficiency think 'boat tail spritzer' and yes they're out there too.

BTW the amortized cost to kill an enemy these days is around $70,000, which is a huge cost savings as compared to that incurred during the Vietnam Nam War which was around $400,000 when adjusted for buying power (1970 vs 2018) would be $2,615,639.26

The most provocative comment so far - can you imagine what John Moses Browning would come up with now
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HandLoad
Advanced Member

15536 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2018 :  07:26:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Annular slugs with annular ball valve within, closed for launch, open for flight - they already have these for tank rounds. Longer range!

Put the Semi-Auto machinery and generous magazine within the Stock, to lighten the Forward part of the gun, points easier/would have less polar moment of inertia.

Love my CVA Electra Electrical trigger! Put one on the Shotty!


Laudate Nomen!
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bearman49709
Junior Member

392 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2018 :  9:05:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 11b6r

The only reason for a 3 inch shell is to accommodate the bulk of black powder and felt wads- which are no longer used. "High Brass" shells HAD a higher brass head to cover the paper (and prevent powder from burning thru the paper hull).

How about we just drop the engineering left over from paper hulls and black powder, and re-engineer the shotshell using today's engineering? Modern propellants, shot buffers, priming systems- the works. Round shot are round because you get round shot when you let drops of molten lead fall into water. Are round shot the most effective?



Most black powder shotgun shells were 2 1/2"-2 9/16".
The 3" shell was made for smokeless powder loads.
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204targetman
Advanced Member

USA
3211 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2018 :  9:12:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the more years go by. the more I appreciate a good single shot shotgun anymore. the simplicity is kinda nice.
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204targetman
Advanced Member

USA
3211 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2018 :  9:17:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
and I never thought I would say it. but I use three and a half inch 12 gauge shells to turkey hunt. ive only taken one turkey that i actually needed one of those monsters for. but i load them up every year.
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Alpine
Advanced Member

12083 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2018 :  10:58:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My experience is just the opposite. Nothing replaces practice.

I was mediocre at best. Then I went through 40,000 rounds and practiced 5 days a week at trap.

Finding a gun that fits, and lots of practice, makes more difference than any gadget you add to the firearm.





Your mileage may vary.
“Every time a system is made foolproof - a new class of fool emerges.”
Prod Harris



"If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."

"Profanity is the linguistics of the inarticulate."

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat."
Albert Einstein

In a follow-up story, local police are considering charging Mr. Lapointe with felony stupid. The usual additional charge of Ignorant in a Smart Zone will not be applied, due to the rural location of the incident, according to a police spokesman.

"The two most important rules in a gunfight are: Always cheat and Always win." Clint Smith

I come from a State that raises corn and cotton and cock-leburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me.
- Willard D. Vandiver

The burden of proof lies on the plaintiff.
- Legal maxim
"The trouble with Communism is that eventually you run out of other people's money?"
Margaret Thatcher 1976

To what level of stupidity do you want to address?

"This democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not."
~Ayn Rand, from her book Atlas Shrugged
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fideau
Advanced Member

USA
11952 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2018 :  11:07:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A single barrel hammerless 28 Gauge with rib for under $300.

Jim

"This ain't Dodge City. And you ain't Bill Hickok."
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mrmike08075
Cancer Fighter

USA
7744 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2018 :  01:49:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Belt fed 10 gauge firing 4" shells mixed buck and ball and copper wire coil for marine recon -a crew served dealer of death...

Mike

What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.

Nothing gold can stay. Nature's first green is gold. Her hardest hue to hold. Her early leafs flower. But only so an hour. Than leaf subsides to leaf. So eden sank to grief. So dawn goes down today. Nothing gold can stay. (Robert Frost)
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Wild Bill Kelso
New Member

81 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2018 :  6:46:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To Alpine, I agree completely.

Find a gun that fits you and learn how to shoot it

My original point being what direction can the manufacturers go in order to bolster shotgun sales:.over the top shells ?; exotic gauges ?; or super high tech ?

Each direction would have its supporters.

I personally am intrigued with exotic gauges, that could lead to a design genesis.

Think about it, when it comes to rifle cartridges in comparison It seemed like we were witnessing the "cartridge of the month club" there for a while.

As for the high tech stuff, wouldn't be my cup of tea - but then again neither are tactical guns

Turkey hunters I think would be most inclined to adopt programmable shells and chokes - you never know what's going to happen with them. Sometimes they practically put their beak in your muzzle, sometimes they hang out there at 80 yards mocking us

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