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 Neck die question
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hadjii
Member

USA
720 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  5:17:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Will a non-bushing style neck die help extend case life, or do I need to go to a bushing style for that? The reason I ask is because I'm getting neck splits after about 4 loading from my 300 rcm. I can buy a non-bushing rcbs neck die for $26. Redding will make me a bushing style neck die for $245. Thank You

nononsense
Moderator

10019 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  5:35:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hadjii,

You can use the standard neck sizing die (non-bushing) for your project. The bushing will not prevent the necks from splitting. Redding is getting too big for their britches with prices like that!

You might consider annealing the necks just in case they might be work hardened. My guess is that the brass lot you got is just lower quality.

Best.








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hadjii
Member

USA
720 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  5:49:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No nonsense, I've only got one choice in brass, and that's Hornady. I tried my first experiment with annealing with some 300 rcm brass. Got em way too hot, so I tossed em all. Think I got the annealing thing figured out now, so yeah, I'll be annealing every 2nd loading now, and see how that works. I have a Redding bushing style neck die for my 264 win mag, but it didn't cost $245. I like it, but don't know about spending $245 for one. I think I'll try the rcbs for $26 first. Thanks nononsense.
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nononsense
Moderator

10019 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2018 :  06:22:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hadjii,

quote:
I've only got one choice in brass, and that's Hornady.


Yes and that's part of the problem. Hornady can, on occasion show some aberrations in the manufacturing of their brass. I firmly believe that it comes down to time and money where some steps are minimized when they should be paid attention to. In your situation, annealing the necks and a small length of the shoulder, to the proper temperature.

When you aneal for yourself, be sure to do it in a dimly lit room so you can see the temp change and color change. Otherwise, use a product such as Tempilaq:

http://www.tempil.com/tempilaq-indicating-liquids/

Select the proper range of temperatures and have fun.

Some of my benchrest friends are telling me that the neck sizing dies produce straighter ammunition than the bushing dies...take it for what it's worth. I use the standard neck sizing dies and got rid of the bushing dies.

Enjoy!










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hadjii
Member

USA
720 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2018 :  11:21:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hadjii

No nonsense, I've only got one choice in brass, and that's Hornady. I tried my first experiment with annealing with some 300 rcm brass. Got em way too hot, so I tossed em all. Think I got the annealing thing figured out now, so yeah, I'll be annealing every 2nd loading now, and see how that works. I have a Redding bushing style neck die for my 264 win mag, but it didn't cost $245. I like it, but don't know about spending $245 for one. I think I'll try the rcbs for $26 first. Thanks nononsense.

You give great advice no nonsense. I'll take your advice and stick with the standard neck dies, but if I'm brutally honest with myself, I'll never be a good enough shooter to verify the difference between bushing and standard neck die accuracy. Thanks again.

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243winxb
Junior Member

USA
239 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2018 :  10:32:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
https://www.forsterproducts.com/resources/custom-machining-service/

Forester FL die adjustments. CUSTOM NECK HONING OF FORSTER FULL LENGTH SIZING OR NECK SIZING DIE
We custom hone the inside neck diameter by using a diamond stoning process. We enlarge the inside diameter to your specification to prevent over-sizing of the case neck due to thick neck walls. You may require this service for multiple reasons: 1) If you use some brands of brass cases which have thicker neck walls. 2) If you do not intend to outside neck turn case necks that have thickened after repeated firings. Please specify desired inside neck diameter. Note: 1) No more than .008#8243; stock removal from your existing die neck diameter is possible. 2) Honing is done in increments of one half thousandth of an inch (.0005#8243;), meaning that your specified inside diameter must be either.XXX0#8243; or .XXX5#8243;.
$12.00 plus actual return shipping cost & insurance Please allow 1-3 weeks.


OR hone out the FL die you currently own.

Or outside neck turn your brass to fit the FL die, without an expander.


Edited by - 243winxb on 03/17/2018 10:37:12 AM
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Ambrose
Senior Member

2387 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2018 :  10:58:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With our conventional dies, the necks are squeezed down too much and then expanded to the approximate right size. In other words, we overwork the necks. The collet die would eliminate half of that. I am not sure if this would be helpful for the .300 RCM but Lee makes collet dies that squeeze the neck against a mandrel. I doubt that Lee makes one for the .300 RCM but they might and they're cheap. I have them for several different cartridges. I can't prove they help with split necks since I haven't done the necessary comparative tests, but it makes sense to me that they would.
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charliemeyer007
Advanced Member

USA
5557 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2018 :  11:41:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use a q-tip with Lee case lube on the inside of the neck when sizing with regular dies. 4 firings seems like short case life to me, worth spending the effort to figure it out.
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hadjii
Member

USA
720 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  11:14:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
243winxb, that is an interesting option. I'm going to make an assumption that to figure out how much I would like it honed, I would want to remove the expander and size a case to first see what the outside diameter is after being resized. Then measure the outside diameter of a loaded round, and from the difference of the two dimensions, make a determination of how much to hone.

I actually thought that would be a good idea beforehand, but didn't even realize that was something I could get done. I think I'll go resize one straightaway to check the dimensions. Thank you 243winxb for that most useful bit of information.
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Okie743
Senior Member

USA
1544 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2018 :  08:36:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've had new case necks split sometimes on the 2nd firing even with neck sized only brass and it was the brass lot itself. (and the gun chamber was ok)

You will probably have to try annealing the brass to reduce the chance of split necks. Most generally when I encountered such it was Winchester brass and most generally I like Winchester brass. (it was the brass lot not annealed good)


Edited by - Okie743 on 03/26/2018 08:36:48 AM
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