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 WW 2 german handgun
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NAPA
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2003 :  9:44:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a german handgun that appears to be from ww2. Can anyone help me identify what it is and its value?
left barrel markings: DEUTSCHE WERKE WERK ERFURT
right barrel markings: ORTGIES PATENT
underside of barrel: 200112 GERMANY
SLIDE THE BARREL TO COCK THE GUN, RIGHT SIDE EJECTION
EJECTION HOUSING SAYS CAL 7.65 M/M
This gun has no grips or clip. I would like to locate some.
I am a novice gun collecter would greatly appreciate any info on this
weapon. Thanks NAPA

Edited by - NAPA on 10/31/2003 07:29:43 AM

p3skyking
Advanced Member

USA
19102 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2003 :  10:17:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's pre-WWII. 1919-26 or so. You will find it listed under Ortgies.
Very nice little weapons.

No screws. Do not attempt to remove grips without knowing how, you WILL break them.

Non-military, all were sold commercially.

A man who starts imagining that others think good because he does is simply out of his mind
It behooves one to be wary when among strangers and not to trust too much L'Amour
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

15732 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2003 :  11:57:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mark Christian is a authority on the Ortgies pistols. He has studied them extensively and owns a number of examples.
Since he's on vacation, I took the liberty of retrieving some of his older threads concerning them. Once he get's back, I'm sure he be able to go into even greater detail regarding them.




"Another Ortgies surfaces! These are my favorite of all the German pocket pistols. Your .380 pistol is less than 2000 units away from my own .380 pistol's serial number. In that range all examples I've seen with original stocks (grips if you must) have the H-O emblem rather than the stylized lion from Deutsch Wereke (got it right this time Snowman!) All examples I've observed with original magazines are marked as your is and stamped with the H-O symbol on the lower right hand portion of the magazine. There were some manual safety versions produced in .380 and these also used conventional screws for the stocks. These were manufacturered near the end production are VERY rare and seldom encountered. Exactly why these features were added is unknown since the other production pistols did very nicely without them. If your pistol lacks these features it is quite clearly an earlier production version.
Despite years of trying, I have yet to find a reliable source for dating these pistols by serial number. It is known that the .380's did not go into production until around 1922 and production ended about four years later (.32 production also ended) when .25 ACP became the sole Ortgies caliber available. You simply don't find these .380's around very often (I looked for years to get mine) and examples in better than average shape are rare. You make no mention of condition but a typical .380 would retail in the $200 range. Most of these pistols were carried on a dayly basis for personal protection so they show considerable wear to the finish as well as pitting from persperation. I've been collecting these pistols for years and I'm still scrambling for any information I can locate. I wish I could be of more help to you. Do you know how to take the pistol apart? It can be tricky!"



"I am afraid that at this time I have no means to indentify Ortgies pistols production dates. It is known however that production of the "vest pocket" 6.35mm (.25 ACP) pistols ended in around 1928 and your pistol, with its serial number near the 180,000 range, is a later production gun. Ortgies himself was thought to have produced around 15,000 pistols under his own name using the samemogram on the grip medallions (all in .32 ACP) and Deutsche Werke made perhaps another 225,000 in 3 calibers. I own several Ortgies pistols and none have a serial number above 141,000. Although these Ortgies pistols are rather common- particularlly the .25- examples in excellent or better condition are quite scare and will command a large premium over those typically encountered. These were top of the line self defese pistols and many people carried them on a daily basis with little concern to maintaining their exterior cndition and most Ortgies which we see today show considerable wear to the finish as well as some pitting. Brand new in 1924 your pistol retailed for $7.
A strong .25 ACP Ortgies with excellent bluing, no rust, no pitting, a bright bore, and fine walnut grips with a monogram that is not dented or damaged (people tend to pound and pry on the monograms when they can't figure out how to remove the grip panels) would retail in the $300 to $350 range in todays market. The .32 ACP pistols are slightly rarer and worth a bit more and the seldom encountered .380's will bring an even higher price. I hope this information helps you but the full story on the Ortgies pistols may never be known.
Interestingly enough I just returned from a local auction where I purchased yet another Ortgies pistol, this one in .32 ACP. Rufe-Snow also pointed out a typo I made in my first post, which I have now corrected. Thank you snowman. I was going out the door to the auction when I wrote that first piece and had no time to proof read it, although there was clearly no valid excuse for such a mistake! He Dog, I have found that most of these pistols (not just Ortgies)function much better using European loaded ammunition rather than than USA production. I am not sure why, but I believe the Euro ammo is loaded hotter and Fiocchi is my ammo of choice for these pistols. "
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p3skyking
Advanced Member

USA
19102 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2003 :  08:23:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For grips and magazine, go to:

<www.gunpartscorp.com>

A man who starts imagining that others think good because he does is simply out of his mind
It behooves one to be wary when among strangers and not to trust too much L'Amour
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