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 585 HE Continued.......
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2015 :  05:05:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE
in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock.
Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
The scope rail is a piccatiny,. if you need long range work.





The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole
Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.

About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
is a huge job needing special jigs, etc, Not really, just use one for a jig
with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed



Ed Hubel

hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2015 :  06:43:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields.
On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down
and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom section of
weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight.
Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight
like a compact UTG sight...



If we have a welded up Enfield rear bridge, then we can use sight
like on this gun a guy is doing. Has a rosewood laminate stock.
He will have it checkered, sanded, with fancy finish.



Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by
a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb
stock, handles recoil great... Ed




More about 585 BB short case for lever guns, pistols,AR Uppers,
Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70.
One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with
Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel,
to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case
that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet
Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.
Or rolling block rifles and pistols....Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 12/25/2015 :  3:56:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is a picture from the back of a big Lawton action that
our 585HE fits in nice. Scope rail on there is tapered
for long range shooting.



Here is what our wildcatter buddy is making from our
585HE brass to see how they look and experiment with.
He is getting reamers, dies, and gun setup first for the 375.





In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.
By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....
Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site. Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2016 :  3:39:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''..
That is neat term , and very glad that folks are catching the big bore fever.

Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized
bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns.
I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat
bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.



Another picture of the 585 HE one of our guys put in the MPI stock..



Here is another pic of our guys 24ga FH in the NEF




On straight sided cases like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander
die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always
felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight
roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the
bullet or slug, shortens case life.

So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of
of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small
amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads,
with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less
work that has to be done in the press ... Ed




Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2016 :  03:01:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun case, holding
a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with.
This one with light slug supposed to do over 2000 fps.




Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN.
Known as, Rocky Mtn Rifles, video on Youtube of them testing our
585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are
shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vzQjRGfT1A

Allan and Grant Swan in Australia are building 585HE for a guy,
the second they built. First one killed the buff pictured earlier .
AHR and Vestals will make folks here in US a 585 HE.
Here is another view of a Lawton action big enough for 585HE..




Here is picture of Rossi SS with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it,
chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, to do testing in a light rifle
with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to
put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got plenty of cases Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2016 :  11:02:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is picture of a great old time 8bore double.
I like those old outside hammer, big bore guns.



The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest, that we
we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked
in them like .585" bore for 585HE and 24ga FH.. One that is close
that we have, is the Magtech.

Well the guys have found one that is super strong lockup and looks
real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel,
soon be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH, the little brother of the 585HE.

We told company if they did them with NEF style, rifled, heavy slug barrel,
for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.




Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that Bret and Darrel in Minn
set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job.. Ed



Here is picture from the rear of the Enfield we mounted the short Weaver
rail piece on. It is mounted in the sight pocket that the actions have;
Can hold scope ring or a rear peep sight like UTG makes.. Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2016 :  12:36:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We will have arrived when we have this big bore in our back yard,
Kind of a neat suppressor,




Here is folder shotgun guys set up as 24ga FH.




Here is another view of what we feel is a nearly perfect
break action. Guy is making a strong 24ga FH with it.




Here is picture of a 585HE MRC PH a guy set up..




Here is picture of our shorter 585 BB for leverguns, etc,
with a variety of bullets..Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2016 :  4:49:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.



Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old days
for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases



Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in..
It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle mounted it on the bolt
further bac, so the port could be lengthened for our long case.
Needs polishing and blueing, scope rail added.



Here is another picture of the 585HE with great looking stock.
Nice looking wood. Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2016 :  01:43:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.




Here is another view of the great camo job on the
585HE Enfield, a top view. Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2016 :  11:06:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote




Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.

It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading,

by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a

Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported

the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us, through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB.






That action similar to Lawton we had and neighbor got, that won the King Of The

2 Mile shoot at Whittington, with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,

from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right.

He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..

Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.






Here is picture of a case a Trex owner made using our 585 brass, by putting

a piece of 11/16 tubing ,cut a piece 2/10 of an inch long with a tube cutter chamfered

the cut side a bit and tapped it on the case down to the belt with the brass pipe

and fireformed it in the T Rex chamber.......Made a perfect fitting case.

Cut our brass to 3" to fit shorter trex specs. He was out of brass

and couldn't find more, so he invented his own. And our rim was big

enough so his extractor still worked ok....His original Trex case base is .685"

and our rim and belt on first case run, is .655" diameter, and base ahead

of the belt on unfired cases .631" and the brass sleave pushed up tight to the

belt just takes up that little difference. Ed.






Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2016 :  03:56:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

We have heard that fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, is working

with Bertram in making a run of the full length 12ga From Hell cases.

Drawn 12ga long cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims.

Any wanting to get some, and get in on the run, contact Bertram

at the email ----- b.bertram1@bigpond.com ......





Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal.......

.375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets.

Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,

Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms

muzzle brake. Lawton Action. Lethal Precision his own gunsmith shop, will make

these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..


Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target,

a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.

The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid was superb, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps).






Here is 585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy Varmint Stock. These are super strong.

The butts of these can easily be weighted. Couple guys doing them....... Ed










Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2016 :  03:25:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan

Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.




Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering

for our case as it came from production line,.




I like Hogue stocks, but they aren't made for singleshots.

We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and 585HE.

Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted

a Hogue 1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and

handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,





Here is picture of 585 case in the Lawton bolt, and the wildcat

375s and others made from our cases, work in bolt also. Ed




Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2017 :  5:57:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.


Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
published in Oct, now out for sale,




We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made by necking down our 585 HE.
The others couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. It has different
shoulder taper, length, neck length, improved over the others...Got a bunch
guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. The 2 mile
shoot last year really got the interest booming for 375 necked from our case,

Here's how, size and seat 375 HE, one simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed
A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.

I do primer work separate, not in the press. SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.

When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight.

So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,

Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread,
reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,

After priming, loading in the powder charge, we carefully start(boat tail makes it easy)
bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating
bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.

These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice
bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies.
Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.

OVER 900 375HE cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another
bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.

All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2017 :  10:49:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is picture of one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got in

Africa with our 24ga FH he did on a NEF, in 2nd picture








Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top that

are set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behind

from our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600 on

another bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere,

We also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting with

lighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700,

Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders needed

to get that, and have info where to get powders. Reamer prints are

at reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2017 :  05:18:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing 585 HE

they built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 from

ultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel would be

over 2900, 14000 ft lbs with full load..





Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.

Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is 400gr bullet.




Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.

So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600.




Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die,

test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs.

When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guys

Soon will have 408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,

Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out for

our bigger case .Ed



Ed Hubel
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iceracerx
Advanced Member

USA
8012 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2017 :  4:49:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What's the expected effective range of the 416 HE Target?

EDIT: Thanks Nono! Give me all the info you've got. I'll eat it with a spoon. Great info (something that most of us don't have to consider) on the 'angle of the rail'. Fascinating topic.

I'd sure like to have a beer (or Coke or Ice Tea) with Ed since we're in the same state (and I wanted to touch off the 12GAFH years ago, but those days are behind me). Might be fun to run into you at a match too!

EDIT2: A quick google search for K2oM shows that Berger didn't waste any time advertising the results! Plenty to read up on.

As you may have suspected, when I used 'target' in the same sentience as 'effective range', I was curious about the target distance and accuracy requirements.

Edited by - iceracerx on 03/17/2017 9:35:53 PM
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nononsense
Moderator

9958 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2017 :  6:35:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
iceracerx,

'expected effective range' is the bugaboo here. We would have to define 'effective' to be sure that we cover exactly what you want to know. This is not meant to be a dance around answer but a truthful explanation.

Most of the large capacity cartridges Ed is discussing in the .375, .408, .416 and .458 are meant to be used in the King of 2 Miles competition. There are some Ultra Long Range matches in California, of all places but the usual contingency consists of locals. Now that everyone is all worked up about the K2oM, the race for the next big cartridges and high BC bullet is underway.

The obvious advantage goes to last year's winners who were able to utilize an experimental bullet supplied by Berger because Bryan Litz was on that team. No other individual or team had access to that secret bullet. The rest of us had to make due with what was commercially available, which is not bad, but it sure wasn't what Berger came up with!

The numbers I'm working with indicate that 2,500 yards is just about the end of the line for supersonic velocities. However, I'm sure that some will struggle through the transonic and subsonic regions just to prove a point. This amounts to 224 FEET of drop with a 300 yard zero and 23 FEET of drift in a mathematical 10 mph breeze. This requires a large amount of angle in the rail then some very specialized (expensive) rings by Ivey. Add in scopes with the most adjustments available also.

The limiters in this game are Horsepower, Barrel Length and Quality of glass. You don't worry about barrel life or the cost of the best optics because without both you are simply an also-ran. Horsepower is a given. There is no choice here, somewhere around 160 to 200+ grains per case will get you going.

Anyway, that's more than you asked but I got carried away...

Best.









Edited by - nononsense on 03/18/2017 07:14:56 AM
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iceracerx
Advanced Member

USA
8012 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2017 :  09:44:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nononsense





Holy Bizots Batman! That's a thing of beauty. I wish I'd designed it, and I would have if asked!!! If you ever need an old CAD jockey/Design Eng just ask. WOW

Was this mount done by a Mr. Ivy?

Edited by - iceracerx on 03/18/2017 3:26:34 PM
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nononsense
Moderator

9958 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2017 :  5:20:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
iceracerx,

Yes, Ivey Shooting. He makes 4 versions based on scope ring diameter ranging from $695.00 to $745.00/set.

http://iveyshooting.com/index.php?id_category=12&controller=category

Best.








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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2017 :  04:53:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I told them make 416 about 525 gr G7 of .600

and Ill get you case to start it at 3800 or so,

be transonic past 4000yds, in a non bmg

action, in 50 lb limit, Hence the 416 HSM


Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases
necked, 2 on left, and then formed in hydro die... Ed




Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
Holds over 280 gr ball powder under bullet. The
3.6" case can hold about 250gr under bullet.. In picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.

416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and be under 50 lbs.
A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.



Here is picture of the 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..





Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, ,
Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes,
PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..

Here are final specs for 416 HE.
Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" ,
length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed

Ed Hubel
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nononsense
Moderator

9958 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2017 :  08:22:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ed,

Have any of you made a decision on the throat configuration yet? I would 'assume' bore rider but I seem to read that some are still hung up on the jam rather than jump theory. I would guess that jam would be detrimental to whichever lathe turned bullets you choose to shoot.

Thanks!








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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2017 :  8:14:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is working out for us, top speed to have bore rider

section way out in the bore, a centered fit in

the lands, with less bullet down in powder space.

Some bullets have tapered area behind rider section leading into

the taper of the throat with minimum to no jump.

Lot of guys say that is most accurate. CEBs are supposed to

be shotthat way, but they are not out with longer freebore

that I like for speed. Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2017 :  9:13:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..



Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original
BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have
enough thickness in the sides to handle high pressure,
in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting
work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.
We have lots of 585s, 375HEs, 416 HEs, 408 HEs.....
And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.



Here's comparison of 416 target cases, 1st 416 HE, have whole bunch.
Second is model of what I'd have made on medium machine, if I could,
the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of 230gr..
Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg
cases, And if had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 ..




Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul
Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in
375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very similiar to 375HE )...
It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide.

Applied Ballistics shooter Mitch Fitzpatrick just hit 3 of 5 at 3520 yards,
weekend 10-13th at Valdina Ranch , west of San Antonio.
Also used the 375 LM case similar to our 375 HE
Great shooting at the 2017 World's Longest Shot Challenge. Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2017 :  11:54:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on
last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....


The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,

has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,

on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..




More info out now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case
proportions, too sharp of shoulders, too fast of powders...........
and debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2017 :  02:43:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made from our 585 HE big belted case. Ed




Here is picture of 375 HE left, 416 HE next, 416 HSM right..




Here, tentative specs, 416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,





A 375 HE, with Lawton action, bunch being done with those .....



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 10/09/2017 :  12:04:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A 585 HE ...shot with moderate heavy load......

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/20404363_470558053312276_3772630570509533184_n.mp4


Here is a 375 HE target gun set up, by Asteroid Precision...




Here is video of it being tested... And with a 350gr bullet about 3450-3475,

bolt opened easily with one finger...And he's just getting started

and is checking on better powder, Ed..



https://www.facebook.com/AsteroidPrecision/videos/298031133934093/?fref=gs&dti=321360231548869&hc_location=group

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Junior Member

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2017 :  5:45:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is recap simple setup to get faster loads with 12ga sabots

& slugs, Example using break actions...., reaming chamber

in a 12ga break action to 3.5" with a 3.5" 12ga reamer, that isn't

something needing special order, and use 3.5" plastic cases , or

get 3.5" brass cases made. With mag shotgun primers and

our slower powder loads you can get a quarter more speed,

which gives 50% more eneregy...


585 Hubel Express video, 190ft/lbs recoil, heavy load, gun little light.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyS9zZ8ElJA


Another view of Asteroid Precision's.... 375 HE target gun,




Here is our 416 HSM we are developing next to 416 Barrett, Ed



Ed Hubel
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