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 barrel leading
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nemesisenforcer
Advanced Member

10114 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2012 :  7:13:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just started casting bullets. Took the first batch out to the range today.

They shoot great, but are leading my barrel (a Taurus 1911) something severe.

I tried to clean it out, but even a wire brush with Hoppe's won't get it all out.

I love casting bullets and don't plan to stop or to stop shooting them.

Is there any magic trick to cleaning out the lead effectively?

Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all full up here.

"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne



Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H L Mencken




"Here's a toast to virgins and lesbians: THANKS FOR NOTHIN!!!!!"



"I don't know which disgusts me more: your cowardice or your stupidity."

"HISTORY, CULTURE, TRADITION. THESE ARE NOT CONCEPTS; THEY ARE SOUVENIRS I KEEP IN MY DEN AS PAPERWEIGHTS!!!"

". . . greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
Gordon Gekko

START STOCKPILING AMMUNITION AND DONG BAGS.

dcs shooters
Advanced Member

Turkmenistan
10849 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2012 :  7:50:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A Lewis Lead Remover is the best for bad leading. What kind of lead are you using Your mixture might be too soft or you are loading too hot.

Dick
NRA Endowment Member

Don't mess with old guys. they are too old to fight, too fat to run, so their only choice is to kill you.

You can't fix STUPID, but you can vote it OUT !!!!


If Obama is the answer, it is a very stupid question!

OBAMA, HE'S OUR NUMBER ONE GUN SALESMAN !!

quote:
Political Correctness is a doctorine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by a mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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reloader44mag
Advanced Member

16256 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2012 :  8:53:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nemesisenforcer

Just started casting bullets. Took the first batch out to the range today.

They shoot great, but are leading my barrel (a Taurus 1911) something severe.

I tried to clean it out, but even a wire brush with Hoppe's won't get it all out.

I love casting bullets and don't plan to stop or to stop shooting them.

Is there any magic trick to cleaning out the lead effectively?

How many did ya shoot....gotta mix tin in to harden them up
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MIKE WISKEY
Advanced Member

7916 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2012 :  9:04:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
like the other said there are several times that can cause leading. too soft an alloy, better lube, lower velocity. the NRA recommends just shooting several jacketed bullets before final cleaning.

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brier-49
Advanced Member

USA
5197 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2012 :  9:08:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What are you sizing them to?? If too small you will get lots of leading. I use .452

gun control is not about guns, it is about CONTROL!
Age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
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perry shooter
Advanced Member

13841 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2012 :  9:13:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are a number of MYTHS when it comes to 45ACP and lead bullets #1 they do not need to be hard I have loaded and shoot over 300,000 lead bullets Many of thes were Swaged pure soft lead. NEVER a problem with good lube. The main thing you need is a bullet .001-.002 OVER BORE size. #2I have better luck with soft lube then Hard lube
leading comes from two things poor gas seal between the bullet and bore from undersize bullets and poor seal due to incorrect lube soft lube will seal better. The second thing is rough bore . Barsto and Kart make barrels that are great finish on the bore. Now if your loads do lead the bore put a paper roll of paper towel in the bore wet this roll with KROIL leave over night lead will darn near float out in strips. As the old ALKA-SELSER ad used to say "TRY IT YOU"L LIKE IT"
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jonk
Advanced Member

9695 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2012 :  10:03:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What Perry Shooter said. The question shouldn't be 'how to remove leading' but rather 'why am I getting leading?'

He gave a few good ideas. If your bore is a little rough, firelapping or hand lapping will help. I have one .45 that kept leading, lapped it, and the problem went away.

While a .45 should run fairly high end loads with no leading if bullet fit/lube are good, backing off to a lighter load can't hurt and often is more accurate.

"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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nemesisenforcer
Advanced Member

10114 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2012 :  11:38:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The mold is the Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold TL452-230-2R. They're coming out to .452 caliber, 228-230 grains last time I checked. I'll remeasure and reweigh them tomorrow.

CORRECTION: THE BASE OF THE BULLETS ARE COMING OUT TO .457 OR SO WITH THE DRIVING BANDS BELOW THE NOSE MEASURING .452.

I'm using tire weights for the raw material (got connections at more than one local mechanic shop).

I didn't use any lube on this batch, just shot them for a proof of concept test. Only shot 20 or so rounds and started to see the leading almost immediately.

I put some jacketed bullets through it afterward, to no avail.

I researched this issue on a cast bullets board and got some good ideas where to go.

I lubed up a bunch with Lee Alox, letting them dry tonight.

Looking for something to knock the lead out and try the lubed up ones to see how they perform.

Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all full up here.

"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne



Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H L Mencken




"Here's a toast to virgins and lesbians: THANKS FOR NOTHIN!!!!!"



"I don't know which disgusts me more: your cowardice or your stupidity."

"HISTORY, CULTURE, TRADITION. THESE ARE NOT CONCEPTS; THEY ARE SOUVENIRS I KEEP IN MY DEN AS PAPERWEIGHTS!!!"

". . . greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
Gordon Gekko

START STOCKPILING AMMUNITION AND DONG BAGS.


Edited by - nemesisenforcer on 04/09/2012 7:30:56 PM
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Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

3488 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2012 :  01:14:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I didn't use any lube on this batch,


I believe I have identified the problem.
I have read of naked lead bullets being shot satisfactorily under ideal conditions, but for all ordinary purposes, cast bullets must MUST be lubricated.

A soak SOAK with Kroil will loosen the lead over time.
I left a leaded barrel in a jar of Kroil+Shooters Choice for three days, after which it brushed out clean.
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jonk
Advanced Member

9695 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2012 :  07:46:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Indeed, no lube is the problem, certainly. As said, under perfect conditions no lube for a few shots might work, but otherwise it's an issue.

If you still get leading after checking everything, you might pull a few bullets to see if the case is sizing them down any when seating. It happens.

Try loading them as cast without sizing and see if they chamber first. If they do shoot them as is.

Are you using the tumble lube or normal version of that mold? I have no issues with either, but with such narrow bands, I find the TL molds often require a light load anyhow.

If you still have trouble, try pan lubing if you don't want to buy a lube sizer. In general LLA is good stuff but it's a love it or hate it product. I love it but many hate it.

I run my .45s with 3 gr of bullseye and the tumble lube mold. Again, fairly mild, but it cycles the gun and is accurate, and that's what matters to me.

Shooting a few jacketed rounds to finish up is also controversial. In general you should be fine but if it is a LOT of leading, this can raise pressure.

An old remedy for leading is a 50/50 mix of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. Remove the barrel and wet the bore with this and let stand 20 minutes or so. Then make sure to clean and dry THOROUGHLY or it will cause all kinds of rust. But it does do a number on lead.

"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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cbyerly
Member

690 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2012 :  11:02:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are two main causes of "leading".
First is using straight wheel weights. There is antimony in wheel weights and it does not bind well to lead without the addition of tin. The "leading" you are getting is not actually lead, it is antimony.
Secondaly, your bullet lube may not me working correctly. Commercial lubes other than Alox (bees wax based) are pretty poor.
Get a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and study it before casting your next batch.
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Rocky Raab
Advanced Member

USA
4333 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2012 :  11:29:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Listen to perryshooter. Listen to jonk. (You may ignore the metallurgical advice from cbyerly, which is... let us say "fanciful.")

Lee tumble-lube method is great. The only mistake you will make is grossly over estimating how much LLA you need. Everybody uses too much in the beginning - and some always do. Whatever amount you used the first time, use half that. Then use half of THAT on your third try. That will be close to what you want.
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jonk
Advanced Member

9695 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2012 :  12:25:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For a good read, see: http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

I agree with Rocky Raab that cbyerly is misinformed. Antimony is GOOD to have in the mix. The general breakdown is that it hardens the alloy, and tin makes it flow easier. Yes, tin hardens a little, but not much. I would also agree that TOO much antimony is a bad thing as it could cause a brittle bullet, but you're unlikely to encounter this with any alloy you use.

One thing to watch out for with wheel weights is zinc. If a weight doesn't melt fairly easily, chuck it. Zinc has a higher melting temperature than lead, but if it DOES melt in it will contaminate the melt and lead to poor fill out of the mold. Usually a bucket of used weights will have a few zinc and quite a lot of steel weights mixed in. If you feel like sorting your weights, zinc is a lot harder and goes 'ping' rather than 'clunk' when you drop it. (Very scientific I know).

Also note that there is a difference in composition in wheel weights, and it is a general rule that they run somewhere on the 8 to 10 range for Brinell hardness- plenty fine for the .45. Fine for anything else for that matter, except really high end loads.

Make sure to flux your alloy with wax, sawdust, or commercial flux.

"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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dcs shooters
Advanced Member

Turkmenistan
10849 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2012 :  12:41:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cbyerly

There are two main causes of "leading".
First is using straight wheel weights. There is antimony in wheel weights and it does not bind well to lead without the addition of tin. The "leading" you are getting is not actually lead, it is antimony.
Secondaly, your bullet lube may not me working correctly. Commercial lubes other than Alox (bees wax based) are pretty poor.
Get a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and study it before casting your next batch.



The ONLY good advice above is to get the Lyman book

All I ever used was stright wheel weights casting bullets. I pushed 357mag. 158gr,s 1300fps shooting hunters silhouette with almost no leading.

Dick
NRA Endowment Member

Don't mess with old guys. they are too old to fight, too fat to run, so their only choice is to kill you.

You can't fix STUPID, but you can vote it OUT !!!!


If Obama is the answer, it is a very stupid question!

OBAMA, HE'S OUR NUMBER ONE GUN SALESMAN !!

quote:
Political Correctness is a doctorine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by a mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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charliemeyer007
Advanced Member

USA
3189 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2012 :  1:12:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Antimony will crystilize out first. It also expands on cooling to fill out the bullet in the mold. I like straight wheel weight and I drop them from the mold into a coffie can of water. Those hard lubes like Roster Red make handling bullets great but suck at preventing leading. 50%beewax/50%Alox works for all my needs.
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nemesisenforcer
Advanced Member

10114 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2012 :  7:39:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cleaned out the bore as best as I could (Chore Boy copper scrub pads, solvent, bore brush) and loaded up a few lubed bullets.

When I seated the bullets, this batch (only 8 bullets to make it quick) seemed to shave in the cases a lot more than the non-lubed ones yesterday. Too much lube?

Second, I don't have the lube/sizer die, just running them as is. Between that and the no lube, I think we may have identified the problem.

I'm probably going to polish my barrel to smooth it out as much as possible and try again.

Should I try dropping the bullets out of the mold into water to cool them quickly? It's my understanding that this hardens them and makes it more difficult to shear off material in the bore. Is this right?

Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all full up here.

"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne



Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H L Mencken




"Here's a toast to virgins and lesbians: THANKS FOR NOTHIN!!!!!"



"I don't know which disgusts me more: your cowardice or your stupidity."

"HISTORY, CULTURE, TRADITION. THESE ARE NOT CONCEPTS; THEY ARE SOUVENIRS I KEEP IN MY DEN AS PAPERWEIGHTS!!!"

". . . greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
Gordon Gekko

START STOCKPILING AMMUNITION AND DONG BAGS.

Go to Top of Page

dcs shooters
Advanced Member

Turkmenistan
10849 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2012 :  8:04:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nemesisenforcer

Cleaned out the bore as best as I could (Chore Boy copper scrub pads, solvent, bore brush) and loaded up a few lubed bullets.

When I seated the bullets, this batch (only 8 bullets to make it quick) seemed to shave in the cases a lot more than the non-lubed ones yesterday. Too much lube?


Your brass has to be bell mouthed a little for lead bullets. That will prevent shaving lead.

Dick
NRA Endowment Member

Don't mess with old guys. they are too old to fight, too fat to run, so their only choice is to kill you.

You can't fix STUPID, but you can vote it OUT !!!!


If Obama is the answer, it is a very stupid question!

OBAMA, HE'S OUR NUMBER ONE GUN SALESMAN !!

quote:
Political Correctness is a doctorine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by a mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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perry shooter
Advanced Member

13841 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2012 :  9:39:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
J.B. Bore cleaner will polish the bore without removing metal or at least not enough metal to measure . I like to clean my brass with walnut hulls that has Jewelers Rouge this leaves a slight red tint in the inside of the case My barrels polish out from thousands of rounds and actually shoot smaller groups as shot count goes up from ransom rest. Yes you do need to bell the case mouth and anything over.455 may be too large. this may scrape all the lead off the driving surface of the bullet. Again soft lube is better then hard lube. Hard lube is used by many sellers BECAUSE IT IS EASY and bullets look nice. It is NOT a beauty contest but rather what works.
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nemesisenforcer
Advanced Member

10114 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2012 :  11:33:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dcs shooters

quote:
Originally posted by nemesisenforcer

Cleaned out the bore as best as I could (Chore Boy copper scrub pads, solvent, bore brush) and loaded up a few lubed bullets.

When I seated the bullets, this batch (only 8 bullets to make it quick) seemed to shave in the cases a lot more than the non-lubed ones yesterday. Too much lube?


Your brass has to be bell mouthed a little for lead bullets. That will prevent shaving lead.



They're belled, maybe not enough, but they're definitely expanded.

Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all full up here.

"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne



Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H L Mencken




"Here's a toast to virgins and lesbians: THANKS FOR NOTHIN!!!!!"



"I don't know which disgusts me more: your cowardice or your stupidity."

"HISTORY, CULTURE, TRADITION. THESE ARE NOT CONCEPTS; THEY ARE SOUVENIRS I KEEP IN MY DEN AS PAPERWEIGHTS!!!"

". . . greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
Gordon Gekko

START STOCKPILING AMMUNITION AND DONG BAGS.

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nemesisenforcer
Advanced Member

10114 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2012 :  12:49:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by perry shooter

anything over.455 may be too large. this may scrape all the lead off the driving surface of the bullet.



It's only the very bottom of the bullet that's measuring larger than .452.

The driving surfaces are .452, but anything larger would obviously shear off behind the driving bands.

Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all full up here.

"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne



Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H L Mencken




"Here's a toast to virgins and lesbians: THANKS FOR NOTHIN!!!!!"



"I don't know which disgusts me more: your cowardice or your stupidity."

"HISTORY, CULTURE, TRADITION. THESE ARE NOT CONCEPTS; THEY ARE SOUVENIRS I KEEP IN MY DEN AS PAPERWEIGHTS!!!"

". . . greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
Gordon Gekko

START STOCKPILING AMMUNITION AND DONG BAGS.

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bpost
Moderator

USA
29081 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2012 :  3:12:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You shoot ONE soft unlubed bullet and the cleaning will take you 15 minutes in cleaning to get the lead out. in a 1911 the normal diameter is .452 for cast bullets. Many BILLIONS have been shot at that size with no leading at all.

GunBroker.com Moderator

The Largest Auction Gun Store Online including Pistols, Shotguns, and Rifles




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nemesisenforcer
Advanced Member

10114 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2012 :  11:05:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bpost

You shoot ONE soft unlubed bullet and the cleaning will take you 15 minutes in cleaning to get the lead out. in a 1911 the normal diameter is .452 for cast bullets. Many BILLIONS have been shot at that size with no leading at all.



That's what I figured. Ordered the bullet sizing die (.452) yesterday. Hopefully that will solve the issue.

Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all full up here.

"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne



Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H L Mencken




"Here's a toast to virgins and lesbians: THANKS FOR NOTHIN!!!!!"



"I don't know which disgusts me more: your cowardice or your stupidity."

"HISTORY, CULTURE, TRADITION. THESE ARE NOT CONCEPTS; THEY ARE SOUVENIRS I KEEP IN MY DEN AS PAPERWEIGHTS!!!"

". . . greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
Gordon Gekko

START STOCKPILING AMMUNITION AND DONG BAGS.

Go to Top of Page
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