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 Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting
 Hornady 44 cal 240 gr. XTP
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guntech59
Advanced Member

Brunei
20954 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2015 :  9:40:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone use these for deer in a .44 pistol or as a sabot round in a .50 cal muzzle loader? I bought a pack of 30 today with the sabots.

The 245 gr. Power-belts I have been using seem to pencil right through deer with zero expansion.

US Army (Ret.)
1977-1998

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” — Jefferson`s “Commonplace Book,”

“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”- Heraclitus.

festus
Junior Member

454 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2015 :  10:00:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I used them in my muzzle loader (T/C Renagade) years ago and had good luck with them. Took several deer using them. Few years back I bought a remington muzzle loader and could not get them to shoot good at all in it. Started using barnes expander mz and have to say it's by far the best bullet I have used in a muzzle loader.
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guntech59
Advanced Member

Brunei
20954 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2015 :  3:31:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you.

US Army (Ret.)
1977-1998

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” — Jefferson`s “Commonplace Book,”

“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”- Heraclitus.
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wolfpack
Junior Member

468 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2015 :  6:16:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Taken several deer using a Knight and Remington muzzleloader with these and have had no issues at all, terminal performance was good.

Edited by - wolfpack on 10/25/2015 6:18:21 PM
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guntech59
Advanced Member

Brunei
20954 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2015 :  10:54:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is what I was hoping to hear. Thank you, too, sir!

US Army (Ret.)
1977-1998

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” — Jefferson`s “Commonplace Book,”

“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”- Heraclitus.
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guntech59
Advanced Member

Brunei
20954 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2015 :  8:55:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My bad....these bullets measure .452". I'll be at the range tomorrow with them, some 'white hots' and a new scope.

US Army (Ret.)
1977-1998

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” — Jefferson`s “Commonplace Book,”

“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”- Heraclitus.
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pip5255
Advanced Member

USA
7394 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2015 :  1:04:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
my muzzleloaders didn't like them but I think my loads are light at 50 grains of 2F so that may have been reason, normally I shoot round ball with 50 grains 2F at milk jugs from 50 yards and blow them apart filled with water.

tired not retired !
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guntech59
Advanced Member

Brunei
20954 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2015 :  9:03:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was majorly disappointed when I went to the range. 6" + at 100 yards.

It may have been tha I had to fire the last load I had of the old powder/bullet combination first. Two shots at 50 yards were at ~1", then I went to 100. it was ugly there, but. it is cleaned now so I will try again. Perhaps. starting with an un fouled barrel will get. me better results.

US Army (Ret.)
1977-1998

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” — Jefferson`s “Commonplace Book,”

“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”- Heraclitus.
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204targetman
Advanced Member

USA
2838 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2015 :  10:12:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by guntech59

I was majorly disappointed when I went to the range. 6" + at 100 yards.

It may have been tha I had to fire the last load I had of the old powder/bullet combination first. Two shots at 50 yards were at ~1", then I went to 100. it was ugly there, but. it is cleaned now so I will try again. Perhaps. starting with an un fouled barrel will get. me better results.


I tried these in my Thompson center. And it either didn't like them. Or I didn't find the right load. I was shooting 80 grains of blackhorn. And I couldn't get any kind of group at all. Had a very solid rest. And was only shooting about 40 yards.
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guntech59
Advanced Member

Brunei
20954 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2015 :  5:16:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was back out the other day and got the first two shots, at 50 yards, into an inch. I will try again, at 100 yards, this coming weekend.

US Army (Ret.)
1977-1998

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” — Jefferson`s “Commonplace Book,”

“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”- Heraclitus.

Edited by - guntech59 on 12/16/2015 5:17:27 PM
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204targetman
Advanced Member

USA
2838 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2015 :  10:20:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I switched bullets. Went with the hornady yellow tips and a blue sabot. Cant remember what grain the yellow tips are. Had three shot group almost touching at 40 yards. 80 grains of blackhorn. I guess my rifle likes these.
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guntech59
Advanced Member

Brunei
20954 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2016 :  4:15:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Over the last month or so, shooting one shot from a clean barrel each time I go out, I have put three shots into 1.5 inches.

If I attempt a second shot, with a fouled bore, it lands 2-3 inches away in random directions.

Good enough to kill deer, I suppose, but still a bit disappointing.

US Army (Ret.)
1977-1998

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” — Jefferson`s “Commonplace Book,”

“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”- Heraclitus.
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BikerBob
Senior Member

1868 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2016 :  9:05:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had similar experiences with power belts in a cv a with both 2 and 3 triple 7 pellets. Switched to the cheap lead hollow points in black sabots and the gun seemed get better results. They also seem to expand more in the deer.

I guess you may have to experiment with other rounds or powder mixes. I can tell it's time for a cleaning when I have to work like heck to get then next round loaded vs. having it move around on the target.
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Okie743
Senior Member

USA
1416 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2016 :  8:28:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you might read some of this article
at this link
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=665636#5787583

and search black powder muzzleloader accuracy
and a Randy Wakeman link may show with several articles about load testing muzzleloaders
and read articles about keeping plastic sabots from getting warm/hot.

Too much powder charge, warm barrel and too small a caliber bullet vs bore diameter (keep plastic sabot petals thin as possible) is usually what causes erratic accuracy when using sabots if bore is ok.
(not fouled with grease, plastic or powder)

Some black powder muzzleloaders just don't like power belt bullets.
You have to test.

Arkie

Edited by - Okie743 on 03/20/2016 8:29:58 PM
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guntech59
Advanced Member

Brunei
20954 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2016 :  8:54:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was back out at the range today.

I have been charting cold/clean bore shots taken, at 100 yard targets, over the last three months. Five shots, to be exact. All have landed in a .50" x 2.25" group. The vertical stringing may be my fault, as all the velocities have been between 1630 and 1650 fps.

Any second or subsequent shot is still 3" to 4" off, in random directions, from the group.

I have time to do more experimenting with components before the fall hunts start. The thing is, this is way slower than working up a load with a smokeless powdered cartridge. I have to tell myself to be more patient.

Thanks for the link and insight, okie.

US Army (Ret.)
1977-1998

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” — Jefferson`s “Commonplace Book,”

“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”- Heraclitus.
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Okie743
Senior Member

USA
1416 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2016 :  09:10:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Right about takes lots more effort from a BP muzzleloader as compared to a smokeless when the muzzleloader is erratic grouping and cost per shot is about as much as a smokeless magnum gun. I've got a new Remington 700 ultimate to test on paper and keeping my fingers crossed.

You can find the Hornaday bullets and sabots I mention at the link on a Black Powder card of approx. 20 instead of the box of pistol reload bullets of 50. I've shot the Hornadys thru several different makes of muzzleloaders from sidelocks to inlines with good results on paper and on deer. If you are shooting a scoped gun from sandbags the stringing is most likely the gun and not you. I've been into some guns that would make me start believing that I could not shoot a group and I would take another gun along to prove to myself that I could still shoot.

Patience is the main key.




Arkie
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