GunBroker.com Message Forums
Review our Posting Guidelines
GunBroker.com Message Forums
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?   Trouble / Can't log in?

 All Forums
 GunBroker.com Message Forums
 Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting
 ACCURACY LOAD FOR .50 Cal. CVA OPTIMA?
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

ENBLOC
Junior Member

221 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2015 :  1:47:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hopefully someone has some suggestions where to start? I have a CVA Optima .50 caliber with 1:28 twist. Barrel says "Made in Spain." I purchased some Lee R.E.A.L. 250 grain .50 cal. bullets lubed. Using 90 grains of RS Pyrodex and CCI 209 primer I cannot get this Rifle to group at all with this recipe! I'm thinking of using Sabot loads of 240 grain .44 cal bullet in that sabot, also would purchase some sabots in .50/.45 caliber as I have cast bullets in .45 cal for the Colt & Auto and would experiment with that too using different weight bullets in .45 cal. being 185, 200, 230, & 250 grain.
I was pre-sold on the Lee R.E.A.L. as being very accurate?! Sounded good on paper, but not in the field and real life experience for me!

navc130
Member

516 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2015 :  2:08:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With any muzzleloader, try adjusting the load in five grain increments to +/- fifteen grains.
Go to Top of Page

Okie743
Senior Member

USA
1416 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2016 :  07:45:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For Black Powder RIFLES:
First read your owners manual at least twice.

I've used the following recipes in several 50 cal BP guns (rifles) with 1:28 to !:48 twists with good results and average of 2 inch or less groups using a scope from sandbags at 100 yards if you do your part.
With any BP gun always use as large a caliber bullet as possible vs plastic sabot, ie 45 bullet and matching sabot for 50 cal rifle, 50 cal bullet and a 54 cal sabot for 54 cal guns. (plastic deforms going down barrel so keep the sabot petals thin as possible and use as long a bullet in length as possible to reduce bullet wobble down the bore.
Normally the harder a sabot loads down the barrel the more consistent the accuracy. Harvester makes some Red colored High Pressure sabots that seem to produce good accuracy but are very hard to load during cold weather. Also if a plastic sabot gets hot from a warm barrel or in a plastic package laying in sun the accuracy will suffer with erratic flyers. (blowby)
When first going to range to test a load for accuracy and the gun has a oily bore, fire couple of shots using your bullets and sabots that don't group good as the bore dryers, to burn the grease out of the bore, THEN TAKE a 50 cal bore brush and swab bore couple strokes then wrap a cotton patch around the bore brush and dampen the patch with bore solvent and clean the soot out of the bore, then place a dry patch on the bore brush and swab bore clean, then run patch to bottom of bore, pull back about 3 inchs and pop couple 209's while patched brush is still in bore. This drys the area that powder is loaded real good. The patch around the bore brush won't hang up in the bore like a patched jag does sometimes and is more user friendly for getting a clean bore, then use the bore brush and clean the bore after each shot. For consistent accuracy you need to do same thing before each shot, such as cleaning the bore.
Next set up a target at not over 50 yards and a good sandbag rest. and load the following loads starting out using not over 70 of powder and not over 80g as max during final. If the first shot is on the target SOMEWHERE don't bother adjusting scope or anything, reload and shoot two more shots and check the groups size. If you like the group load 80 gr and shoot 3 more shots. Groups may move couple inchs at 50 yards. After you see the gun shooting decent groups then you can adjust your sights to on target. Powder weights above 80 gr of Triple 7 2F WILL produce a intermittent flyer on HOT days or hot barrel because plastic sabot is weaker and pressure little bit higher. If the following 70 gr load don't work no need in further testing, something else is the issue such as you, scope, gun barrel pitted real bad or riflings gone, etc. You will also find that the more powder you stuff in the barrel above 80gr the more erratic the accuracy especially on a hot day and is usually just a waste of time and money. (all the excess powder in not burning in the barrel and is also blowing by the sabot and not much gain in velocity.
With 70-80 of Triple 7 2F (triple 7 powder burns about 10-15% hotter than black powder) your velocity from a 26-28 inch barrel will be around 1800-2000 and the 300gr XTP/Mag bullet hard nose copper jacketed bullet does real good job on deer sized game.
Hodgdens 1 lb jug of Pyrodex TRIPLE 7 2F (2FF) NOT 3F $25
Hornady 45235 45 cal XTP/Mag bullets (50 per box) $25
Hornady 6751 50 cal black sabots $7
Winchester triple 7 209 primers Box 100 $5 (wal/mart)

A bullet that produces little better accuracy and for deer sized game but cost more per shot is the Barnes solid copper 300 gr expander with matching sabots #45162 using same amount of powder. (Best to use the matching Barnes sabots with these because the plastic petals are little longer but the Harvester Red high pressure sabots work good with these bullets also. Harvester also has some crushed rib sabots that are easier to reload during cold weather that produce excellent groups during cold weather. (plastic sabots seal better during cold weather vs hot plastic not sealing as well. If a sabot or patched bullet don't seal the powder pressure behind itself accuracy will suffer.
The reason these bullets normally produce better groups is they are longer (solid copper, therefore the bullet has to be longer to weigh 300 gr vs lead bullet)) and don't wobble as much when going down a clean bore. (comes out of the bore more stable)

I did not learn this stuff from reading books, been there done that!
Also ignor what you see on TV about using 150-250gr powder and shooting deer at 300 yards with a BP gun, it's BS deluxe.

Good luck to ya and stay safe. (don't forget your safety glasses when shooting BP guns and ALWAYS make sure the bullet is ALWAYS firmly seated against the powder in your BP gun)




Arkie

Edited by - Okie743 on 10/09/2017 7:59:12 PM
Go to Top of Page

Mathews0981
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2016 :  8:22:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
2 white hots and a 295gn powerbelt. Works well for me.
Go to Top of Page

Mgderf
Member

847 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2016 :  10:18:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mathews0981

2 white hots and a 295gn powerbelt. Works well for me.



I like the 230gr power-belts and 100grs (2 pellets) of IMR White Hots with a 209 primer.
Very accurate for me out of both the Optima rifle and pistol.

Have no fear of perfection- you'll never reach it.
"Cogito, Ergo Armatium Sum"- I think, therefore I am armed

NRA Endowment Life Member
Dormant U.S.Marine
Semper Fidelis
Go to Top of Page

wpageabc
Advanced Member

USA
5026 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2017 :  1:16:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Like others have said. Depending on recommendation from owner manual. Powder and sabots...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99Q7pNAjvg
Go to Top of Page

hillbille
Advanced Member

7114 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2017 :  1:57:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
never could get accuracy with power belts, I use scorpions, a bullet and full black plastic sabot. 50-75 yards inch or less groups, these are the best I have ever used, and easiest to load on 2nd and 3rd shots. also one of the cheaper bullets out there.
Go to Top of Page

Okie743
Senior Member

USA
1416 Posts

Posted - 10/09/2017 :  8:02:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hillbille

never could get accuracy with power belts, I use scorpions, a bullet and full black plastic sabot. 50-75 yards inch or less groups, these are the best I have ever used, and easiest to load on 2nd and 3rd shots. also one of the cheaper bullets out there.



Same here.

I have yet too see a BP rifle and that will consistently shoot a 2 inch group at 100 yards with power belt bullets and I've tried several different makes of BP rifles and still looking for one that likes these bullets.

Seem to average around 6 to 12 inch groups.

Edited by - Okie743 on 10/09/2017 8:04:40 PM
Go to Top of Page

diver-rig
Advanced Member

USA
4889 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2017 :  12:23:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Okie743

quote:
Originally posted by hillbille

never could get accuracy with power belts, I use scorpions, a bullet and full black plastic sabot. 50-75 yards inch or less groups, these are the best I have ever used, and easiest to load on 2nd and 3rd shots. also one of the cheaper bullets out there.



Same here.

I have yet too see a BP rifle and that will consistently shoot a 2 inch group at 100 yards with power belt bullets and I've tried several different makes of BP rifles and still looking for one that likes these bullets.

Seem to average around 6 to 12 inch groups.



I have a Knight .45 caliber muzzleloader, had it so many years I forget the model.

It loves 195 grain .45 powerbelts and 3 pyrodex 50 grain pellets.

First couple shots on a clean barrel will be flyers, but after the barrel is fouled, it's a tackdriver.

I've killed deer out to 250 yards, never tried a farther shot.

At 100 yds off of shooting sticks, I consistently get 2-3 inch groups.

It doesn't group well with 225 grain powerbelts.

Edit: and I don't clean, or swab the barrel until 13-14 shots, or season is over. It shoots best dirty.

Edited by - diver-rig on 11/07/2017 12:25:58 PM
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
GunBroker.com Message Forums © 1999-2017 GB Investments, Inc. All Rights Reserved Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06


Visit GunBroker.com at: www.gunbroker.com
Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the site's User Agreement
Site Map