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 Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting
 Shot a Rem 700 ultimate for groups
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Okie743
Senior Member

USA
1416 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2016 :  9:55:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shot 80 gr Blackhorn 209 and 80 gr of triple 7, 2F with the Rem 250 gr bullets and also the 300gr Hornady XTP/Mag 45235 and 6751 plastic sabots
at 100 yards and all shots were within 1 inch groups from sandbags.

Did not test the 200 gr area.
This was the Laminated stock, gun very heavy, low recoil.
I did notice the stock is not checkered and the big Beavertail fore end is
slick and not user friendly for carrying or holding the gun.

Very easy to prime just throw in a primed hull and close the bolt.
Hulls are easily re-primed with Rem 9 1/2M primers using lee universal de-cap and the RCB universal shell holder primer.
I think maybe a 243/308 shell holder might fit the hull, but not sure.
Overall the gun appears to be very nice and well made and very accurate with good adjustable trigger pull.

Arkie

Edited by - Okie743 on 07/20/2016 07:10:15 AM

Okie743
Senior Member

USA
1416 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2016 :  07:22:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Reloading Remington Ultimate Black Powder primer brass with Rem 9 1/2M primers.

I made some of the Remington Ultimate brass primer hulls (that cost over $1 each when new) using 243 and/or 308 brass (old used hulls) cut to length using miniature tubing cutter at 1.090 inch length(same length as Remington OEM's) then chamfered and de-burred and primed with Remington 9 1/2M primers.


Arkie
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hadjii
Member

USA
702 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2016 :  10:39:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okie, I shot mine yesterday for grouping, using 120 gr. of triple 7 loose in FFF and the remington accutip that came with the gun. 2 inch groups from a rest. Not as good as yours, but good enough. I shot it twice using 4 pyrodex pellets, and that was enough for me. Kicked harder than my 375 Ruger. Looking at different blogs on the gun, looks as though using 300 grain parker bullets and 130-160 grains of Blackhorn is yielding some phenomenal accuracy. One guy shot under a 5 inch group at 500 yards. That's some crazy stuff there.
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Okie743
Senior Member

USA
1416 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2016 :  06:53:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hadjii

Okie, I shot mine yesterday for grouping, using 120 gr. of triple 7 loose in FFF and the remington accutip that came with the gun. 2 inch groups from a rest. Not as good as yours, but good enough. I shot it twice using 4 pyrodex pellets, and that was enough for me. Kicked harder than my 375 Ruger. Looking at different blogs on the gun, looks as though using 300 grain parker bullets and 130-160 grains of Blackhorn is yielding some phenomenal accuracy. One guy shot under a 5 inch group at 500 yards. That's some crazy stuff there.



You will find if you shoot big heavy loads of Black powder in Black powder guns you will not get consistent accuracy, a really wild flyer every once in awhile and a real fast bullet off target by several inches is a bad thing when hunting. The flyer will most generally happen right when you are aiming at the big un.

Sometime back I tested triple FFF (3F) for accuracy for comparison to FF (2F) for accuracy in Black Powder guns (50 and 45 caliber) and the FF (2F) produced the most consistent accuracy.

I thought maybe the 45 caliber guns might like the triple 7 3F better than the 2F but not so. I now use the left over 3F as a bore dryer powder.

You will also find if you shoot heavy loads of Black Powder or it's equivalent, seems the break over point is most generally around 100gr for rifles) the groups have tendency to start getting larger and you WILL GET a drastic flyer off target every once in awhile, which is not good as a hunting load.

If you shoot a BP gun at night with a heavy load of BP you will see that a large portion of the powder is not burning inside the barrel, big fireballs burning after the heavy load of BP leaves the barrel.

My son is going to shoot the Remington with 200 gr load next time we are together testing just too feel the kick. Big heavy loads and magnums hurt my ribs for few days afterwards and I cannot test the hard kickers for consistent accuracy with my eyes closed and a nervous flinch when jerking the trigger and if the gun happens to snap or not fire I turn over the shooting bench and fall off the seat from the flinch.





Arkie

Edited by - Okie743 on 08/24/2016 06:57:33 AM
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hadjii
Member

USA
702 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2017 :  2:09:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well okie, season is over, and alot has changed and happened with my 700 ultimate. My daughter shot her first buck during early season. She shot a nice 8 pt from about 25 yards, using 100 gr of triple 7,3F, and a 275 grain parker bullet. Killed the buck alright, but dang, I've never seen a bullet come apart in so many pieces. Won't ever shoot parker bullets again. Late season, I made my longest kill on a deer with a muzzleloader. 231 yards by the lazer. I used 115 grains of Alliant Black MZ behind a 270 grain all copper federal premium bor-lock bullet. DRT. Deer didn't take a step.

After the parker bullet fiasco my daughter had, I decided to try some experimenting. Tried hornady sst's with several different sabots with crappy results. Read an article somewhere about promising results with these all copper federal bor-loks, so thought what the heck, I'll try em' without really expecting anything good. Then, having some decent results with Alliant Black MZ, thought I'd try it again.

I was totally flabbergasted by the results. I retried the same load again and again and again, and always got the same result. 3 shots inside an inch, and every time, 2 of the 3 are intersecting, or straight out thru the same hole. Every time I shoot this gun, I'm amazed at how it shoots. Muzzleloaders are not suppose to shoot this good. I would run 1 wet patch and 3 dry patches between each shot, and no matter how many shots I fired, this 700 ultimate with 115 grains of Black MZ and the federal bullet just blew the center out of the target at a hundred yards. Just incredible. Needless to say, I've scrapped triple 7 powder and all the other bullets.
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Okie743
Senior Member

USA
1416 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2017 :  10:08:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hadjii

Well okie, season is over, and alot has changed and happened with my 700 ultimate. My daughter shot her first buck during early season. She shot a nice 8 pt from about 25 yards, using 100 gr of triple 7,3F, and a 275 grain parker bullet. Killed the buck alright, but dang, I've never seen a bullet come apart in so many pieces. Won't ever shoot parker bullets again. Late season, I made my longest kill on a deer with a muzzleloader. 231 yards by the lazer. I used 115 grains of Alliant Black MZ behind a 270 grain all copper federal premium bor-lock bullet. DRT. Deer didn't take a step.

After the parker bullet fiasco my daughter had, I decided to try some experimenting. Tried hornady sst's with several different sabots with crappy results. Read an article somewhere about promising results with these all copper federal bor-loks, so thought what the heck, I'll try em' without really expecting anything good. Then, having some decent results with Alliant Black MZ, thought I'd try it again.

I was totally flabbergasted by the results. I retried the same load again and again and again, and always got the same result. 3 shots inside an inch, and every time, 2 of the 3 are intersecting, or straight out thru the same hole. Every time I shoot this gun, I'm amazed at how it shoots. Muzzleloaders are not suppose to shoot this good. I would run 1 wet patch and 3 dry patches between each shot, and no matter how many shots I fired, this 700 ultimate with 115 grains of Black MZ and the federal bullet just blew the center out of the target at a hundred yards. Just incredible. Needless to say, I've scrapped triple 7 powder and all the other bullets.



Yep, sometimes a ballistic tip or hollow point bullet will blow up especially at close range or if they do not come apart they may not exit and the animal will die few days later. When a bullet does not exit the blood trail is also less and harder to follow and find the animal.

You need to try these bullets and sabots.
300gr Hornady XTP/Mag 45235 and 6751 plastic sabots You can get them 50 to the box and I've been using them for years with good results. Be sure you get the XTP MAG
The MAG has a harder shell and won't blow up and it will usually go thru if deer is sideways and leaves good blood trail and they mushroom good even a LV.
Harvester also makes some RED high pressure sabot that usually produces good groups with the Hornady bullet, and I think maybe they now have a ribbed RED sabot. The ribbed sabot loads little easier.
I use the Harvester red high pressure sabot during hot weather because it will produce tighter average groups, but during cold weather it is hard to load or reload due to it being a harder plastic.

Most people do not realize that playing around shooting and testing BP rifles at paper can get costly fast at over $1 per shot with some ammo and you end up with boxes of stuff that does not produce good groups.
I label my bad grouping stuff as bore dryers. (use this type stuff to burn the grease out of the barrel in prep for the real thing.

You also mentioned running a damp patch and then dry patch when testing for groups.
I do the same but I carry a plastic bore brush and use it in the field dry and then dump the black dust before reloading and get good 2nd shot group.
Also I use the plastic bristle bore brush wrapped with a bore swap INSTEAD of using a brass jag when cleaning or swabbing the bore. The bore brush has just enough flex with the wrapped bore swab that it will not hang up in the bore hard like a bore swab on a jag.
Not fun when a bore jag hangs at the bottom of the bore when cleaning a barrel. If it ever happens to ya in the field and the breech plug is not easily removable just pour little bit of liquid (water, coffee, etc) into the bore, let it soak for one minute then twist the ramrod CW and remove. The liquid softens the swab and fouling for easier removal. I've seen guys pull the ends off of ramrods or shoot a ramrod out of the old TC type MZ loaders when the ramrod with jag hung in the bottom of the bore.

Arkie
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