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NRA Opinion

2

Comments

  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,312 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jwharding
    Let start a new organization. It will be 100% free. Magazine every month even better than theirs. Fight for everyone's rights, no charge. Pay all legal fees. Yes that's the way to go. Sign up now.its free. Just call with your address so we can mail you a free stamp an envelope with the form.
    Jw
    Then Somebody has to post crap like this. NOBODY at all says that's what they want. Some of you guys ought to wise up.....seriously.
  • DirtyDawgDirtyDawg Member Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is C&P from a forum member a few years back. I saved it to a Word document so that I will always have it readily available.

    THE NRA


    What HARM can they do / have they done?

    Let us first consider the "Uniform Machinegun Act of 1932" which provided for the registration of machine guns, that was adopted in a few states (Conn., Va., Md., Ark., and Montana and possibly others) which was developed with the support of the NRA, BEFORE the feds ultimately adopted the "National Firearms Act" in 1934.

    The reason this stands out, is that MANY people believe that the "National Firearms Act of 1934 was the pivotal law, the first of the UNconstitutional laws. Thereby "starting" an ever widening path, allowing for further infringements. Not so, the UMA was first.

    "The NRA supported The Federal Firearms Act of 1938, which regulates interstate
    and foreign commerce in firearms and pistol, revolver ammunition.

    The NRA supported legislation to amend the "Federal Firearms Act" in regard to handguns when it was introduced in August, 1963.

    In 1965, the NRA continued its support of an expansion of the above legislation to include rifles and shotguns, as well as handguns.
    Additionally the NRA supported the regulation of the movement of handguns in interstate and foreign commerce by:
    1. Requiring a sworn statement, containing certain information, from the purchaser to the seller for the receipt of a handgun in interstate commerce;
    2. Providing for notification of local police of prospective sales;
    3. Requiring an additional 7-day waiting period by the seller after receipt of acknowledgement of notification to local police;
    4. Prescribing a minimum age of 21 for obtaining a license to sell firearms and increasing the license fees;
    5. Providing for written notification by manufacturer or dealer to carrier that a firearm is being shipped in interstate commerce, and;
    6. Increasing penalties for violation.

    NRA HELPED WRITE the 1986 federal law prohibiting the manufacture and importation of "armor piercing ammunition" adopted standards.

    *****

    The NRA has been hard at work, over the last few years, turning a RIGHT (guaranteed by our constitution) into a revocable PRIVILEGE. Many pro-gun people commend them for this. Others see it for what it really is.

    The second amendment states. "The right of the people to keep and BEAR arms" It doesn't say "to keep and display arms" or "to keep and hide arms" or "to keep and lock up your arms" or "to keep and use arms" it says "to keep and BEAR arms" Look it up in the dictionary. To "bear something" means to CARRY it. Any attempt at "interpreting" the meaning of this, is clearly an anti-gun tactic.

    *****

    "Project EXILE" IS the NRA's very own project.
    NRA'S project (EXILE) supports ALL UNconstitutional gun laws. Handgun Control Inc. supports it TOO. NRA-ILA Executive Director James Jay Baker commented, "I'm glad that the president has finally agreed with the NRA that enforcing federal firearms laws makes sense. We've been pushing for more enforcement of existing laws. Did anyone tell them that ALL of the 20,000 gun laws are UNCONSTITUTIONAL??? OF COURSE Handgun Control Inc. supports this NRA project.

    *****

    Schools
    Then NRA Executive Vice President Wayne R. LaPierre, Jr., made these damaging statements during his nationally televised speech at the Denver NRA Members Meeting May 1, 1999. "First, we believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel."

    All across the country, school boards and state legislators started doing precisely what LaPierre suggested: shutting down school riflery programs, prohibiting historical firearms displays, forbidding hunter safety training with unloaded guns, and banning gun possession by teachers and other adults with carry licenses. A good example of the long range implications of what LaPierre endorsed back then, is the recent tragedy at Virginia Tech.

    Making schools a "gun free zone" where lunatics can murder with impunity, was his response to the Columbine shootings? What happened to advocating responsible carry, by responsible citizens???

    *****

    LaPierre also blessed gun show background checks by saying: "We will consider instant checks at gun shows when, and only when, this Administration stops (charging for NICS
    checks) and stops illegally compiling the records of millions of lawful gun buyers."

    The next day President Charlton Heston flatly said on ABC "This Week" that he was "in favor of" gun show background checks. Within weeks, bills for gun show background checks - and "youth gun access" bans - had been submitted in both houses of Congress!

    *****

    First amendment rights?
    Was it the National Rifle Association that had ONE OF IT'S OWN MEMBERS, a pro-gun activist, ARRESTED at its national convention on, April 27, 2003 in Orlando, Florida for handing out PRO-gun freedom literature from an organization known as the Free State Project, Inc. The unlucky NRA member was Timothy Condon, a Marine Corps Vietnam veteran and Director of Member Services for the rapidly growing Free State Project.

    *****

    It was NRA PRESIDENT Dr. C.R. (Pink) Gutermuth, who saw "no problem with gun registration," and was head of the Wildlife Management Institute, who became NRA President in 1973.

    Part of the problem began during the unlamented regime of former Executive Vice President Warren Cassidy. NRA lobbyists under Cassidy stopped opposing gun control bills and started offering NRA-approved versions of the same legislation. The NRA started WRITING ANTI-GUN LEGISLATION.

    Politicians were lobbying their colleagues for the so-called "instant check?" These pro-gunners were pushing a gun control bill that the NRA was strongly supporting.

    Jim Baker of the NRA was quoted by USA Today on October 26, 1993 as saying: "We already support 65% of the Brady bill, because it moves to an instant check, which is WHAT WE WANT."

    NRA spokesman Bill McIntrye said that the instant background check also in the bill "will be a victory for gun owners.

    From NRA Board member Tanya Metaksa.
    I think this agreement was a victory for those who see flaws in the current bill. This is a much different Brady bill. This bill sunsets into what we've been supporting for several years [the instant check]. If you look at it in the long range, IT`S OUR BILL in five years.

    *****

    Recently the NRA tried to derail a case in Washington DC. The "Parker v. District of Columbia" case. First by trying to have the case consolidated with NRA controlled litigation, which would have drug this case out for YEARS. When that failed, the NRA got behind, and was pushing for the "DC Personal Protection Act" bill, which would, in effect, remove the law that the "Parker v. District of Columbia" case was based upon. Thereby preventing the "Parker v. District of Columbia" case from going before the supreme court.

    Why would they try to derail a case that ultimately DID overturned a gun ban, and potentially settle the long disputed "individual right v. the right of the militia" to keep and bear arms? Because they said it was "too good" and might actually make it before the supreme court? A supreme court (considering the make up of it at present) where we have the best chance of them handing down a favorable ruling, than we have had in decades. With the very real potential, of the democrats gaining control in the next election (thereby giving them the opportunity to choose the next judges) if not now, WHEN?

    And when was the NRA fighting for our rights in this way? Oh ya...2007.

    *****

    Lets look at ANOTHER bill backed by the NRA. H.R. 2640, the "NICS Improvement Amendments Act" Admittedly, as always, there are some "supposedly" pro-gun people that are in favor of this. For me, to see the first red flags thrown up, are to look at who is sponsoring/co-sponsoring this bill. Carolyn McCarthy along with Barbara Boxer. Nevermind the far reaching implications, with the potential of opening a Pandora's box, concerning the mental health issue regarding veterans, as well as anyone else that has seen some kind of mental issue. (children diagnosed with ADD? etc). The UNconstitutional NICS check should not be EXPANDED upon, in the first place.

    Oh, and this again IS happening in 2007
  • DirtyDawgDirtyDawg Member Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lets not forget the NRA BOARD MEMBER (Joaquin Jackson) who "indicated" that "assault rifles" should only be in the hands of the military and/or law enforcement. But since they ARE legal for civilians to own, then civilians should be limited to 5 round magazines.


    quote:
    I think these assault weapons basically need to be in the hands of the military and they need to be in the hands of the police, but uh, as far as assault weapons to a civilian, if you. if you. it's alright if you got that magazine capacity down to five.




    *****

    While reading the following, keep in mind that former NRA board member Russ Howard, RESIGNED from the board. His words, "In the past 5 years I've become increasingly concerned over NRA's penchant for giving UNDESERVED grades to politicians who TRAMPLE on the 2nd Amendment."


    In California JOAN MILKE FLORES VS JANE HARMAN. 36TH CONGRESSIONAL
    Flores is an anti-gun Republican who voted FOR the Los Angeles Assault Rifle Ban. Harman is an anti- gun Democrat who got an "A" rating from the NRA. Why an "A" rating? She was ANTI-GUN!!! Who later said that she supports the assault weapon ban.

    CHRISTINE REED VS TERRY FREIDMAN (State Assembly)
    Reed was an anti-gun C-rated Republican Handgun Control Inc. member who had been mayor of Santa Monica. Reed who should have been an "F". Freidman was an F-rated incumbent Democrat who authored many anti-gun bills

    TRICIA HUNTER: Hunter was state senator whose bid to retain office was based on high-profile attacks on "killer assault rifles". She was rated "A-" by the NRA.

    Howard Dean got an A+ from the NRA while governor, he supported the assault weapons ban and Brady bill.

    Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA). Did not vote when needed, but was helped by the NRA come re-election.

    Rep. Elton Gallegly (R-CA) voted FOR the brady bill (3 times) then was helped by the NRA come re-election.

    Congressman Elton Gallegly -- voted FOR the Brady bill and the assault weapon ban and got an A-, and an endorsement. NRA's Terry O'Grady said, 'Gallegly voted against us on Brady and the Crime Bill, but he's always been with us before. We've decided to forgive him, give him an A- and endorse him. SAY WHAT?

    In Virginia, 15 legislators were given A ratings after they voted FOR both the one-gun-a-month ban AND the shotgun ban. 41 legislators who voted for either or both bans got A ratings. 7 got exceptional, "above the call of duty" ratings.

    In North Carolina, some districts have two senators. In the '94 elections, District 20 was represented by Ted Kaplan and Marvin Ward. Both favored assault weapon bans, handgun registration, and a one-gun-a-month ban. Their challengers were solid pro-gunners Ham Horton and Mark McDaniels (who fought tooth and nail for CCW). Nevertheless, ILA upgraded both anti-gun incumbents to "A" (one was initially a C), endorsed them, and supported them by mailing orange alert cards to NRA members in their district. Kaplan and Ward lost anyway, as incensed local groups like Grass Roots NC broke ranks with ILA and helped elect the pro-gun challengers.

    In NC in 1995, Senator Fountain Odom betrayed the 2nd Amendment by gutting the CCW bill in his subcommittee. The bill had come over in more or less tolerable format from the house. Odom fixed it so that only a few police instructors could give the mandatory training. NRA instructors were prohibited. He also worked to move un-permitted CCW from a misdemeanor to a felony, prohibit CCW with any alcohol "remaining" in the body, prohibit CCW in financial institutions, mandate that all training be fully repeated for each renewal, and gut statewide preemption. Limited preemption was restored in the full judiciary committee, but Odom betrayed us again, fixing it so CCW could be prohibited in any "park". Later on the floor, to give ILA cover, Odom amended the training section to allow NRA instructors to do the training. In 1996, Tanya Metaksa gave Odom an A, an endorsement, and an orange ALERT postcard mailing telling NRA members, "Senator Odom has demonstrated his commitment to our right to self-defense...Here's how you can help re-elect Fountain Odom -- a dedicated supporter of your Second Amendment rights. Help the campaign...make a contribution...spread the word to family, friends, and fellow gun owners... Sincerely, Tanya K. Metaksa." Odom's still trampling on our rights. Now he's pushing for a CCW liability law.


    In Virginia in 1996, extreme "F" rated gun grabber Congressman Jim Moran faced "A" rated, NRA life member John Otey. The American Rifleman carried the following message: "THIS IS YOUR OFFICIAL PRO-GUN BALLOT FOR THE FOLLOWING DISTRICT: VIRGINIA 8, US CONGRESS...NO ENDORSEMENT"
    NO endorsement for an A rated NRA life member challenging an F- rated gun grabber???

    In Virginia, 3 congressmen who voted many times against gun rights and supported the Lautenberg ban, kept their A+ ratings (part of a large club of turncoat A and A+ politicians). Tom Davis got an A after voicing support for Brady and the assault weapon ban and orchestrating a unanimous vote of support for the one-gun-a-month ban as a Fairfax County Supervisor.

    In Pennsylvania (1993), then Republican Minority Whip Matt Ryan INTRODUCED an assault rifle ban. In 1994, he kept his A+ rating.

    In 2006, the NRA rated Ron Paul (arguably the MOST constitutional representative we have in office) with a "B" because he did not follow along in lock step, when the NRA endorsed (what Ron Paul saw) as an UNconstitutional bill. One that the NRA supported. Instead, they endorsed his UNproved, UNtested, DEMOCRATIC opponent.

    *******

    John Dingell?
    The NRA's Golden Boy? The former NRA Director? The same guy who voted in favor of the 1994 "Assault" weapons ban and then resigned from the Board of Directors the day after the vote? The same Dingell who received the NRA's Harlon B. Carter Award, despite voting FOR an outright gun BAN? The same Dingell that coined the term "jack-booted thugs" when referring to the BATF? THAT Dingell?

    NRA Board of Directors member Larry Craig, was one of the co-sponsors of this bill, "Our Lady of Peace Act" Which was introduced by Caroline McCarthy, and supported by Chuck Schumer along with the usual band of anti Second Amendment slime like, Ted Kennedy, Blanche Lincoln and Richard Durbin.
    Don't know what it is/was? Look it up.

    Can't forget the "help" we got from the NRA. In the "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act." Not debating, if setting this kind of precedent with legislation, protecting industries, is right. Not debating whether the industry needed this protection. The point here is, that there was a CLEAN bill (800) on the floor, AT THE SAME TIME. Everyone agrees that either bill (397 or 800) would pass through the senate, with no problem. So it depended on the house. There are always more votes than there are co-sponsors of a bill. S. Bill 800 had over 250 signed on as co-sponsors. MORE than enough to pass it, CLEAN. Why did the NRA CHOOSE to back the anti-gun laden bill, when there was a CLEAN alternative? For a true PRO-gun advocate, this was a no brainer.



    The NRA awarded Assemblyman Rod Wright its "Defender of Freedom" Award. This is the same Rod Wright who supported UNconstitutional limits on firearms purchases and background checks. This is the same Rod Wright who authored a bill to increase licensing fees from $3 to up to $100. Never mind the absurdity of bilking peaceable citizens of hundreds of dollars for making a constitutionally protected purchase. This champion of "freedom" apparently thinks it's perfectly acceptable to license and charge Americans for exercising their rights. The NRA's "Defender of Freedom" in 2001 voted against gun owners 62 percent of the time

    Deborah Danuski, a Democrat from Lisbon, was endorsed by the anti-handgun group, while also receiving an "A-" from the NRA on its report card of candidates. As a matter of fact, in Maine, both the NRA and Maine Citizens Against Handgun Violence supported 18 of the same candidates!

    In Colorado, where the NRA supported Senator Wayne Allard for office, and even boosted his pro-gun lobby contributions to $37,000 since 1990, Allard stated flatly that he would support federal legislation requiring gun registration for private gun sales at gun shows. Is a legislator who wants to expand gun registration someone who stands up for the rights of gun owners?

    From Virginia, where the NRA Political Victory Fund touted the pro-gun "accomplishments" of Delegate Jack Rollison. This is the same Rollison who in a press release had the unmitigated gall to paint Gun Owners of America and the Virginia Citizens Defense League, who have endorsed his opponent Jeff Frederick, as extremists and "milita-esque" organizations. This is the same Jack Rollison who wants to ban your right to self-defense in any restaurant that happens to sell liquor. And this is the same Jack Rollison who voted correctly on only two out of eight issues important to Virginia gun owners.

    The NRA also gave their "Defender of Freedom Award" to one Kevin Mannix, who ran for governor here in 2002. In 1999 Mannix was the architect of the worst piece of gun control legislation in 10 years, in the Oregon House.
  • SGSG Member Posts: 7,548
    edited November -1
    Why is the 2nd amendment the only constitutional right that you need a permit to exercise?
  • USN_AirdaleUSN_Airdale Member Posts: 2,987
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by DirtyDawg
    This is C&P from a forum member a few years back. I saved it to a Word document so that I will always have it readily available.

    THE NRA


    What HARM can they do / have they done?

    Let us first consider the "Uniform Machinegun Act of 1932" which provided for the registration of machine guns, that was adopted in a few states (Conn., Va., Md., Ark., and Montana and possibly others) which was developed with the support of the NRA, BEFORE the feds ultimately adopted the "National Firearms Act" in 1934.

    The reason this stands out, is that MANY people believe that the "National Firearms Act of 1934 was the pivotal law, the first of the UNconstitutional laws. Thereby "starting" an ever widening path, allowing for further infringements. Not so, the UMA was first.

    "The NRA supported The Federal Firearms Act of 1938, which regulates interstate
    and foreign commerce in firearms and pistol, revolver ammunition.

    The NRA supported legislation to amend the "Federal Firearms Act" in regard to handguns when it was introduced in August, 1963.

    In 1965, the NRA continued its support of an expansion of the above legislation to include rifles and shotguns, as well as handguns.
    Additionally the NRA supported the regulation of the movement of handguns in interstate and foreign commerce by:
    1. Requiring a sworn statement, containing certain information, from the purchaser to the seller for the receipt of a handgun in interstate commerce;
    2. Providing for notification of local police of prospective sales;
    3. Requiring an additional 7-day waiting period by the seller after receipt of acknowledgement of notification to local police;
    4. Prescribing a minimum age of 21 for obtaining a license to sell firearms and increasing the license fees;
    5. Providing for written notification by manufacturer or dealer to carrier that a firearm is being shipped in interstate commerce, and;
    6. Increasing penalties for violation.

    NRA HELPED WRITE the 1986 federal law prohibiting the manufacture and importation of "armor piercing ammunition" adopted standards.

    *****

    The NRA has been hard at work, over the last few years, turning a RIGHT (guaranteed by our constitution) into a revocable PRIVILEGE. Many pro-gun people commend them for this. Others see it for what it really is.

    The second amendment states. "The right of the people to keep and BEAR arms" It doesn't say "to keep and display arms" or "to keep and hide arms" or "to keep and lock up your arms" or "to keep and use arms" it says "to keep and BEAR arms" Look it up in the dictionary. To "bear something" means to CARRY it. Any attempt at "interpreting" the meaning of this, is clearly an anti-gun tactic.

    *****

    "Project EXILE" IS the NRA's very own project.
    NRA'S project (EXILE) supports ALL UNconstitutional gun laws. Handgun Control Inc. supports it TOO. NRA-ILA Executive Director James Jay Baker commented, "I'm glad that the president has finally agreed with the NRA that enforcing federal firearms laws makes sense. We've been pushing for more enforcement of existing laws. Did anyone tell them that ALL of the 20,000 gun laws are UNCONSTITUTIONAL??? OF COURSE Handgun Control Inc. supports this NRA project.

    *****

    Schools
    Then NRA Executive Vice President Wayne R. LaPierre, Jr., made these damaging statements during his nationally televised speech at the Denver NRA Members Meeting May 1, 1999. "First, we believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel."

    All across the country, school boards and state legislators started doing precisely what LaPierre suggested: shutting down school riflery programs, prohibiting historical firearms displays, forbidding hunter safety training with unloaded guns, and banning gun possession by teachers and other adults with carry licenses. A good example of the long range implications of what LaPierre endorsed back then, is the recent tragedy at Virginia Tech.

    Making schools a "gun free zone" where lunatics can murder with impunity, was his response to the Columbine shootings? What happened to advocating responsible carry, by responsible citizens???

    *****

    LaPierre also blessed gun show background checks by saying: "We will consider instant checks at gun shows when, and only when, this Administration stops (charging for NICS
    checks) and stops illegally compiling the records of millions of lawful gun buyers."

    The next day President Charlton Heston flatly said on ABC "This Week" that he was "in favor of" gun show background checks. Within weeks, bills for gun show background checks - and "youth gun access" bans - had been submitted in both houses of Congress!

    *****

    First amendment rights?
    Was it the National Rifle Association that had ONE OF IT'S OWN MEMBERS, a pro-gun activist, ARRESTED at its national convention on, April 27, 2003 in Orlando, Florida for handing out PRO-gun freedom literature from an organization known as the Free State Project, Inc. The unlucky NRA member was Timothy Condon, a Marine Corps Vietnam veteran and Director of Member Services for the rapidly growing Free State Project.

    *****

    It was NRA PRESIDENT Dr. C.R. (Pink) Gutermuth, who saw "no problem with gun registration," and was head of the Wildlife Management Institute, who became NRA President in 1973.

    Part of the problem began during the unlamented regime of former Executive Vice President Warren Cassidy. NRA lobbyists under Cassidy stopped opposing gun control bills and started offering NRA-approved versions of the same legislation. The NRA started WRITING ANTI-GUN LEGISLATION.

    Politicians were lobbying their colleagues for the so-called "instant check?" These pro-gunners were pushing a gun control bill that the NRA was strongly supporting.

    Jim Baker of the NRA was quoted by USA Today on October 26, 1993 as saying: "We already support 65% of the Brady bill, because it moves to an instant check, which is WHAT WE WANT."

    NRA spokesman Bill McIntrye said that the instant background check also in the bill "will be a victory for gun owners.

    From NRA Board member Tanya Metaksa.
    I think this agreement was a victory for those who see flaws in the current bill. This is a much different Brady bill. This bill sunsets into what we've been supporting for several years [the instant check]. If you look at it in the long range, IT`S OUR BILL in five years.

    *****

    Recently the NRA tried to derail a case in Washington DC. The "Parker v. District of Columbia" case. First by trying to have the case consolidated with NRA controlled litigation, which would have drug this case out for YEARS. When that failed, the NRA got behind, and was pushing for the "DC Personal Protection Act" bill, which would, in effect, remove the law that the "Parker v. District of Columbia" case was based upon. Thereby preventing the "Parker v. District of Columbia" case from going before the supreme court.

    Why would they try to derail a case that ultimately DID overturned a gun ban, and potentially settle the long disputed "individual right v. the right of the militia" to keep and bear arms? Because they said it was "too good" and might actually make it before the supreme court? A supreme court (considering the make up of it at present) where we have the best chance of them handing down a favorable ruling, than we have had in decades. With the very real potential, of the democrats gaining control in the next election (thereby giving them the opportunity to choose the next judges) if not now, WHEN?

    And when was the NRA fighting for our rights in this way? Oh ya...2007.

    *****

    Lets look at ANOTHER bill backed by the NRA. H.R. 2640, the "NICS Improvement Amendments Act" Admittedly, as always, there are some "supposedly" pro-gun people that are in favor of this. For me, to see the first red flags thrown up, are to look at who is sponsoring/co-sponsoring this bill. Carolyn McCarthy along with Barbara Boxer. Nevermind the far reaching implications, with the potential of opening a Pandora's box, concerning the mental health issue regarding veterans, as well as anyone else that has seen some kind of mental issue. (children diagnosed with ADD? etc). The UNconstitutional NICS check should not be EXPANDED upon, in the first place.

    Oh, and this again IS happening in 2007




    like i said !!

    Negotiable Rights Association
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,312 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by SG
    Why is the 2nd amendment the only constitutional right that you need a permit to exercise?
    Well, I donno. Maybe one of the NRA members here could offer their thoughts on that RIGHT turned PRIVILEGE.
  • NavybatNavybat Member Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
    quote:Originally posted by SG
    Why is the 2nd amendment the only constitutional right that you need a permit to exercise?
    Well, I donno. Maybe one of the NRA members here could offer their thoughts on that RIGHT turned PRIVILEGE.


    I don't understand this hostility towards the NRA.

    Is it the NRA's sole responsibility as the "keepers of the 2nd Amendment"? Where in the US Code or the constitution does it say that? They are working for us, and the 2nd Amendment--as hard or harder than ANY other organization. But don't lay any sort of blame on THEM for what the politicians and PEOPLE have done...what have YOU done, personally, to ensure your rights? (And when I say YOU, I mean all of us, generically). Vote?
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Navybat
    quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
    quote:Originally posted by SG
    Why is the 2nd amendment the only constitutional right that you need a permit to exercise?
    Well, I donno. Maybe one of the NRA members here could offer their thoughts on that RIGHT turned PRIVILEGE.


    I don't understand this hostility towards the NRA.

    Is it the NRA's sole responsibility as the "keepers of the 2nd Amendment"? Where in the US Code or the constitution does it say that? They are working for us, and the 2nd Amendment--as hard or harder than ANY other organization. But don't lay any sort of blame on THEM for what the politicians and PEOPLE have done...what have YOU done, personally, to ensure your rights? (And when I say YOU, I mean all of us, generically). Vote?

    No, it's ours. and it's our responsibility to fight against the NRA when they're turning the right into a privilege.

    The NRA is fighting, but they're not fighting for us. They're fighting for the NRA, as you may see from the often-posted and often-ignored facts brought back yet again by DirtyDawg.

    I don't know what you've done personally, but a couple years ago, I personally sued my local government because they violated my right to carry.

    Also, just a couple weeks ago, I personally spoke with the representative who is going to introduce the GOA (not NRA)-backed legislation to require national reciprocity and encouraged him to keep fighting for our rights.
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    NRA and Brady both pushed the "NICS Improvement Act" (otherwise known as Veterans' disarmament act) and published press releases celebrating it when it was passed into law.

    NRA is actively fighting against constitutional carry in Texas right now.
  • Smitty500magSmitty500mag Member Posts: 13,603 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by USN_Airdale

    like i said !!

    Negotiable Rights Association



    Why don't you post the name and address of YOUR organization that does a better job so we can all sign up to get our free magazine? If you don't have an answer and something better then shut the hell up!!
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
    quote:Originally posted by USN_Airdale

    like i said !!

    Negotiable Rights Association



    Why don't you post the name and address of YOUR organization that does a better job so we can all sign up to get our free magazine? If you don't have an answer and something better then shut the hell up!!



    I'd suggest Gunowners of America, but since it's mentioned every time this topic comes up and you've missed it every time, I doubt that you'd see it this time.

    Maybe if I make it bigger.



    http://gunowners.org/
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dennisnielsen
    Some hate the NRA because they ARE the biggest dog in the fight to keep our guns.

    Quoting what Joseph Stahlin said again
    dissension* from within.

    *disagreement; especially : partisan and contentious quarreling


    No, it's because they fight against liberty.
  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 35,988 ******
    edited November -1
    I am a Life Member of the NRA, for many years now.
  • SGSG Member Posts: 7,548
    edited November -1
    Armed constitutional Americans= pit bull

    NRA= leashed pit bull

    Armed Americans with no understanding of the 2nd= neutered dog
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
    quote:Originally posted by USN_Airdale

    like i said !!

    Negotiable Rights Association



    Why don't you post the name and address of YOUR organization that does a better job so we can all sign up to get our free magazine? If you don't have an answer and something better then shut the hell up!!


    There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

    Who do you think took the McDonald case to the Supreme Court?

    GOA and CATO.

    They took them arguing for a Privileges and Immunities incorporation of the 2nd, which would have affirmed the individual right that is the 2nd Amendment.

    The NRA jumped in at the very last minute and argued for a 'Due Process of Law' incorporation of the 2nd.

    Due Process of Law means exactly what it sounds like it means. The right to keep and bear arms is, under the McDonald decision, reduced to legislated access to firearms, which codifies into law virtually any (in the words of Scalia) licensing, restrictions or regulation that a governmental entity desires absent a total ban.

    If you have looked into the issue at all, you can quickly find where the NRA has supported and encouraged governmental involvement in setting legislated access to firearms. It serves well an organization that is looking for money to work the political process, but each and every layer of law created by the NRA and Government, even if it appears positive on the surface, merely re-affirms that Government has the power to dictate what ever the hell it wants.

    The NRA has been a huge net negative regarding the individual right expressed in the second. That some argue it supports legislation that makes certain things legal is either extreme short-sightedness, willful ignorance, or a mindset that is agreement with the Constitutional power of Government to be involved in every facet of firearms buying, selling, possession and use.

    Open your mind. Look at the GOA. Look at the Second Amendment Foundation.

    The NRA has actively worked against the true intent of the 2nd Amendment each and every day since the mid 1930s. It has actively worked to bring government into the equation, negating what should be that individual right.

    The NRA is not the best option we have. It doesn't even approach acceptable.

    It has done more damage to the 2nd Amendment than Sarah Brady could ever hope to accomplish.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • DirtyDawgDirtyDawg Member Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
    quote:Originally posted by USN_Airdale

    like i said !!

    Negotiable Rights Association



    Why don't you post the name and address of YOUR organization that does a better job so we can all sign up to get our free magazine? If you don't have an answer and something better then shut the hell up!!


    There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

    Who do you think took the McDonald case to the Supreme Court?

    GOA and CATO.

    They took them arguing for a Privileges and Immunities incorporation of the 2nd, which would have affirmed the individual right that is the 2nd Amendment.

    The NRA jumped in at the very last minute and argued for a 'Due Process of Law' incorporation of the 2nd.

    Due Process of Law means exactly what it sounds like it means. The right to keep and bear arms is, under the McDonald decision, reduced to legislated access to firearms, which codifies into law virtually any (in the words of Scalia) licensing, restrictions or regulation that a governmental entity desires absent a total ban.

    If you have looked into the issue at all, you can quickly find where the NRA has supported and encouraged governmental involvement in setting legislated access to firearms. It serves well an organization that is looking for money to work the political process, but each and every layer of law created by the NRA and Government, even if it appears positive on the surface, merely re-affirms that Government has the power to dictate what ever the hell it wants.

    The NRA has been a huge net negative regarding the individual right expressed in the second. That some argue it supports legislation that makes certain things legal is either extremely short-sightedness, willful ignorance, or a mindset that is agreement with the Constitutional power of Government to be involved in every facet of firearms buying, selling, possession and use.

    Open you mind. Look at the GOA. Look at the Second Amendment Foundation.

    The NRA has actively worked against the true intent of the 2nd Amendment each and every since the mid 1930s. It has actively worked to bring government into the equation, negating what should be that individual right.

    The NRA is not the best option we have. It doesn't even approach acceptable.

    It has done more damage to the 2nd Amendment than Sarah Brady could ever hope to accomplish.




    +10,000 Well said/conveyed. But sheep will be sheep. These facts are terribly difficult to grasp when you have been brainwashed your entire life by government ran public schools &government owned MSM; paired with the inability to do your own research and conduct your own reasoning & best judgement.
  • chiefrchiefr Member Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mere mention of the NRA really brings out the liberals and trolls on these forums. Liberals well known to spread propaganda and lies about the NRA.
  • DirtyDawgDirtyDawg Member Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    Mere mention of the NRA really brings out the liberals and trolls on these forums. Liberals well known to spread propaganda and lies about the NRA.




    READ the facts.
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,312 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    Mere mention of the NRA really brings out the liberals and trolls on these forums. Liberals well known to spread propaganda and lies about the NRA.


    Point out a lie in any of the above. I dare ya.
  • Smitty500magSmitty500mag Member Posts: 13,603 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by DirtyDawg

    +10,000 Well said/conveyed. But sheep will be sheep. These facts are terribly difficult to grasp when you have been brainwashed your entire life by government ran public schools &government owned MSM; paired with the inability to do your own research and conduct your own reasoning & best judgement.


    What sheep? I belong to all the organizations. Why limit it to just one? We need all we can get in everyone of them.
  • DirtyDawgDirtyDawg Member Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why belong to the NRA when factual evidence has been presented on how it has time and time again NEGOTIATED on the 2nd Amendment, and in several cases, when a restoration of Liberty was about to occur, the NRA steps in and hands power to the government.
  • chiefrchiefr Member Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    Mere mention of the NRA really brings out the liberals and trolls on these forums. Liberals well known to spread propaganda and lies about the NRA.




    Prophetic, didn't take long at all to prove my point.
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,312 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    Can't point anything out?
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
    quote:Originally posted by DirtyDawg

    +10,000 Well said/conveyed. But sheep will be sheep. These facts are terribly difficult to grasp when you have been brainwashed your entire life by government ran public schools &government owned MSM; paired with the inability to do your own research and conduct your own reasoning & best judgement.


    What sheep? I belong to all the organizations. Why limit it to just one? We need all we can get in everyone of them.




    I have never been a member of the NRA. Up until about 20 years ago, I really didn't think much about it, and frankly didn't really care that much. As I became more aware and started looking at things, it became apparent to me that supporting the NRA financially is supporting the one group that has contributed to the reduction of the 2nd Amendment more than any other.

    The range of which I am a member offers range membership for NRA members at a rate of $ 75.00 per year less than non-members. The range does not provide this rate to GOA Life Members or Defender's Club Members of the SAF, so I pay the additional $ 75.00. It is worth it to me to spend the extra money every to avoid supporting an organization that set the stage for Federal Gun Control Laws.

    Unless the organization dramatically changes, supporting them is working against our 2nd Amendment Rights, IMO. It will ensure that you can keep your hunting and sporting rifles and handguns, to be sure. It has, and will continue to make it more difficult for you and your descendants to protect yourselves from an increasingly militarized police force and an increasingly aggressive Federal Government.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • SGSG Member Posts: 7,548
    edited November -1
    You must of been looking in the mirror when you posted that dribble.quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    Mere mention of the NRA really brings out the liberals and trolls on these forums. Liberals well known to spread propaganda and lies about the NRA.
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
    Can't point anything out?


    Why else would he have resorted to personal attacks?
  • chiefrchiefr Member Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by SG
    You must of been looking in the mirror when you posted that dribble.quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    Mere mention of the NRA really brings out the liberals and trolls on these forums. Liberals well known to spread propaganda and lies about the NRA.




    Point proven again. The NRA may have its issues, but one thing is for certain. They do a heck of a lot more to preserve my 2A rights than people like you do by going to gun forums and spreading negativity.

    May I suggest the Huffington Post or the Center for American Progress. You thoughts will be welcome there.
  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    quote:Originally posted by SG
    You must of been looking in the mirror when you posted that dribble.quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    Mere mention of the NRA really brings out the liberals and trolls on these forums. Liberals well known to spread propaganda and lies about the NRA.




    Point proven again. The NRA has issues and one thing is for certain. They do a heck of a lot more to curtail my 2A rights than people like you do by going to gun forums and spreading truth.







    Sorry cheifr, I was being an internet smart *.
  • SGSG Member Posts: 7,548
    edited November -1
    Sorry,you didn't prove anything except how to dodge being called out on your claim of us lieing[;)]
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    quote:Originally posted by SG
    You must of been looking in the mirror when you posted that dribble.quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    Mere mention of the NRA really brings out the liberals and trolls on these forums. Liberals well known to spread propaganda and lies about the NRA.




    Point proven again. The NRA may have its issues, but one thing is for certain. They do a heck of a lot more to preserve my 2A rights than people like you do by going to gun forums and spreading negativity.

    May I suggest the Huffington Post or the Center for American Progress. You thoughts will be welcome there.






    Chiefr,

    I believe you to be sincere, but believe you to be sadly misinformed. The NRA has done a lot to legislate access to certain firearms.

    In doing so, it has trashed your 2nd Amendment Rights.

    There is a tremendous difference between asking the Government for permission to buy a firearms (the historic position of the NRA) and the individual right that is the 2nd Amendment.

    What most folks refuse to understand is that legislated access to firearms is pretty much the opposite of exercising a right of 'keeping' a firearm.

    Your path will ensure that you great-grandson will be able to own a nice over-under to bust up some clay disks. Our path is intended to make sure that an up-armed State will have to think twice about trying to take it or anything else away from him.

    Please think about it before simply negating the truths that have been presented to you here.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • SGSG Member Posts: 7,548
    edited November -1
    [:D]quote:Originally posted by skicat
    quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    quote:Originally posted by SG
    You must of been looking in the mirror when you posted that dribble.quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    Mere mention of the NRA really brings out the liberals and trolls on these forums. Liberals well known to spread propaganda and lies about the NRA.




    Point proven again. The NRA has issues and one thing is for certain. They do a heck of a lot more to curtail my 2A rights than people like you do by going to gun forums and spreading truth.








    Fixed it for you. You were so close.
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,478 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The NRA has never gotten a penny from me.
  • RobOzRobOz Member Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The NRA does far more good than bad. Heck, if it was not for the NRA we probably would not have a place to buy and sell guns on the internet, wouldn't be anything to sell. We would all be into classic cars and needle point.
  • chiefrchiefr Member Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As a life member of the NRA, I vote and make my voice heard. Call it cleansing or whatever.

    The NRA spent several million on campaign adds in my state over the course of the last two elections specifically targeting a three term and a second term socialist Senators who voted for the AWB and other gun control laws.

    The NRA with their aggressive AD campaign gave people in my state a 100% pro gun congress. A first.
    Their ADs were specific to gun issues only and made the audience aware the NRA was the sponsor.

    I never heard a peep from any other organization, or if other pro gun
    produced ADs, none were as vocal or visible as those of the NRA.

    The NRA also spent money in our state challenging Bloombergs anti 2A ADs.

    I for one praise the NRA for such political activism and am fully convinced their efforts help rid our state of a number of anti gun socialists.
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by chiefr
    As a life member of the NRA, I vote and make my voice heard. Call it cleansing or whatever.

    The NRA spent several million on campaign adds in my state over the course of the last two elections specifically targeting a three term and a second term socialist Senators who voted for the AWB and other gun control laws.

    The NRA with their aggressive AD campaign gave people in my state a 100% pro gun congress. A first.
    Their ADs were specific to gun issues only and made the audience aware the NRA was the sponsor.

    I never heard a peep from any other organization, or if other pro gun
    produced ADs, none were as vocal or visible as those of the NRA.

    The NRA also spent money in our state challenging Bloombergs anti 2A ADs.

    I for one praise the NRA for such political activism and am fully convinced their efforts help rid our state of a number of anti gun socialists.



    Interesting. Oddly the NRA was totally absent last fall in my state when big money interests pushed through a Universal Background Check Initiative. The SAF and GOA were not absent.

    Your example, however, points to exactly what I have been pointing out and exactly why I know the falsehood of the NRA's position. If you look at the big picture, in your state, the NRA poured a lot of donated dollars into campaigns for people that would vote the way the NRA wants them to vote when they exercise an unconstitutional power the NRA worked to grant them.

    By working to give Government the power to regulate, the NRA has created a need that they now purport to be ones to fill. It is hypocrisy at its finest, IMO.

    In 1989, because we had just finished a small project in China, I was invited to give a talk to a group of about 50 Chinese business that were visiting our area investigating potential partnerships.

    I followed two speakers. The first was a man who had opened up a couple of McDonalds franchises in China. The second was a man who was opening up a Chinese branch of a Heart Institute as part of one or our local hospitals.

    I started my talk by warning them to watch out for us as you can see from the two previous speakers, that our first step will be to create a need and our next will be to position ourselves to fill that need.

    (It was the only time those 50 folks smiled and laughed during the entire 3 hours of the program.)


    This is what the NRA has done for 80 years. They collect funding to fix a problem they themselves helped create.

    As stated previously, we would be a lot better off, IMO, if the organization would have stuck to its education and safety programs and stayed the hell of a 2nd Amendment policy they either don't understand or have deliberately undermined in the interest of money.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • Smitty500magSmitty500mag Member Posts: 13,603 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by armilite
    The NRA has never gotten a penny from me.


    You, Obama, Hillary, Slick Willie, and Al Sharpton all have something in common. You must be so proud.
  • Dads3040Dads3040 Member Posts: 13,552 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I belong to all three major organizations, and see little reason to do otherwise. None of them are perfect, but each has attributes that it brings to the table.

    I certainly am not going to alter from that given what passes for arguments here. Especially the C&P artists among us. If you can't make your own statement logically and clearly, best to sit back and leave the discussion to the others who can.

    Or post pictures of puppies. Those are always good.
  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 35,988 ******
    edited November -1
  • DirtyDawgDirtyDawg Member Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    NRA = Negotiated Rights Association

    I choose to only support organizations that support the 2nd amendment in its entirety. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Period.

    Look into the GOA or SAF. Both are leaps and bounds better than the NRA.

    I guess I need to resurrect the historical post of how the NRA has compromised the 2nd over the last 5 to 8 decades.
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