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asked to do a sad thing
shilowar
Member Posts: 38,807 ✭✭✭
My Dad is in his 80's and recently had back surgery, specifically his spine. This surgery did not go well and my dad has been in horrendous pain for a week now,. My sister texted yesterday letting me know that when I visit next week end that my mom wants me to take the two guns he has home with me. She's afraid he may do something impulsive because of the pain.
My dad is not a "gun" guy. He bought an 870 a few years ago, because he figured he couldn't physically defend my mom anymore. It is the first gun he has ever owned. Anyways a couple years ago I gave him a model 65, took him to the range and got him feeling comfortable with it, he has Hornady Critical Defense .38 loads for it, he didn't really like the .357s. Anyways he's not attached to his two guns like I or many of you are attached to your guns. But I still feel sad that he is aging to a state that activities need to be taken away from him. He has already recognized on his own that he can't drive at night anymore, and assuming he survives this current medical problem he probably won't be driving period much longer.
My dad is not a "gun" guy. He bought an 870 a few years ago, because he figured he couldn't physically defend my mom anymore. It is the first gun he has ever owned. Anyways a couple years ago I gave him a model 65, took him to the range and got him feeling comfortable with it, he has Hornady Critical Defense .38 loads for it, he didn't really like the .357s. Anyways he's not attached to his two guns like I or many of you are attached to your guns. But I still feel sad that he is aging to a state that activities need to be taken away from him. He has already recognized on his own that he can't drive at night anymore, and assuming he survives this current medical problem he probably won't be driving period much longer.
Comments
What are the long term prospects?
I hope it goes better for your dad.
What are the long term prospects?
Don't know, he has spinal stenosis, and this is the second surgery to open up the spinal canal. His pain right now is worse than it was pre-surgery, it effects his ability to walk has he has severe pain in one of his legs. He's pretty much in constant agony right now, the narcotics aren't even touching the pain, and he can't tolerate opiate based pain meds or oxycontin.
He is a retired physician who spent his adult life helping to fix others, and it is tough to see him not getting relief.
I hope it goes better for your dad.
What are the long term prospects?
thanks!
wrap your brain around that for a minute
a few days later he was put in a drug induced coma, died a few weeks later after they diagnosed it as a staph infection that had already ate his organs, in 1999 not much staph infection going around
wishing the best for the both of you
Neal
I may differ from all else on here, and I am not speaking from a lack of sympathy, and in fact quite the opposite: I think your father should have the right and means to end his life should he so choose.
One's life is the most fundamental, most personal belonging a person has. I've seen many a person linger in terrible pain, in the terrifying fog of dementia, in the dignity-robbing horror of nursing homes. None of them has seemed happy or enjoying life. Almost all of them have seemed quite miserable.
As a society we have fully accepted and embraced the idea that every other animal on Earth should be put down if it is miserable and suffering. Every other animal, be it a horse, an ape, a dog, a bird--if it is hurting and there will not be an end to its suffering, we put it down. We fully accept that there are times and situations where hastening death is a good thing. In extraordinary situations, this has been done in times of war for human beings.
And yet, we offer no such comfort to regular folks who have come close to the end of a long life and who are in terrible pain. And what is worse, even beyond denying them the assistance of another to quickly and peacefully end their lives, we deny them the means to even do it themselves. That, in my opinion, is horrifying.
If your father is in terrible pain, if he is not going to get better, if he's in his 80's and has lived a good life, perhaps he should be allowed to have the means of ending his life close at hand. I know if I was in his situation, I would want that.
And by the way, that stuff about suicide being a mortal sin, is to me just a bit more horse puckey from the Catholic Church. The Bible is a book, and it we read it the way we read all other books, we read it to get the central message, the most important ideas, the main point. To my reading of it, the main idea is to be kind to others, to help other people, to worship God, and to be a good person. I think I got the main idea, and I can't imagine a just and loving God looking upon an old man in terrible pain and condemning him to hell for choosing to end his life.
Again, I'm very sorry to hear of your troubles. Your father will be in my thoughts. I offer these ideas not out of callousness, but out of mercy.
My folks are devout Catholics, in his right mind he would never intentional kill himself as that is a mortal sin. However he is apparently on heavy narcotics due to the pain so he is not necessarily in his right mind at all times. Fortunately both my sisters(RN and NP) are nurses, as was my mom so they are their pretty much around the clock taking care of him.
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the Pope, and the church have changed their stance on suicide. They accepted that anyone committing suicide is not in a mental state to realize exactly what they are doing. Maybe I'm wrong, and besides, it isn't something you want for your Dad anyway. I hope and pray for you and yours.
Clouder..
shilowar, I'm very sorry to hear of the pain your father is in. It sounds terrible.
I may differ from all else on here, and I am not speaking from a lack of sympathy, and in fact quite the opposite: I think your father should have the right and means to end his life should he so choose.
One's life is the most fundamental, most personal belonging a person has. I've seen many a person linger in terrible pain, in the terrifying fog of dementia, in the dignity-robbing horror of nursing homes. None of them has seemed happy or enjoying life. Almost all of them have seemed quite miserable.
As a society we have fully accepted and embraced the idea that every other animal on Earth should be put down if it is miserable and suffering. Every other animal, be it a horse, an ape, a dog, a bird--if it is hurting and there will not be an end to its suffering, we put it down. We fully accept that there are times and situations where hastening death is a good thing. In extraordinary situations, this has been done in times of war for human beings.
And yet, we offer no such comfort to regular folks who have come close to the end of a long life and who are in terrible pain. And what is worse, even beyond denying them the assistance of another to quickly and peacefully end their lives, we deny them the means to even do it themselves. That, in my opinion, is horrifying.
If your father is in terrible pain, if he is not going to get better, if he's in his 80's and has lived a good life, perhaps he should be allowed to have the means of ending his life close at hand. I know if I was in his situation, I would want that.
And by the way, that stuff about suicide being a mortal sin, is to me just a bit more horse puckey from the Catholic Church. The Bible is a book, and it we read it the way we read all other books, we read it to get the central message, the most important ideas, the main point. To my reading of it, the main idea is to be kind to others, to help other people, to worship God, and to be a good person. I think I got the main idea, and I can't imagine a just and loving God looking upon an old man in terrible pain and condemning him to hell for choosing to end his life.
Again, I'm very sorry to hear of your troubles. Your father will be in my thoughts. I offer these ideas not out of callousness, but out of mercy.
You have to think of the people you are effecting by doing that. I am sure loved ones feel the effects from people who take that road for a lifetime. I hope your father gets better.
MIKE
There are things they never told us about getting old. Last month I had to sit my wife down, and explain that she could not safely drive a car any more, and she needed to trade her driver's license for an ID card. CNS disease has made her old before her time. Loss of independence when you can't drive any more is severe- especially living in the country.
Your dad is going thru different, but similar changes in his life. I hope things go well for all of you.
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
I agree with mlincoln. If he decides to end his own life he should be able to do so.
+1 As my father-in-law who was in a lot of pain before his death would say, there is worse things than death.
If it occurred in a vacuum then I would agree, I am all about self determination. However my mother is the one that will experience it, she'd be the one to find him with horror of a gunshot wound and live with it the rest of her remaining life. My parents believe suicide is mortal sin, and his mind is clouded with narcotics. If she wants the guns out of the house then that's what is going to happen. If he chooses to end his life he can put too many Fentanyl patches on.
He received a cortisone shot the other day that seems to have taken an edge off the inflammation and pain so he is in a better state then he was. What the long term prognosis is has yet to be determined.
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
My folks are devout Catholics, in his right mind he would never intentional kill himself as that is a mortal sin. However he is apparently on heavy narcotics due to the pain so he is not necessarily in his right mind at all times. Fortunately both my sisters(RN and NP) are nurses, as was my mom so they are their pretty much around the clock taking care of him.
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the Pope, and the church have changed their stance on suicide. They accepted that anyone committing suicide is not in a mental state to realize exactly what they are doing. Maybe I'm wrong, and besides, it isn't something you want for your Dad anyway. I hope and pray for you and yours.
Yes there is a qualification or acknowledgement that has occurred over time with regard to suicide.
All too soon I shall be following in your footsteps. I already have all Dad's guns, minus one .22 rifle. . .
I hope your father gets better and that his pain goes away. Take care.