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W signs REAL ID act
bigride203
Member Posts: 625 ✭✭✭✭
Any thoughts on the recent legislation signed by W that complicates drivers license renewals and makes your drivers license a form of national id card?
Sounds like big brother can be an elephant or an *!
You dudes get lost now, ya hear!
Sounds like big brother can be an elephant or an *!
You dudes get lost now, ya hear!
Comments
And this surprises you because?
But hey, Big Brother is here to stay and we can all thank the GOP-dominated federal government for it.
And all I can say is, "Bush won - THANK GOD!"
I'll remember you said it was no big deal when they pass a national firearms registry.
"No big deal... like a passport, having a gun will be 100% voluntary."
chappsyny: There is a major difference here, which is that a driver's license is all but required to live the modern life. And you don't exactly have a right to live a primitive life, either, so you're really forced into this. It's only as voluntary as eating.
Well said, not to mention I had to provide it to get my driver's license in the first place. It would seem that the DL with photo would be a better ID than the birth cert. Another redundant time wasting hassle brought to you by a government that wastes everything.
When you get a drivers license you are asking the state for permission to engage in an activity that is a privilege. A select few states, in their haphazard issuance of DL's to illegal immigrants have ruined it for everyone. Thanks to AZ, CA and a few other states this privilege is now going to cost you an additional 30 seconds every few years as you present your birth certificate along with the rest of your info for a renewal. If you don't like it then come up with another way to prevent illegals from getting licenses or get used to the idea of illegals having licenses in the first place.
</sarcasm>
Merc
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. " - Al Capone, (1899-1947)
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
OBEY.
CONSUME.
I agree that it's not an ideal situation and will add time to what should be a quick license renewal. Just about every single person on this board has come out against illegal immigration and against issuing drivers licenses to illegals. It's fine to pay lip service to the idea, but how are illegals to be prevented from getting a license if no proof of citizenship is shown at the DMV? If you don't want to show a birth certificate then bring a US passport. You aren't being oppressed because there is no right to drive a vehicle, no matter how inconvenient your life would be without a license.
When you get a drivers license you are asking the state for permission to engage in an activity that is a privilege. A select few states, in their haphazard issuance of DL's to illegal immigrants have ruined it for everyone. Thanks to AZ, CA and a few other states this privilege is now going to cost you an additional 30 seconds every few years as you present your birth certificate along with the rest of your info for a renewal. If you don't like it then come up with another way to prevent illegals from getting licenses or get used to the idea of illegals having licenses in the first place.
Why in the world do I have to produce these documents EVERY time I go for renewal? As if I have suddenly changed nationality!![:(!] Communists!!! Lets give the guvmint MORE controll!!!!!!!!![xx(]
I wish the South would have won.[:(]
"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains...No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue: and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."-Patrick Henry
SLEEP.
OBEY.
CONSUME.
This is what they want. Sad but true. And most people just fall right in and obey the TYRANTS that run this great land! Did we not fight a war against tyrrany once? I could be mistaken.
Actually, I'm surprised it took 200 years to foget the revolution and what this country was built upon. Normally, Americans forget these kinds of things in a matter of a week or two.
"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains...No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue: and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."-Patrick Henry
quote:Originally posted by chappsyny
I agree that it's not an ideal situation and will add time to what should be a quick license renewal. Just about every single person on this board has come out against illegal immigration and against issuing drivers licenses to illegals. It's fine to pay lip service to the idea, but how are illegals to be prevented from getting a license if no proof of citizenship is shown at the DMV? If you don't want to show a birth certificate then bring a US passport. You aren't being oppressed because there is no right to drive a vehicle, no matter how inconvenient your life would be without a license.
When you get a drivers license you are asking the state for permission to engage in an activity that is a privilege. A select few states, in their haphazard issuance of DL's to illegal immigrants have ruined it for everyone. Thanks to AZ, CA and a few other states this privilege is now going to cost you an additional 30 seconds every few years as you present your birth certificate along with the rest of your info for a renewal. If you don't like it then come up with another way to prevent illegals from getting licenses or get used to the idea of illegals having licenses in the first place.
Why in the world do I have to produce these documents EVERY time I go for renewal? As if I have suddenly changed nationality!![:(!] Communists!!! Lets give the guvmint MORE controll!!!!!!!!![xx(]
I wish the South would have won.[:(]
"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains...No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue: and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."-Patrick Henry
With the current system there are tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of illegals running around with drivers licenses. How would simply presenting the old license weed these people out when it came time to renew?
I'm still waiting for anybody to propose a way to keep illegals from getting DL's. Anybody? For all the whining about illegal aliens in this country people, much like the GOP seem reluctant to do anything about it. Talk is cheap. I'd settle for someone demonstrating how presenting a birth certificate at renewal time is in any way an infringement when driving is NOT a right. Driving a vehicle is not on the same plane as firearm use and ownership. There is no right to drive, no guarantee against infringement of any sort, and no guarantee that the DMV will get you in, renewed and on your way home in a timely fashion.
For the first time in years the GOP has taken an affirmative step to address one of the many facets of the illegal immigrant problem and still people bellyache because they may be delayed at renewal time. Maybe it will be inconvenient but until someone comes up with something better, that's how it is. Yesterday the same people on here whining about being delayed at the DMV would have been the first to join in the call for change if the topic of conversation were illegals with driver's licenses. It's sickening that those who spout off the most about rights and the need to address the problems with our southern border become hypocrites and blowhards when the solution affects them in any way.
If you have a way to keep drivers licenses out of illegals wallets then speak up.
making all the states use a standard format/layout for their license isnt a bad idea at all. easire to tell the fakes from the authentics and so on. and it doesnt harm anything so i guess thats not an issue
requiring more legitimate, not quite as easily faked documents to get a license sounds like a decent idea to me.
all in all, i think that people, includiong members here, are letting their paranoia get to them. this isnt going to change life for the average man any, save maybe a small delay to renew the license every FIVE years(which, btw, will probably average out to about 8sec/yr). people get all wrapped up in the government taking over our lives. get over it. i'll start worrying when i have to get a number tatooed on my arm/.....
lets consider this for a minute. all states have access to a database that list people who have outstanding warrants and such. so if an officer in houston swipes your license, they will know of you have a warrant in boston. since this system is already in place, its nothing new
making all the states use a standard format/layout for their license isnt a bad idea at all. easire to tell the fakes from the authentics and so on. and it doesnt harm anything so i guess thats not an issue
requiring more legitimate, not quite as easily faked documents to get a license sounds like a decent idea to me.
all in all, i think that people, includiong members here, are letting their paranoia get to them. this isnt going to change life for the average man any, save maybe a small delay to renew the license every FIVE years(which, btw, will probably average out to about 8sec/yr). people get all wrapped up in the government taking over our lives. get over it. i'll start worrying when i have to get a number tatooed on my arm/.....
In case you haven't noticed, a good number of powers previously relegated solely to the states (including issuance of driver's licenses) are now being directed by the Federal government. Montana overturned its "No Speed Limit" policy not because of any increased numbers of accidents or citations, but because the Feds threatened to withhold highway construction money if they didn't. If concern over ever-increasing, unchecked Federal powers as evidenced in the Patriot and Homeland Security acts is paranoia, then I am certainly one paranoid sumbiatch.
...i'll start worrying when i have to get a number tatooed on my arm/.....
Might be just a TAD on the late side by then KEV...
Mateomasfeo
"I am what I am!" - Popeye
people lose id cards all the time...what would be the obvious solution?...that tatoo or chip under your skin isn't that far away...it all makes perfect sense in the cause to avoid another 9/11...personally an oppressive federal government is already under my skin...yeah, i said it OPPRESSIVE
but then again, i'm just being paranoid
You dudes get lost now, ya hear!
You are a *-nuff said.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
quote:Originally posted by KEVD18
lets consider this for a minute. all states have access to a database that list people who have outstanding warrants and such. so if an officer in houston swipes your license, they will know of you have a warrant in boston. since this system is already in place, its nothing new
making all the states use a standard format/layout for their license isnt a bad idea at all. easire to tell the fakes from the authentics and so on. and it doesnt harm anything so i guess thats not an issue
requiring more legitimate, not quite as easily faked documents to get a license sounds like a decent idea to me.
all in all, i think that people, includiong members here, are letting their paranoia get to them. this isnt going to change life for the average man any, save maybe a small delay to renew the license every FIVE years(which, btw, will probably average out to about 8sec/yr). people get all wrapped up in the government taking over our lives. get over it. i'll start worrying when i have to get a number tatooed on my arm/.....
In case you haven't noticed, a good number of powers previously relegated solely to the states (including issuance of driver's licenses) are now being directed by the Federal government. Montana overturned its "No Speed Limit" policy not because of any increased numbers of accidents or citations, but because the Feds threatened to withhold highway construction money if they didn't. If concern over ever-increasing, unchecked Federal powers as evidenced in the Patriot and Homeland Security acts is paranoia, then I am certainly one paranoid sumbiatch.
The feds have been assuming powers that are constitutionally reserved to the states for a long time- this is nothing new, and most just assume let the fed do as it wishes, the constitution be damned.
Most folk are *- like chappsyny.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
This guy "chap" opened the gates...and is inviting in the wolves for the kill.....freedom and privacy are mere words in a dictonary to people like that.
We musn't address the borders..being open and all....and sure as hell don't give any credit to peace officers...who I expect can tell in a moment whether someone is a wet-back....No...we just force decent citizens to line up and take a national id card.
The government is NOT INTERESTED IN ILLEGAL ALIENS...they are only interested in total control over the last remments of freedom on earth.
Enjoy your Fourth of July...all you "Sons of Freedom"......gag a maggot.
SLEEP.
OBEY.
CONSUME.
this reminds me of a rather large,..lazy,..very hungry puppy i once had
"Aim small, Miss small"
chappsyny-
You are a *-nuff said.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
That's the best you can do? I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I've read some of your other posts. It's one thing to be a self reitous blowhard and it's another to try and address the problem that exists. When you have ANY ideas for doing the ladder feel free to post them. I have more respect for people trying to do something about a problem then sitting around cry babying about being held up at the DMV for something that isn't a right to begin with. WHAAAAAA... I have to show ID. WHAAAAAAAA.
As a member of FAIR we pushed very hard on our "Representatives" in Congress to get this legislation through.
And you can be sure Bush and many others did not want this because it is a good start on border protection by making sure that non citizens that have no business here will not be given that valuable piece of validation that so many of us use as identification.
Just last night on the news we learned that the administration tried to stifle the news that when Bush started talking about an amnesty for these rats that they came pouring in even larger numbers and when those that were caught by the BP were questioned they said they were coming because of the "Bush Amnesty Plan".
So this was starting to become a political liability and they wanted to silence this.
Well i live on a border state and i see very clearly what's going down.
I want these people out of here and if it means that Juan and Juanita cant get a drivers license that's fine by me.
You people better wake up and take a hard look at how Mexico is encouraging this BS and it is not in this nations interest even if it means you will be out a little more money to have someone cut your yard.
Hey man here in Houston we have several flea markets that print out fake drivers license and Social Security cards every weekend for these cretins who dont give a damn about this nation but who just want to suck off the tit of the sow.
I will do all i can to within legal means to stop this rape of our nations borders.
mike
quote:Originally posted by salzo
chappsyny-
You are a *-nuff said.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
That's the best you can do?
No, I can do better. But you dont deserve it, *.
You have demonstrated on this thread, that you have absolutely no idea what you are speaking of, and have no regard for the constitution.
The amount of poop you have spewed out of your * mouth is so tremendous, I wouldnt know where to start digging.
Sometimes its best when encountering a pile of * poop, instead of trying to clean it up,it is just easier to say, "Oh I see a * has been here."
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
quote:Originally posted by chappsyny
quote:Originally posted by salzo
chappsyny-
You are a *-nuff said.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
That's the best you can do?
No, I can do better. But you dont deserve it, *.
You have demonstrated on this thread, that you have absolutely no idea what you are speaking of, and have no regard for the constitution.
The amount of poop you have spewed out of your * mouth is so tremendous, I wouldnt know where to start digging.
Sometimes its best when encountering a pile of * poop, instead of trying to clean it up,it is just easier to say, "Oh I see a * has been here."
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
After a quick search for some of your previous threads I did not find a single one where you provided a constructive solution to ANYTHING. Not one. You simply engage in whining and fantasy league politics while doing precious little for any actual cause. I hope you are a better musician then debater because your inability to address any of the points that have been mentioned in this thread makes you look ignorant. Especially when you resort to childish name calling instead of addressing the points that have been raised.
Put up or shut up, if you can. Lets hear your solution O defender of freedom! Do you have any ideas or do you just sit in your little room on your computer and whine about rights and freedoms without doing anything to further any cause? Ignorant blowhards who sit around congratulating each other on how pro-this and pro-that they are are more dangerous then the federal government could ever dream of being. You are long on talk and very short on ideas, as evidenced by your immediate jump to name calling. If this forum were 4th grade you would fit right in.
After a quick search for some of your previous threads I did not find a single one where you provided a constructive solution to ANYTHING. Not one. You simply engage in whining and fantasy league politics while doing precious little for any actual cause. I hope you are a better musician then debater because your inability to address any of the points that have been mentioned in this thread makes you look ignorant. Especially when you resort to childish name calling instead of addressing the points that have been raised.
Put up or shut up, if you can. Lets hear your solution O defender of freedom! Do you have any ideas or do you just sit in your little room on your computer and whine about rights and freedoms without doing anything to further any cause? Ignorant blowhards who sit around congratulating each other on how pro-this and pro-that they are are more dangerous then the federal government could ever dream of being. You are long on talk and very short on ideas, as evidenced by your immediate jump to name calling. If this forum were 4th grade you would fit right in.
Ohhh, I see a * has been here.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
quote:Originally posted by chappsyny
After a quick search for some of your previous threads I did not find a single one where you provided a constructive solution to ANYTHING. Not one. You simply engage in whining and fantasy league politics while doing precious little for any actual cause. I hope you are a better musician then debater because your inability to address any of the points that have been mentioned in this thread makes you look ignorant. Especially when you resort to childish name calling instead of addressing the points that have been raised.
Put up or shut up, if you can. Lets hear your solution O defender of freedom! Do you have any ideas or do you just sit in your little room on your computer and whine about rights and freedoms without doing anything to further any cause? Ignorant blowhards who sit around congratulating each other on how pro-this and pro-that they are are more dangerous then the federal government could ever dream of being. You are long on talk and very short on ideas, as evidenced by your immediate jump to name calling. If this forum were 4th grade you would fit right in.
Ohhh, I see a * has been here.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Thank you for proving my point. You are an empty suit devoid of anything resembling an idea. Your inability to articulate a point on anything is a disgrace to the idea of freedom. At best you are a poser.
Your inability to articulate a point on anything is a disgrace to the idea of freedom.
Look at the lover of big government chappsyny * wax on about freedom.
You are a [:o)]. Go join the circus.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
I have no respect for a man of inaction and cowardice as you have demonstrated yourself to be. When you have the foggiest idea of how to advance a cause let me know. Until then I am through with your 4th grade antics.
correctly applied,..I beleive this and the other offerings from our good friends in R&D can greatly reduce our alien problem.[}:)]
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
Of course I'm out of my mind. It's dark and scary in there.
I have been screaming about this happening in Missouri & have even hired Lawyers to challenge the law in court, & not 1 person has said I back you up on this.
chappsyny,
its easy to see that you are a strong GWB fan, so I won't even begin
to talk with you on that level, but how can you sit there & defend
anyone that classes you & your family with the enemy, did you not show your birth Cert. when you first got your DL ??
There are a few in the US today that didn't most are in their 80s
& GOD forbid that they don't figure out how to make a bomb out of
Arth. Med.
I have a trucking co. & was told how the CDL would make our highways safer.
Lets look at the facts,
if you compare the # of serious truck wrecks in 1980 to the # of serious truck wrecks in 2004 you will find that if you use the averages per 100 trucks on the road that the CDL increased serious truck wrecks by over 1000%
but the way the Feds show serious truck wrecks are down. but they
take total wrecks as the final #
their are over 1500% more class 8 trucks on the road today than in 1980
But if you feel their accounting is correct, than by all means please let me sell you something. {car , truck , gun , house } anything
If you feel the goverment has the right to control your every move , than you will fit right in with the new 1 world order.
But instead , you say that nobody has a better idea, well how about this.
If the people at the DL office had done their job in the first place there would NOT be a problem.
Personally I will fight till the last dog dies to NOT allow this or any corrupt , lieing goverment to take away my Const. Rights.
Oh & by the way, this new deal Violates 4 of your Const Rights given to you by True Americans { our forefathers}
#1 Infringment of Privacy
#2 Equal Protection
#3 Denial free access
#4 Property without due process of Law
So there you go big boy, its your choice stand up like a man or lay down like sheep, just don't expect the Men to not step on you when your laying there thinking how great & safe this new law makes you
Dan
You guys crack me up.
I have been screaming about this happening in Missouri & have even hired Lawyers to challenge the law in court, & not 1 person has said I back you up on this.
chappsyny,
its easy to see that you are a strong GWB fan, so I won't even begin
to talk with you on that level, but how can you sit there & defend
anyone that classes you & your family with the enemy, did you not show your birth Cert. when you first got your DL ??
There are a few in the US today that didn't most are in their 80s
& GOD forbid that they don't figure out how to make a bomb out of
Arth. Med.
I have a trucking co. & was told how the CDL would make our highways safer.
Lets look at the facts,
if you compare the # of serious truck wrecks in 1980 to the # of serious truck wrecks in 2004 you will find that if you use the averages per 100 trucks on the road that the CDL increased serious truck wrecks by over 1000%
but the way the Feds show serious truck wrecks are down. but they
take total wrecks as the final #
their are over 1500% more class 8 trucks on the road today than in 1980
But if you feel their accounting is correct, than by all means please let me sell you something. {car , truck , gun , house } anything
If you feel the goverment has the right to control your every move , than you will fit right in with the new 1 world order.
But instead , you say that nobody has a better idea, well how about this.
If the people at the DL office had done their job in the first place there would NOT be a problem.
Personally I will fight till the last dog dies to NOT allow this or any corrupt , lieing goverment to take away my Const. Rights.
Oh & by the way, this new deal Violates 4 of your Const Rights given to you by True Americans { our forefathers}
#1 Infringment of Privacy
#2 Equal Protection
#3 Denial free access
#4 Property without due process of Law
So there you go big boy, its your choice stand up like a man or lay down like sheep, just don't expect the Men to not step on you when your laying there thinking how great & safe this new law makes you
Dan
I appreciate the fact-based response. My position has nothing to do with being a GWB fan. In fact, much of what he does angers me to no end (the guest worker program, among other things). My original position was that having a DL is not a right. It has never been, even if not having one would be very inconvenient to a persons lifestyle. If I believed that having a DL is a right then I would agree whole heartedly that having to present additional documentation to exercise that right is improper, just like I believe that the 4473, NICS checks and any sort of license to own or carry a firearm are improper. I don't even think that violent felons should be deprived their 2nd ammendment rights after released from prison. However, if having a driver's license is not a right but a privlidge then viewing this new requirement as an infringement becomes more difficult. Do I think it will be inconvenient at renewal time? Yes. Do I think this is on par with gun control as some people here seem to think? No. It all boil down to a perception of what is a right vs. what is a privlidge.
A better solution would have been to simply pass a law on the federal level invalidating all drivers licenses issued to illegals. Then if stoped or otherwise caught the illegal could be charged with driving without a license, fined/jailed, thier licese torn up and the illegal deported. Sadly this did not occur. I agree with the desire to keep DL's out of the hands of illegals. Unfortunatly thanks to states like AZ and CA that don't share my desire more drastic action was taken.
On this I AGREE 100%
I will bring this up with my lawyers when I talk with them this week
We do however need to get this new law repealed. in Mo it is law
The Missouri Department of Revenue is required to implement the provisions
> of RSMo 302.177.6
that is the senate bill #1233
Dan
so BB can watch us all.[;)]
"Aim small, Miss small"
BabyBearis watching us?????[:o)][}:)]
If your beliefs aren't based in fact, TRUTH is the first casualty...
Common Sense is an Uncommon Virtue.
If a border state has a problem with illegals possessing a drivers license, then deal with it on a state level. Make their lives so miserable that they move to a different state. Then that state must take action. Must the federal gov't legislate everything?
danlittle,
drop me an email via my profile and i'm with ya...i'm from the st.louis metro area
You dudes get lost now, ya hear!
quote:Originally posted by danlittle
You guys crack me up.
I have been screaming about this happening in Missouri & have even hired Lawyers to challenge the law in court, & not 1 person has said I back you up on this.
chappsyny,
its easy to see that you are a strong GWB fan, so I won't even begin
to talk with you on that level, but how can you sit there & defend
anyone that classes you & your family with the enemy, did you not show your birth Cert. when you first got your DL ??
There are a few in the US today that didn't most are in their 80s
& GOD forbid that they don't figure out how to make a bomb out of
Arth. Med.
I have a trucking co. & was told how the CDL would make our highways safer.
Lets look at the facts,
if you compare the # of serious truck wrecks in 1980 to the # of serious truck wrecks in 2004 you will find that if you use the averages per 100 trucks on the road that the CDL increased serious truck wrecks by over 1000%
but the way the Feds show serious truck wrecks are down. but they
take total wrecks as the final #
their are over 1500% more class 8 trucks on the road today than in 1980
But if you feel their accounting is correct, than by all means please let me sell you something. {car , truck , gun , house } anything
If you feel the goverment has the right to control your every move , than you will fit right in with the new 1 world order.
But instead , you say that nobody has a better idea, well how about this.
If the people at the DL office had done their job in the first place there would NOT be a problem.
Personally I will fight till the last dog dies to NOT allow this or any corrupt , lieing goverment to take away my Const. Rights.
Oh & by the way, this new deal Violates 4 of your Const Rights given to you by True Americans { our forefathers}
#1 Infringment of Privacy
#2 Equal Protection
#3 Denial free access
#4 Property without due process of Law
So there you go big boy, its your choice stand up like a man or lay down like sheep, just don't expect the Men to not step on you when your laying there thinking how great & safe this new law makes you
Dan
I appreciate the fact-based response. My position has nothing to do with being a GWB fan. In fact, much of what he does angers me to no end (the guest worker program, among other things). My original position was that having a DL is not a right. It has never been, even if not having one would be very inconvenient to a persons lifestyle. If I believed that having a DL is a right then I would agree whole heartedly that having to present additional documentation to exercise that right is improper, just like I believe that the 4473, NICS checks and any sort of license to own or carry a firearm are improper. I don't even think that violent felons should be deprived their 2nd ammendment rights after released from prison. However, if having a driver's license is not a right but a privlidge then viewing this new requirement as an infringement becomes more difficult. Do I think it will be inconvenient at renewal time? Yes. Do I think this is on par with gun control as some people here seem to think? No. It all boil down to a perception of what is a right vs. what is a privlidge.
A better solution would have been to simply pass a law on the federal level invalidating all drivers licenses issued to illegals. Then if stoped or otherwise caught the illegal could be charged with driving without a license, fined/jailed, thier licese torn up and the illegal deported. Sadly this did not occur. I agree with the desire to keep DL's out of the hands of illegals. Unfortunatly thanks to states like AZ and CA that don't share my desire more drastic action was taken.
Those that would trade LIBERTY for SECURITY will soon have NIETHER,,,,,,
All you smart guys...promoting the latest freedom destroying Big Brother Nazi ideas. Sickening. Not smart enough to realize..THE GOVERNMENT MADE THE PROBLEM...by spending more money for God's sake defending South Korea's and Iraq's borders...THEN OUR OWN....ALLOWING this flood of barbarians into this country...SO YOU WOULD GET ON YOUR KNEES AND BEG THE GOVERNMENT TO RESTRICT OUR FREEDOM EVEN MORE..!!!!
You won't wise up..till you are being marched into the camps. The Founders mean NOTHING TO YOU...enjoy your beer and weiners this Fourth of July...laughingly still called "Independence Day"....