In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
AR 15 question
bpost
Member Posts: 32,449 ✭✭✭✭
Is the 3 round burst trigger that bushmaster is selling legal? I am interested in one but don't want any issues with it causing an extended stay in the pokey
Comments
Change ammo to something decent.
Merc
Wolf ammo SUCKS for AR-15s. Their chambers are just too tight for that crap.
Change ammo to something decent.
Merc
+1
I would not run that crap through any of my ARs.
quote:Originally posted by Mercury
Wolf ammo SUCKS for AR-15s. Their chambers are just too tight for that crap.
Change ammo to something decent.
Merc
+1
I would not run that crap through any of my ARs.
+2
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
quote:Originally posted by Mercury
Wolf ammo SUCKS for AR-15s. Their chambers are just too tight for that crap.
Change ammo to something decent.
Merc
+1
I would not run that crap through any of my ARs.
+2
What is the issue that starts making it short stroke? The chamber or the gas tube???
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
quote:Originally posted by Mercury
Wolf ammo SUCKS for AR-15s. Their chambers are just too tight for that crap.
Change ammo to something decent.
Merc
+1
I would not run that crap through any of my ARs.
+2
It should still cycle it though.
Jon
Has the chamber been inspected to see if there is build of the lacquer they use to coat their steel cases? Is it going fully into battery?
I will check to see, one gun is badly jammed from it and may have blown a case in half sticking another inside of it.
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
Has the chamber been inspected to see if there is build of the lacquer they use to coat their steel cases? Is it going fully into battery?
I will check to see, one gun is badly jammed from it and may have blown a case in half sticking another inside of it.
I have no personal experience with it, however years ago in a patrol rifle class it was strognly recommended not to use Wolf steel case in ARs because the lacquer will melt/crystalize in a hot chamber and build up over time. It is supposedly very difficult to clean it out. Might be something to check into.
Plus, you need to run them 'wet' if you insist on cheapo steel cased ammo in an AR.
I don't shoot steel cased in anything but an AK so I don't personally have these issues. Just some possibilities I have heard about.
Yes, lacquer can melt but usually when very hot and you leave a round in the chamber baking. Remember, even lower power 223 is higher pressure than 7.62X39 and Russian 223 ammo is basically 7.62X39 in a different size. AK47s were designed with over sized chambers and for steel cased ammo
Steel cases do not expand and contract like brass therefore do not seal the chamber as it should. AR15s are designed to operate with brass cases. Depending on chamber size many run fine with steel but its not lacquer build up that causes most problems it is carbon because the steel does not expand to seal the chamber like brass.
When carbon builds up stuck cases become more possible.
This is exaggerated in piston guns because the pressure on the bolt face is greater than a DI therefore more carbon is getting by and fouling the chamber.
The recent trend has been to tighter chambers for better accuracy (Think Wydle).
Like any ammo in different guns one tries things and if it works in one fine if not don't use that ammo.
Your gun may simply like brass cased ammo and if you don't give it what it wants, well, like a woman, it will make you wished you had
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
Has the chamber been inspected to see if there is build of the lacquer they use to coat their steel cases? Is it going fully into battery?
I will check to see, one gun is badly jammed from it and may have blown a case in half sticking another inside of it.
I have no personal experience with it, however years ago in a patrol rifle class it was strognly recommended not to use Wolf steel case in ARs because the lacquer will melt/crystalize in a hot chamber and build up over time. It is supposedly very difficult to clean it out. Might be something to check into.
AK47s were designed with over sized chambers and for steel cased ammoTrue, plus that rifle combines a more conical chamber with a steel case that doesn't anywhere near as much as brass.
A lot less friction going on there.
I'd vote for a serious cleaning of the gas system and see if that (and some decent ammo) solves/improves the problem.
I have had the same problem using Russian ammo with one of my rifles. As mentioned earlier the specs on AR's are too tight. After a few rounds the chamber heats up and the residue in there starts to stick.It's really not a matter of AR chambers being tight or that AK chambers are intentionally designed loose.
The much more drastically tapered design of the 7.62x39 case compared with the 5.56x45 makes it less susceptible to sticking due a dirty chamber. Look at it this way, if AK chambers were purposely produced with oversize (translation: out of spec) chamber dimensions they would've earned a reputation for splitting brass cased 7.62x39. That's never been an issue.
You often hear that the AK is designed for steel cased ammo, but what exactly is meant by that?
It's a combination of a robust extractor, strong initial extraction impulse, a chromed chamber and - most importantly - a well tapered cartridge case.
Brass has traditionally been the cartridge case material of choice for a reason. On ignition it expands against the chamber walls and forms a seal against gasses, then after pressure drops it's properties cause the case to quickly spring back down in size to allow for ease of initial extraction. Steel cases expand slightly, but not enough to seal against gas pressure and don't spring back down in size. This lack of chamber sealing results in that heavily fouled appearance of fired steel cases - plus increased fouling in the rifle's action. This is where the 'Russian 5.56 ammo shoots dirty' observation comes from. It's not so much the powder blend that causes it to dirty up your AR more, it's the cartridge case material.
A higher pressure round using a steel case needs that more sharply tapered design in order to give reliable extraction once heat/fouling come into play. For this reason, no matter what sort of coating material is used steel case extraction issues will inevitably appear MUCH faster with those only slightly tapered walls of the 5.56.
No problems with wolf here...
Continue firing steel cased Wolf and USGI brass cased ammo side by side without chamber maintenance and see which causes extraction issues first.
AR quality details vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but the smoother the chamber the better a 5.56 AR will handle steel cases. The round count may be well within the individual shooter's expectations/requirements, but given enough rounds down the pipe without a chamber cleaning all 5.56 AR's will hit the sticky extraction wall with steel cases long before they would with brass cased ammo.