In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
Looking to buy a modern muzzleloader-suggestions
salzo
Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
Do to a recent change in the hunting season, I am considering buying another muzzleloader. I have a Flintlock, because the state I live in is a Flintlock only. But the state I hunt in, allows the most modern muzzleloaders, with scopes, the works. I dont know anything about these muzzleloaders-inlines, primers, 209, these words are greek to me.
But what I want to get, is the easiest, CLEANEST, with scope, deerslaying modern muzzleloader out there. Ohh yeah, I also dont want to spend much money-can anyone give me a tutorial about these muzleloaders, and suggestions?
Thanks
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
But what I want to get, is the easiest, CLEANEST, with scope, deerslaying modern muzzleloader out there. Ohh yeah, I also dont want to spend much money-can anyone give me a tutorial about these muzleloaders, and suggestions?
Thanks
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Comments
I myself have a TC Encore with a Nikon scope but we are talking about $800 stainles model. I would say spend the extra money for a blue TC Encore in either 209/45 or 209/50 because with a new fore arm you can also get a wide variety of modern rifle barrels for it. Like I said I have the stainless model 209/45 as well as a 22-250 and a 300 Win Mag barrel to boot. TC custom shop, Fox Ridge Outfitters, can make any caliber you want. I am ordering a 225 Winchester for mine.
We also have a nickle Traditions in 209/45 and on it I am putting a 40+ dollar Simmons scope. We will have less than $200 in the whole outfit for one of the kids to use in Ohio.
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you.
Rita Mae Brown
this time of year shops will give you a good deal on black powder guns because they don't want to sit on them until next fall,kind of like this one which i've seen this rifle sell for as low as $129 in the off season
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=28447622
I've owned this rifle and it is a good shooter
or here is one of the package deal I was talking about
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=28447479
remember too that black powder rifle like these do NOT need to be ship thru a dealer they can be ship right to your house ,
Rifles like T/C Encore or Contender must go thru a dealer even when they are sold as a black powder rifle because they will take standard center fire barrels
Both are made in America, are accurate, and easy to clean.
Now if you wanted to get up to the $400 range, get a Savage and shoot smokeless. I have one and I like it very much. Or get the TC Omega or the Knight Disc Elite.
When you spend the extra money you get a better gun. Put the Omega next to the Sidekick and you will be able to tell the Omega is a more costly gun.
Avoid the new Knight Revolution. Knight really laid an egg with this one. They are trying to compete with the Omega. Some Knight executive, who is in charge of this turkey, is going to get his head handed to him on a plate. It is unusual because Knight normally builds great guns.
With any of the guns I recommended you will be able to get 1 1/2 inch groups, all take 209 primers, and are drilled and tapped for scope.
Ding-a-ling
Some people get up and say"Good Morning Lord"
Others get up and say "Good Lord,it's morning.
Reason to own an in-line:
- easy removal of breech plug, cleans like a conventional rifle.
- modern rifle triggers, fully adjustable.
- already drilled and tapped for scope
- modern components used in stocks (composite or laminated)
- stocks are shaped like those of modern rifles
- modern style open sights (hi-viz)
- hotter ignition (209 shotgun primers)
- many are available in stainless steel
We have three Knights, love them all....MK85, T-Bolt, Master Hunter Disc Extreme. Top quality barrels, good triggers and extremely accurate. Not cheap, but if you want quality there's not many that are any better.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=28450466
NRA Life Member ---"A pocket knife, a clean hankey, and a pistol... things I can use." - Ted Nugent
One word of advice for you is DO NOT buy a used muzzle loader. Most people that would sell their guns, not all, just most, don't take proper care of a muzzle loader and they are junk.
the voices in my head don't scare me. it's only when they stop that i get a little nervous.
These are both come with syn. stocks, sling studs, fiber optic sights, 209 primer ignition and are drilled & tapped for scope mounts.
You can use either loose powder or the new pellets, you can also use balls, maxi bullets or sabots.
The 209 primers are shotgun primers and are more moisture resistance than number 11 caps.
I have a NEF Huntsman. Very affordable, well built, accurate, easy to clean.....oh yeah, I love it [8D]
What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is near us whenever we pray to him? Deut 4:7
I have a Knight MK85 that I could part with and give you a good deal on. If you are interested, send me an e-mail.
JC
Opinions are like azzholes, eveyone's got one, and this just happens to be mine!
RandyWakeman
Reged: Dec 17 2002
Posts: 4783
Loc: Plainfield, IL USA The Knight Revolution Review--
#616421 - Wed Dec 22 2004 04:08 AM
The Knight Revolution Review: Just another Revolting Development?
The tested gun was one of the very few truly "new" frontloading rifles for 2004, the Knight Revolution in stainless steel / Realtree Hardwoods configuration. As supplied, it is 8-1/2 pounds on the nose, hanging from my Lyman electric trigger gauge. The barrel measures 26-1/2" from muzzle to breechplug, about a one inch increase over other Knight "26 inch" models. Knight normally has a usable barrel length one half inch less than stated, closer than many manufacturers. In the case of Thompson or other QLA ("false muzzle") rifles, you can also subtract the unrifled portion of the barrel crown-as that can do nothing to spin or push bullets.
The trigger that came with my Revolution was defective, having a distinct two-stage crack to it. It was returned to Knight, and Knight's superior customer service very quickly took care of the problem, the trigger arriving back in my hands in just a few days. The Revolution's trigger is adjustable for break only, not creep. As received, it breaks cleanly at a very acceptable four pounds. It is certainly a good hunting trigger, far better than the horrid Traditions and CVA triggers I've tested recently. However, it suffers by comparison to the outstanding Knight Disc Elite, Disc Extreme, and Wolverine triggers due to the noticeably longer take-up. Whether that is an issue of substance to an individual is subjective, of course. It is clearly a step backward from other Knight product according to my trigger finger. Knight bolt action triggers have been uniformly superior; this effort falls short tested side by side.
The "quick-release" action featured on this rifle is puzzling, reminding me of a waterwheel or some peculiar attempt at perpetual motion. An interesting conversation piece, it is great fun to carry around and ask your friends, "What Do You Think This Is?" Though it is easy to remove, the value of that is lost on me. Knight has billed the Revolution as "Easy To Clean." Well, it is easy to take apart, but easy to clean it certainly is not; easy to get dirty more accurately describes the situation. Knight bolt-action rifles are a dream by comparison.
The Revolution retains the Knight "Red Full Plastic Jacket." In their plunger guns and bolt actions, the red jackets have proved to be a very good idea for field use. It clearly weatherproofs their rifles, eliminates the need for a capper in their bolt actions, and no field capper is required for the Revolution, either. However, the breechplug is the same on the Revolution as it is on the Knight bolt action Disc Extreme and Disc Elite models. In Knight bolt guns, any excess primer residue that cannot make it through the breechplug nipples is spewed onto the bolt action (and a small amount into the bottom of your scope) which is very easy to hand disassemble, soak, and clean-such is not the case with the Revolution.
The same red plastic jacket spewage remains; it should- the very same breechplug, nipple, and red plastic jacket are employed. In the case of the Revolution, it spews inside the receiver, coating the inside completely, and also gurgitating all over the trigger group. It leaks out a bit beneath the receiver, and also out the rear flap that closes in concert with the action when you lock and prime the action. All this just means more clean-up, and runs counter to the ads that brag, "Easy To Clean." Easy to get filthy dirty, it achieves.
After firing this gun, you must physically depress a little pedal (or foot) that protrudes from beneath the pistol grip to open up the action and then reprime. This is counter-intuitive to me; can you imagine a lever action rifle (such as the Marlin 336) where you have to push a button just to cycle the action? I couldn't, but apparently somebody could. A simple spring and detent set-up just makes far more sense.
At the range, I found the Revolution to be in an accuracy class similar to several Extreme models. While Knight still brags about their 2-1/2" accuracy guarantee; I have yet to test a Knight that will not easily better that. The Revolution's three-shot groups size at 100 yards was in the area of 1-3/4 to 2" with Barnes 245 gr. Spitfires, available as Knight "Ultimate Slam Series" SBT bullets with sabots, and the Revolution was able to keep 348 grain Powerbelts in the same accuracy genre as well. While certainly adequate hunting accuracy, the Revolution falls far short of the blazing accuracy level of their own Knight Disc Elite-which remains at the very top of the many muzzleloaders I've tested in the tack-driving department.
The Revolution's ramrod is adequate, no different from other Knight rifles in this regard-the factory option "PowerRod" remaining as a big step up. The factory Williams fire sights are backwards to my eyes, red against the face-but Knight will change them out if you prefer green next to your eyes, and red at the muzzle as I do.
Handling wise, I felt the Revolution to be both heavy and nose-heavy, and I found the cross-bolt safety slow and noisy compared to the quick to flick thumb safety on the Knight Disc Elite. The buttstock feels a bit short and stubby; and sure enough-the Revolution has at least a full half inch shorter length of pull than the Disc Elite. The Revolution also lacks the cheek-piece found on the Disc Elite, something that I wish they had not removed. The safety is reversible, though, and it seems that this and the buttstock were perhaps aimed at ambidextrous appeal.
I am a fan of Knight Rifles in general, admire their barrel quality, and (until now) exceptionally good triggers. In this case, with a blank sheet of paper in front of them, I am perplexed at what exactly was attempted to be accomplished here. For a $500 gun, it can only be described as a disappointment in my eyes. Compared to the plethora of other options available to today's muzzleloading enthusiast, I am forced to say, "Start the Revolution Without Me."
Randy Wakeman
Randy Wakeman is a gun writer who specializes in inline muzzleloaders. He gets ahold of an inline and does extensive range work with it and then does reviews. I have known him for 2 years and I know him to be knowledgable and objective.
By the way, normally he loves Knight rifles. His most accurate inline ever is the Knight Disc Extreme, and he gets 5/8 inch groups with it.
I am surprised to hear that the Revolution is selling so well.--A.G.
To each his own. I find it's a dang good gun. He didn't really list any problems there.
the voices in my head don't scare me. it's only when they stop that i get a little nervous.
Im basically thinking about a gun that I am going to shoot a few times a year, so that I feel confident when I use it during an antlerless muzzleloader season-thats why I was thinking cheap-but someone mentioned the encore, I have been thinking about purchasing one, and I forgot about the fact that the encore is also a muzzleloader. Maybe that is what Ill get-or maybe not, I have a little time to think about it.
Idsman75- I own, and hunt with a flintlock during the "flintlock only" season in PA. That is the extent of my experience with muzzleloaders. The main reason I am looking for something else, is because I prefer shooting with a scope, and will always choose a scoped gun over a non scoped gun when it is "legal" to do so. Since the state I will be hunting allows scoped muzzleloaders, I want to use something other than the non scoped flintlock that I presently own. And I have heard that the modern guns are cleaner,and easier(not so much time spent cleaning the darn thing). Time has become a commodity these days, heck I havent been able to hunt the flintlock season the past two years. So basically I am looking for an "easier" way to go.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Best of all,..NON CORROSIVE powders and easy clean up. remove the bolt, loosen the front action screw, remove breech plug and swab it with hoppes. Super fast, super easy, super accurate.
While testing loads the first day I worked with it,..I loaded 47gr IMR4227 and imediately got a .978" 3shot at 100yds. Gotta love the savage 10ML
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
Best of all,..NON CORROSIVE powders and easy clean up.
What is that exACTLY? aRE YOU REFERING TO "PYRODEX", OR SOMETHING ELSE ALL TOGETHER?
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
If it isnt "pyrodex", but something else, what other muzzleladers shoot this smokeless powder-this is a preety important aspect of my search. If I could be shooting non corrosive powder-that is a big plus-is savage the only muzzleloader that shoots smokeless/non corrosive???
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
the T/C encore comes in 50 cal , or you can get the new G2 Contender in a 45cal , I have both and both shoot pretty darn good [:D]
Like I said,..I get similar velocity to the 150gr of pyrodex, with only 47gr of IMR4227 and a 240/250gr XTP and win 209 primers. It is the cats meow!!
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
The Savage is a great gun, I get 1 1/2 inch groups.
Some states prohibit smokeless.
the voices in my head don't scare me. it's only when they stop that i get a little nervous.
Sal, I would say Austin & Halleck, but since you are a cheapskate[}:)] I will suggest TC Black Diamond. Love mine, does it all for only around $250.
You at least need to check them out. If you decide you want the very best,this is where to go.http://austinhalleck.com/