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9mm + P+

RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,637 ✭✭✭
edited July 2003 in General Discussion
What guns do feel this is safe to shoot in?
And what is the benefit of this ammo?
Isn't over penetration a bad thing?
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=9977053

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    LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    That's the house load for my Glock 17 & 26. 115 grain +P+

    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
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    rldowns3rldowns3 Member Posts: 6,096
    edited November -1
    I might go +P on a hollowpoint but I wouldn't do so on a ball round if it were for self defense. For target shooting, I'd go +P on the ball round if I wanted to spend too much money for punching holes in paper or cans.

    Annoy a liberal by working hard and being happy.

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    spectre7spectre7 Member Posts: 965 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    While the over-penetration is an issue with the 9mm, I have heard arguments indicating that the added velocity goes toward increasing the effect of hydrostatic shock. Because the human body is mostly water, a projectile of reasonable weight traveling in excess of 1350 fps, should create a very nasty shock-wave when it makes it's way through the tissue. So, basically, with the added velocity your getting alot more trauma from the wound, regardless of the over-penetration. Of course, there is still the issue of where the bullet goes when it exits the target.

    The above is basically a summary of an article on defense rounds contained in the May 2002 Issue of Combat Handguns (I think, don't have the magazine in my hands right now, but I re-read the article not too long ago.)
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    SilverBoxSilverBox Member Posts: 2,347
    edited November -1
    You guys are gonna make Darrell roll over in his grave with all this talk...
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    RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,637 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Data for this round.
    http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm

    sniper1.gif Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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    offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    +P+ is or was supposedly a law-enforcement-only load (we can have+P, but not +P+, theoretically), and since LEOs buy many different brands of handguns to carry, you may be sure these loads are well under proof pressure -- that is, +P+ is safe to shoot in any modern well-maintained gun from Beretta to Glock to what-have-you. If in doubt, do not use it. You can approximate +P+ pressures easily by buying CorBon, which manages to create loads at lower pressures that approach +P+ velocity for civilians.

    Potential advantages include more assured mushrooming of HPs and increased shock cavity, but as mentioned above there is controversy about the advantage of a "light and fast" bullet over a heavier slower one. Still, the highest rated 9mm for stopping power is a high-velocity 115-gr. load, even though the round comes in heavier bullet weights like the formerly popular 147-gr. Nyclad. I leave that to those who like to shoot the 9, nowadays.

    T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."

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    Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,483 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    I bought some Austrian military surplus 9mm. It is sub-gun ammo and supposed to be +P+. I called Ruger and the lady I talked to said it would be fine to shoot it in my P85. She said I should change the recoil spring once in a while if it gets a steady diet of this stuff.

    81st FA BN WWII...Thanks Dad
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    RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,637 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Oh, I wasn't worried about Rugers.
    They can handle +P+P+P+P+P+P+P+P+P+ ammo. [:D][:D][:D][:D][8D]

    sniper1.gif Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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    paboogerpabooger Member Posts: 13,953
    edited November -1
    My Ruger P95 is loaded with plus-P

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    SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    taurus for one says not to shoot +p loads in their guns.any quality firearm should allow the use of +p.i know sig and hk do

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST e-mail:WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
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    Nomad00Nomad00 Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The only time I've seen +P+ advertised was for use in a Glock.

    420
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    NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think offeror summed it up pretty well.The Federal 135 GR Personal defence round is used by one LEO Agency I know of that carry Sig P-228 9MM's.And is supposed to be becomeing very popular among agency's that carry the 9MM.

    Rugster


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    kingjoeykingjoey Member Posts: 8,636
    edited November -1
    I would leave the +P+ stuff to the subguns, they really like that super-hot stuff. My .02[;)]

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    shooter4shooter4 Member Posts: 4,457
    edited November -1
    Why bother, get a .45 [:D]
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    chunkstylechunkstyle Member Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Beretta says in its manual for the M92 (M9 the military designation) that +P, +P+, or submachine gun ammo is not recommended "on an extended basis". That said, I have shot well over 2000 rounds of milsurp subgun ammo through it with no ill effects. This, in addition to at least 5000 rounds of other 9mm ammo, all perfectly functional.

    "I think life should be more like TV. All of life's problems ought to be solved within 30 minutes with simple homilies. All our desires should be instantly gratified. Women should always wear tight clothes, and men should carry powerful handguns. Of course, if life was really like that, what would we watch on TV?" -Calvin and Hobbes
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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    I've fired +P+ ammo in my Colt AR-15 9mm LE carbines. With the 10" barrel the flash is very impressive! From the 16" it is a lot less noticeable, although still more than with standard 9mm. I don't see much application for these +P+ rounds in most home defense situaltions; most people are already concerned with over penetration from regular 9mm loads. Nearly all manufacturers recommend against extensive use of +P+ loadings in their handguns. If you want a hot .38 Special then buy a .357 Magnum. If you want a hot 9mm then buy a .40 S&W instead. Beyond that the .45 and 10mm pistols are readily available.

    Mark T. Christian
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    offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mark and chunkstyle are both right in pointing out that there's no real need for extended shooting with +P+ and most manufacturers don't recommend it as a steady diet. Everybody agrees it will certainly wear your gun faster. +P+ may be loaded in your carry gun (or home gun) for defense, but need be used in practice only to assure your confidence and its reliability in your gun. Most guns will stand up to a bit of practice with it, but these hot loads are not meant for constant use in most handguns. In fact, a heavier recoil spring, and shock buffers, become an issue at the hot end of the scale, on some guns.

    Obviously, Beretta has that old issue of a few breaks in their "open slide" design, so I'm not too surprised to hear their manual still contains some mention of limited use, but I think the former weaknesses have been bred out of the newer guns.

    The ammo manufacturers perceived a need for +P+, for whatever reason, and the powers that be decided to restrict it to LEO-only status. If it helps a cop penetrate a windshielf, fine. But some people maintain that hi-vel, light bullet ammo can be LESS penetrative, don't they? Something about quicker energy dump stopping the bullet inside the perp? I never was very convinced by that line of thinking, certainly not as a "sure thing."

    Anyhow, my personal preference is made known in my choice of handguns. I don't own any 9mms any more except for granddad's Mauser .32 -- only 10mm and .45, and now, if I crave additional penetration, the 7.62x25. But I must admit to owning some of Corbon's fastest +P ammo for both my 10 and my .45.

    T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."

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    concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can somebody please explain to me the difference between standard 9mm ammo, +P and +P+?

    Thanks,
    G36



    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
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    spectre7spectre7 Member Posts: 965 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Standard ammunition is loaded by a manufacturer with X grains of powder to produce Y pressure and Z velocity.

    +P ammunition is loaded with X + something powder to produce Y plus something pressure and Z plus something velocity.

    +P+ is what you get when something is supposedly loaded hotter than +P, but I'm fairly certain that there is no real standard for +P+, it's just something put on a label when they consider it to be hotter than +P.

    I don't think there is any sort of set scale by which all brands of ammunition must abide to be Standard, +P, or +P+, so the exact numbers will vary by brand. That's my understanding anyway, and if it's in error, I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will correct me.
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    concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks!

    G36


    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
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